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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Wait it out if you can.

    Who knows? You may love the '11 Ody. Early mileage reports are promising.

    You may not like it, though. Some 2011 Sienna shoppers are getting 2010s for one reason or another, mostly the death of the big 8th seat, some because pricing is higher.

    The 2011 Honda may arrive with higher prices, too, and we haven't even seen the real interior. Plus who knows how they will package it.
  • autowriteautowrite Posts: 226
    Even though I was planning to keep my 2002 Odyssey for 600,000 miles, if possible I was admiring the Siennna because it had no transmission problems. NOW, the Sieena has caused deaths with the accelerator (probably drive my wire) problems. It's back to the Odyssey. A fellow on ODYCLUB.com has just bought a 2006 Odyssey even though his 2002 had transmission problems because he liked many other things about it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I haven't seen any deaths from sudden acceleration in Siennas. Source?
  • I figure there will definitely be a window in which I'll know more about the 2011 but still be able to get a 2010 on the cheap. In fact dealer incentives will probably only increase as it gets closer and closer to the release date on the new ones. So, I think your advice to wait is very sound.

    The good news is that while my 2004 Mitsu Endeavor has 90,000+ miles on it, I have never had any serious problems at all and actually like driving it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yep, just be flexible on the color, perhaps. Selection may be an issue if you wait too long.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not much to that story, at least not yet.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    FWIW, search the NHTSA ODI and you'll find the same complaints for the Ody.

    Here's one, ODI ID Number 10303067:

    TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 HONDA ODYSSEY. WHILE STOPPED AT A RED LIGHT SHE ATTEMPTED TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY TO ALLOW A POLICE VEHICLE TO PASS, THE ENGINE BEGAN TO IDLE ROUGHLY AND THE VEHICLE PROCEEDED TO ACCELERATE. SHE THEN ATTEMPTED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL VERY HARD BEFORE STOPPING THE VEHICLE. ON A SEPARATE OCCASION, WHILE EXITING THE HIGHWAY, SHE BEGAN DEPRESSING THE BRAKE TO MERGE OUT OF TRAFFIC AT SPEEDS OF LESS THAN 15 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE AT FULL SPEED. THE CONTACT CONTINUED TO APPLY EXTREME PRESSURE TO THE BRAKES AND THE VEHICLE PROCEEDED OVER THE MEDIAN ONTO THE GRASS. SHE WAS ABLE TO STOP THE VEHICLE AND AVOID A COLLISION. THE DEALER REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION SENSOR AND ADVISED THE FAILURE SHOULD NOT OCCUR AGAIN. THERE WERE NO FURTHER INCIDENTS THEREAFTER. THE VIN WAS NOT AVAILABLE. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE UNDER 30,000.

    Sorry for the CAPS, that's copied from their site.

    That's 2 seperate occasions on the same van. This was for a 2007 model year (my Sienna is also an 07).

    From ODI ID Number : 10237557:

    ON 12/26/07, I HAD A VERY BAD ACCIDENT HITTING 2 CARS AND ALL OF THE AIR BAGS IN OUR NEW 07 HONDA ODYSSEY DEPLOYED. MY WIFE WAS IN THE CAR, I WAS DRIVING AND WE WERE EXITING THE HIGHWAY WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL ON AND TURNED ONTO THE OFF RAMP WHEN THE BRAKES COMPLETELY FAILED; I STEPPED ON THE BRAKES REPEATEDLY AND THEY WERE SO SOFT THEY WENT COMPLETELY TO THE FLOOR BOARD AND THE CAR WOULD NOT STOP AND THE CRUISE CONTROL WOULD NOT TURN OFF. THE RAMP WAS ABOUT 100 YARDS LONG, SO WE WOULD HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO STOP IF THE BRAKES WORKED. THE RAMP WAS UPHILL AND BECAUSE THE CRUISE CONTROL DID NOT GO OFF, THE CAR STARTED TO ACCELERATE AND WE WERE GOING FASTER AND FASTER UP THE OFF RAMP. ...

    I stopped searching, it was too depressing. I bet there are more.

    So, does this mean Odyssey throttles are also all bad?

    Or, more likely, are not-so-common complaints like this likely operator error?

    Whatever you believe, keep in mind the 2011 Sienna now has the brake-throttle override, so it won't happen to new Sienna.

    Does the Ody have that as well? If not we may continue to see more of these from Honda, but not from 2011+ Siennas.

    By the way, I realize Honda sells more Odys, but overall NHTSA has 206 complaints for 2007 Odys and only 62 for 2007 Siennas. In the Ody the recurring theme seemed to be failing brakes, yikes.

    Go here and click Search Complaints:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Early on I said it: let's wait for the investigation before jumping to conclusions.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589090,00.html

    http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-ac- celeration

    Shame on anyone who believed this story, including a few people here.

    Read the 2nd article, especially the updates:

    * his Prius does have brakes that override the throttle
    * the guy is 3/4rs of a million dollars in debt
    * he still owes $19,000 to Toyota
    * Sikes has a history of items in his possession being stolen and him filing for insurance claims
    * Sikes owned and operated a web site called AdultSwingLife.com.
    * There's also a report from KTLX with a neighbor stating he may have been involved in the porn industry.

    This is HILARIOUS!

    If you believed this guy, shame on you! LOL
  • hogan773hogan773 Posts: 255
    "The 2011 Honda may arrive with higher prices, too, and we haven't even seen the real interior. Plus who knows how they will package it."

    Umm, I think "may" may be too soft a word. Chances that they reduce the price of the van on an apples to apples basis? Doubtful.

    Also don't forget that you can get 2500 BELOW INVOICE right now. Chances are pretty high that dealers will be trying to sell their awesome new 2011s at closer to sticker, but certainly OVER invoice. I'd say its pretty much assured you'll be paying MORE for a 2011 than a 2010 due to those 2 factors. Whether that premium is warranted depends on the features of the 2011 and is a personal decision for each buyer.
  • autowriteautowrite Posts: 226
    I think the 2011 Odyssey will be the better choice. It will proabably have a choice of either a 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder and a six speed stardard.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If they didn't put the 2.4L in the Crosstour (which is notably lighter than the Odyssey), I wouldn't look for it in the next Van. Frankly, 160 lb-ft isn't enough for a 4,500lb van.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We can't know for sure.

    When Subaru launched the 2009 Forester, prices dropped $800-1200 or so.

    Sales went way up. They basically built-in discounts and incentives that they had in prior years.

    It boosted sales, and even boosted residuals, win-win.

    The minivan segment is having a hard time so who knows what Honda will do.
  • hogan773hogan773 Posts: 255
    Well, Toyota just boosted prices by about $2000 on the new Siennas......and that is a minivan too, and its not as if Toyota has no marketing hurdles right now......don't be fooled by the press release that says the new Sienna comes at a "cheaper price" than the 2010s - yes, if you compare a new 4 cylinder with a 6 cyl on the 2010s......to me that's not an apples to apples comparison :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, a sneaky way to lower the base price in those ads and such. At the same time, though, they did add content. My LE has a backup camera standard now, for instance. That and the 6 speed automatic. But it's a couple grand more than I paid.

    They added 0% as of March 1, not sure if that includes the Sienna or not.

    They definitely built-in some price padding for discounts later, though.

    Honda stands to gain market share if they can keep a lid on pricing.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    2007-08 Odys and Elements are now under recall to address "softness" in the brake pedal feel. For more, see:
    http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/maintenance/OdyElement_recall.asp
  • hogan773hogan773 Posts: 255
    Yes they simplified all the options packages and made more stuff "standard" but at a higher price. Not saying they are being jerks or underhanded or anything, but its just a fact that the price DID go up!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    After looking at the NHTSA complaints page (while searching for cases of UA), I'm not surprised at all. Most of the complaints were brake-related.

    It's good, though, it means those problems are being addressed. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, but what you could do is step down one model.

    In other words, if you wanted an XLE before, you may get along just find with an LE now. Actually the LE gets a backup cam that required Navi on the old XLE, so you could even end up with a better package.

    3 zone climate control goes even on the base model now, before I think the XLE had dual? Anyone know?

    Depends on what you want, I suppose.
  • hogan773hogan773 Posts: 255
    Yeah but you're talking about little stuff. The major things like power doors, sunroof, etc are still generally grouped the same - now similar to the Odysseys. It was easy in the 2010 Sienna to just add the power doors thru an option package that wasn't prohibitively expensive.

    One reason I like Honda vs Sienna - Honda doesn't put all that FUGLY wood trim all over their upper models. I've got many other reasons after driving the 2011 Sienna and 2010 Odyssey. Odyssey ain't perfect but for me it checked more YES boxes and hardly any NO boxes, while the Sienna had quite a few NO boxes....
  • m3_petem3_pete Posts: 1
    I test drove an 07 Ody last month and noticed that the brake pedal traveled about 4 inches before the brakes began to catch. I even said something to the salesman about having to depress the brakes farther than in any car I've driven in recent memory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm not a fan of plood either, but the alternative is fake metal, pluminum?

    Doesn't bother me like it bothers you.
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Posts: 144
    Honda is recalling only 2007 and 08 models, correct? What about 2009 and 2010 models? Was something changed for the newer models, or have they just not been on the road long enough to develop the braking problem?

    In other words, how do people who buy a new one know that this won't happen to them in a year or two? :confuse:
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,816
    Perhaps they are using a modified stability control system that doesn't have the same issue??
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Posts: 144
    Out of curiosity, I checked for any recalls on 2009 or 2010 Odysseys and found there is a recall on a small number of 2009 models for brake problems. It states that a hose was installed incorrectly and should be replaced.

    All this stuff makes you want to buy a bicycle instead! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Automobiles are so complex, there are so many things that can go wrong. It's amazing, really, how reliable they are in general.

    Keep in mind these problems are typically observed on a tiny percentage of cars and then they are addressed.

    Imagine if you owned the one and only, say, Bugatti Veyron. You would have to find any flaws yourself.

    Then again, being in a Bugatti wouldn't be so bad. :D
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Posts: 144
    Oh, I agree completely! I wonder about the mechanics who have to work on these complicated machines. People seem to think they should be able to wave a magic wand and make it all work perfectly.

    Now, about the Bugatti.... I think I will stick with something tamer. I'm much more of a minivan grandma than I am a sports car person. You should read some of P.J. O'Rourke's old pieces he wrote about cars. Funny stuff.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    How about a Renault F1 minivan, then? Remember that concept?

    image
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,540
    edited March 2010
    Cool, but the front half of the canoe rack fell off. :P

    Steve, visiting host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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