Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

indy93

Check the Club! 75% fit/finish, paint, rattles, grinding at 10mph, wind noise (not cowling assembly) EXL's.

macakava

"For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

 

The above is where the use of premium results in the advertised 230HP.

 

From a marketing/sales perspective, Toyota has to tread a careful path to not allow that fact to be negative in the minds of customers.

impact01

You write: "From a marketing/sales perspective, Toyota has to tread a careful path to not allow that fact to be negative in the minds of customers."

 

Prove your assertion. The problem is you have no evidence to back up this claim. While I would've bought the Sienna whether it made 225 or 235 HP, it will be nice for you to base your arguments on facts. Results of instrumented tests using both grades of fuel would be a nice evidence for starters. If you can't, then, don't keep repeating inaccuracies.

greg_y

You won't convince this person. They like Honda. I have used both premium and regular fuel in my Sienna. I cannot tell a difference in power or in gas mileage.

 

The funny thing is, most people will rarely rev an engine over 3,500 rpms. This around where the Sienna makes its peak torque. All this talk of hp at the redline makes very little difference in everyday driving. I will occasionally rev the van to the redline. I am not wanting for more power.

 

My own dear, misguided (just kidding mom) mother purchased a 2005 Odyssey EX no L. I have driven it and my father has driven the Sienna. We cannot really discern a difference in power between the two. Granted, I did not take out his new van and flog the engine within an inch of its life but I don't drive my Sienna that way either.

 

They bought it out of brand loyalty to Honda. They have owned Hondas since the late 1980s. This is not trivial. Honda makes a fine car (van, SUV etc). However, Toyotas are also fine cars.

stever

The way I read it, the Sienna generates 230 hp on regular gas.

 

Steve, Host

macakava

If we surf the web, you can find other links where premium gas is recommended for the Sienna. One example is,

 

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national?srv=parser&act=display&a- mp;tf=/features/mvp/toyota/sienna/sienna_overview.tmpl

sportymonk

In all actuality, I don't believe most people can tell the difference in horsepower. It needs to be remembered that torque is a measure that relates more toward acceleration and horsepower is more related to speed. What most people think of as "feeling the power" is the torque. How much torque AND where it maximizes at are important too but most forget that. A vehicle that has low end torque will have a lot of "get up and go" but will take time reaching top speed whereas a vehicle with higher torque may not have a lot initial acceleration but will continue accelerating faster at higher speeds and is sometimes described as "keeps going forever".

 

Again, in day to day driving most won't be able to tell the difference 10 hp, what they will feel is the amount of torque and its peak on the torque curve.

macakava

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national?srv=parser&act=display&a- mp;tf=/features/mvp/toyota/sienna/sienna_overview.tmpl

 

Here is an extract from the above weblink of cars.com:

 

"As of

 the 2002 model year, the Odyssey doesn’t call for premium fuel, as it had from 1999 – 2001. For the Sienna, premium gasoline (91 octane) is recommended. It’s not required, so no damage should result from running on 87 octane gas, but all the manufacturer’s ratings — such as engine output, fuel economy and emissions — are based on the more expensive fuel. Regular gas is likely to reduce power and possibly mileage — though probably not enough to nullify the lower fuel cost."

stever

Good link you found. Now will someone email Toyota and see if they dispute that? Seems a bit deceptive not to mention it in their specs. Nor does it seem to jive with the EPA's 2005 Fuel Economy Guide (link).

 

You should be able to extrapolate what type of gas the EPA used in coming up with the Sienna's mpg figures (even though there's nothing in the notes to indicate that premium was used). All you need to do is compare the Sienna's annual fuel cost ($1,285) with the method used to calculate it:

 

"The estimates are based on the assumptions that you travel 15,000 miles per year (55% under city driving conditions and 45% under highway conditions) and that fuel costs $1.80/gallon for regular unleaded gasoline and $1.95/gallon for premium."

 

I'll leave that exercise to the math majors since I have enough trouble with my checkbook.

 

Steve, Host

cccompson

Your link is hardly authoritative, mackakava, and is the most slender of reeds to support the blanket (mis)statements you have repeatedly made on this topic.

lastwraith

Does it even matter?

 

Do you care about 10 increased HP at 4000 rpm when your engine will almost never be there anyway with an auto tranny? Does macakava seriously think that 91 vs 87 octane is going to magically give him an extra 10 ft/lbs torque at any usable RPM range? Or that he would even notice/care if it did?!?!

 

Even if the recorded HP figures are boosted by higher octane fuel (and it wouldn't be by much anyway) minivan drivers are going to be more concerned about TORQUE since the purpose of their vehicle is to people move, not see how fast they can max out their speedometer.

 

And seriously, the "car guy" usage is too funny. So lame.

greg_y

"..likely to reduce power and possibly mileage..." Sounds authoritative to me. ;-) He also states that the Sienna's peak torque at 3,600 rpm may offset the Odysseys (2004, I won't mix an match model years to suite my preference as some posters will) horsepower advantage. Why didn't you mention that.

davenow

good point.

macakava

Let the facts speak for themselves. No need to discuss further.

 

The doubters will always rationalize their beliefs.

 

Seasons greetings to you and yours!

jsmath5

Best Minivan 2005 Honda Odyssey - Kiplingers magazine Best in Class 2005.

 

Give it to me Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, give it to the king, back on it's throne..... The 2005 Honda Odyssey, a good idea made better!!

rorr

rah.....rah.....rah.....

rorr

"The doubters will always rationalize their beliefs."

 

Yes.

 

But that applies to both sides of any issue.

 

Howabout a good 'ol fashioned "MERRY CHRISTMAS"!!!!

 

(and if I offended anyone by using the word "Christmas"........get over it.)

macakava

Randy,

 

No Offense, Mon!

 

You should be well settled in W-S by now!

macakava

The facts and accollades indeed speak for themselves!

jsmath5

Hon-rah.....Hon-rah.....Hon-rah

 

Num-ba von!!!!!!!!!

 

Sank-you

carzzz

About a month ago, i read that the peak torque of odyssey is between 3500 to 5000 rmp, from honda.ca, but they changed it recently! Therefore, the 250 lb/ft of torque (max torque) has developed earlier than sienna!

nwng

But when you are driving your lovely but nagging other half and the precious but annoying offsprings, are you really contemplating if you have reach the torque peak yet?

saustin

Hi,

   With Winters as crazy as we have up here in Connecticut am i also crazy to go with the new Odyssey that does NOT have all wheel drive ?

Have bought 5 subaru's but thought we might take the plunge on a van. Checked out the Sienna but sticker shock was significant 40k, not that the 32k for the Odyssey is much better especially if we can't get up the driveway in the snow.

Would love to hear from folks that might have an opinion in snow conditions. None of the dealers in the area will commit to the odyssey doing well and chant the "it is a totally redesigned car"

mantra. Am also hoping that it really could get the 28 mpg as advertised. Kid's really loved going for a test drive in it but need the subaru like handling.

Thanks, Steve.

isellhondas

MERRY CHRISTMAS !

 

We can forget the nitpicking and bickering for awhile?

isellhondas

And it didn't take long...

lastwraith

True, but a simple "Merry Christmas too" would have sufficed.

ewt

Merry Christmas to you too (and a big ignore to the PC police), although Santa's sleigh may get delayed if he has a flat with the new PAX sleigh runners he installed this year.

stever

Season's Greetings :-)

 

Steve, Host

impact01

Steve, per the EPA guide you posted:

 

15000 miles a year with 55% city, 45% highway

 

Average mileage/gallon = 0.45x26+0.55x19 = 22.15

 

No of Gallons Gas = 15000/22.15 = 677.20

 

With regular @1.8/gallon Cost= $1218.96

With Premium @1.95 cost = $1320.54

 

I don't know where they get the $1285 from except that it is 5% more than regular cost and 2.7% less than premium cost. I am not sure what this means either, may be they recommend 89 grade secretly? LOL. But then again, I might have screwed up my math.

 

 

WISH YOU ALL A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS

stever

LOL, that's exactly why I didn't try the exercise - my numbers never match what they should.

 

Thanks for a premium effort!

 

Steve, Host

bparker

Also, I think the VCM is not a well tested engine in the USA. It seeks to me, that six cylinders have equal gasoline explosion stress. I feel the stress is unequal when only three cylinders are experiencing the gasoline explosions.

I always read that equal cylinder pressure was more desired, even if low, over a mixture of "high' and "low".

Could you could support your family better if you were "iselltoyotos"

ewt

"Best Minivan 2005 Honda Odyssey - Kiplingers magazine Best in Class 2005.

  

Give it to me Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, give it to the king, back on it's throne..... The 2005 Honda Odyssey, a good idea made better!!"

 

It's so good that Honda is going GM and offering cut-rate financing on it a couple of months after its release! Funny, I don't remember Toyota doing that with the Sienna......

sportymonk

My question is, "Is it the same three cylinders everytime or does the system rotate them for even wear?"

 

BTW Yes he probably could support his family better with Toyota since they charge more and make more profit.

isellhondas

Actually, it has been very well tested and I would just happen to guess that Honda's engineers have this figured out better than your theory.

 

And, thank you for your concern but I support my family quite well.

dulnev

We've been test driving and researching Sienna XLE Limited with NAV/RES and Ody Touring with NAV/RES to death and have finally settled on the Ody.

 

Sienna XLE Ltd with NAV/RES is a popular model, but can be had for about $500-$1000 over invoice (other models can be bought for as little as $200 over invoice). But Ody can now be found at $1,000-$1,500 over invoice as well, which makes it even cheaper than Sienna. All in all, price is basically not an issue at all; they are too close in price to make it a factor.

 

Here are some reasons why we chose Ody:

 

1. Sienna XLE Ltd not having memory seats/mirrors is one of the dumbest things on a $35K vehicle that has every possible gadget imaginable.

 

2. We felt the Sienna looked and felt "cheaper" inside than Ody, but that's just a subjective opinion.

 

3. We liked the power and handling of the Ody much better than the "American-soft" of the Sienna. We have a Mazda MPV right now, which handles like a car, and Sienna was too much of a step down from the MPV in handling.

 

4. The Ody's Navigation system is light years ahead of Sienna's and we liked Ody's DVD RES a lot better as well.

 

5. Love Ody's storage options a lot more than Sienna's. I absolutelly hate the fact NONE of Sienna's storage compartments have any sort of felt or rubber lining. This would make everything hard in them rattle like crazy! To be fair, I don't remember how this is handled on Ody since we have looked at Sienna last.

 

6. We felt that the 3rd row of seats was easier to fold on the Ody.

 

7. Ody's second row "sliding" seat was easier to operate than Sienna's, but it was still a joke compared to the MPV's one-touch slide design. If you still features from other vans, why not steal one of the best???

 

That's the main points...

taruky

I don't know how anyone with a straight face can write that the Sienna interior feels "cheaper" than the Oddysey's. One feels like a Lexus, the other like a Civic. I cannot comment on road performance as I have only test driven the Sienna to date, but I have sat in the Oddysey and can say without hesitation that the Sienna interior is far more elegant and substantial. Honda interiors generally are cheap looking. Even the MDX has a cheap look to its interior.

danrudy

Dulnev,

I posted this on the other board as well so excuse the redundancy.

I am in market for od with nav/dvd.

Can you refer me to on eo f the places you mentioned that are selling for 1000 over invoice?..I am ready to do deal now and will ship car to florida...thanks in advance...have a good holiday

dan

digiprod

The memory seats you are so excited about: I think it is dumb for a vehicle priced at 40 K to have memory that ONLY REMEMBERS the seats, not the power pedels or power mirrors, or didn't yoi notice. What good is this when the second drive still needs to adjust these?

 

The NAV is not light years ahead, they are quite similar.

 

You have storage option in the ODDLY as it HAS NO spare tire at all and has PAX tires that few want. See PAX forum.

 

The ODDLY has third row seats that also have plastic latches that break easy. The one I drove one broke when we tried folding the seat and the other was already broken. Sienna seats are made better.

 

Sienna second row is also one touch. Sienna has a nice interior, laser cruise control, better moonroof, better seat heaters, power passenger and driver seats, the Sienna has windows in the rear that OPEN, sunshades in all rows, a real roof rack, 115 volt power in two rows, better sounding stereo.

 

To each his own , but I thought I would point out some facts I learned. I bought a Toyota Sienna XLE Limited for same price as ODDLY. The discounts you are now seeing are probably caused by people finding out about PAX and running to Toyota!!!

 

Stephen A

colemanr7

Steve,

 

You really cannot compare the price on an AWD Sienna against a front-drive Odyssey. That's apples and oranges.

 

That said, any AWD will win in snow hands-down against any FWD vehicle. I do not own the AWD Sienna (ours is FWD) but I did own an AWD Camry. It was awesome in snow but overkill here in TN. No tire-driven equipment will do well on ice.

 

If price is an issue (it is for me) and you need snow-mobility then consider an AWD Sienna LE with the safety package (side air bags, etc). I'm sure that you can get one for less than $30k. The gas mileage will suffer compared to the FWD.

 

Good luck with your decision making.

isellhondas

I usually don't respond to posts like this one...but...

 

The Sienna is a great alternative to the Odyssey. It's, by the way...ODYSSEY, and not "ODDLY".

 

And you are correct, to each his own.

 

I have to wonder why, even after buying a Sienna you continue to rag on the Odyssey.

 

You can think what you will, but the NAV system in the Odyssey is far more advanced than the Sienna. I think most would agree.

 

I have yet to see EVEN ONE Odyssey with a broken seat latch and neither has our service dept. I asked. Even the much abused Odyssey on display at our recent Auto Show didn't have broken latches in spite of that seat being folded literally thousands of times.

 

Laser cruise control? Yes, but how many people care? I know I sure wouldn't.

 

As far as the other items you deem to be "better", well, that's where your "to each his own" statement would make any sense.

 

Others feel much differently than you do, even on your strong distate toward PAX tires.

 

I do hope you enjoy your Sienna. It's a nice van.

autoguy1

If every salesmen were like you, I'd be in heaven. You're one of the few who look at both sides of the story and judge unbiasedly.

 

I do feel quite confused as to how the Sienna's interior is cheaper than the one of the Odyssey. How can that be? But that's their opionion.

 

However, the MDX's interior is so-so. A score 8.5/10. Just IMO.

whsu

Earlier this month brought a Sienna XLE AWD in Danbury Connecticut. The van is excellent. Very comfortable, lots of room and excellent fit and finish. I am sure that the Honda is a fine van as well. But my family had brought 4 Toyota in the pass (Camryx2 , Highlander, Hiace) over 250000 between them and no problems.

ody100

It is so fun to read the posts here. I am going to buy an odyssey. I was seriously considering sienna.

 

That being said, I'd like to point out some people here are so biased. I think sienna interior is much luxious than odyssey on high end models. The reasons I picked odyssey over sienna are:

1. exterior look

2. hesitation on sienna if you do a sudden acceleration.

3. Collegues who bought odyssey before like their vans.

w210

For those shopping for the top models between the Sienna and Odyssey in Canada, it's a no brainer the Odyssey Touring wins unless AWD is a must.

 

Why?

 

1. Odyssey Touring has NAV, Sienna doesn't have NAV in Canada even when you pick the CAD$50k+ model!

 

2. Odyssey Touring in Canada has regular tires without TPMS which means you can put on winter tires or your regular runflats. No PAX!

salsa

Whew, I just read through the past 800 posts in this thread. There is a lot of info here. I saw a lot of talk about PAX rft and octane and option packages, and vent windows, and third row leg room, and third row sun shades, but nobody mentioned Bluetooth mobile phones. Does the Ody have one? Does the one in the Sienna integrate into the NAV system, showing caller ID info and allowing voice dialing, etc? Does anybody here care about bluetooth?

 

I'll rarely use that third row of seats. Does anybody here know if a cargo cover is available for either van that starts right behind the second row of seats?

 

I also didn't see anybody here cross shop the Nissan Quest. Why not? Is that in a different thread? Thanks,

 

Neil

stever

Does anybody here care about bluetooth?

 

The Bluetooth Technology discussion isn't getting a lot of traffic either - still a bit new I suppose.

 

There are a couple of boards that compare the Quest:

 

Nissan Quest vs Toyota Sienna

 

Nissan Quest vs. Honda Odyssey

 

Steve, Host

movado

Had a chance to drive both vehicles, the oddysey and sienna.

 

The only thing I found better in the Honda oddysey is the umph when stepping on the gas.

 

I have been told that the oddysey tends to make all sorts of rattles after awhile. True or not I don't know.

 

Siennas Looks were nicer I purchaced the Sienna LE which I had the # 5 package added in addition for 1200 dollars had it reupholstered with leather ( Very Nice just like the factory) I also had a DVD installed for 1400 dollars a ten inch screen. In addittion I had Auto start installed for 425 dollars. The DVD I had tied into the sterio system. And for Navigation The TOMTOM will do so much better to have a portable. And lets be honest I tried out the navigation on the sienna and the honda. Terrible directions!!!

 

Well I really did have my eye on the honda but the umph on the road was not a seller to me.

coffeequery

While I've enjoyed and benefited from reading this forum before purchasing a recent van, I'm curious to hear about members'responses to the following query: What type of coffee do people who purchase either a Sienna or Odyssey prefer? Dunkin Donuts vs. Starbucks? If you have the time and inclination, please post what type of van and coffee you prefer.

Thanks for indulging me in this frivolous poll.

dulnev

"I don't know how anyone with a straight face can write that the Sienna interior feels "cheaper" than the Oddysey's. One feels like a Lexus, the other like a Civic."

 

The word "feels" should clue you in on the fact that it's my perception. It's the way I feel and it's perfectly reasonable. Your comparison of one to Lexus and the other to Civic is not. You may feel that Sienna's interior is better, but there is certainly not THAT much difference in the level of attractiveness.

dulnev

"The memory seats you are so excited about: I think it is dumb for a vehicle priced at 40 K to have memory that ONLY REMEMBERS the seats, not the power pedels or power mirrors, or didn't yoi notice. What good is this when the second drive still needs to adjust these?"

 

Do I like the fact that mirrors and pedals position is not remembered? Of course not! But having just memory seats to me is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more preferrable than not having ANYTHING memory. The biggest problem we have with our current van is that I drive it on weekends and then my wife spends the next 3-5 days to find a comfortable SEAT position again. Adjusting mirrors only takes her 5 seconds!

So in this respect Sienna is simply unacceptable to us.