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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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  • I BOUGHT A TOYOTA SIENNA 2005 LE MODEL 10 DAYS AGO THE DAY AFTER I BOUGHT IT IT WOULDN'T START THEY CAME OUT AND JUST AS THEY PULLED UP TO WHERE I WAS IT STARTED. THEY SAID DON'T WORRY IT WAS NOTHING I PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE IT IN PARK ALL THE WAY. 4 DAYS LATER IT DIED AGAIN AND HAS NOT STARTED SINCE THEY REPLACED THE FUEL PUMP BUT THAT DIDN'T WORK MY VAN HAS BEEN IN THE SHOP FOR6 DAYS AND THEY STILL DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS WRONG THEY SAID THEY WILL REPLACE IT
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Try the Toyota Sienna Owners: Problems & Solutions (2004+) discussion.

     

    And please turn off the caps lock - shouting is hard to read.

     

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,460
    Well, it certainly sounds like a fluke problem, and you should feellucky that they will switch you to another new van.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • Maybe you should have bought the better of the 2 vans instead...........
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Maybe you should have bought the better of the 2 vans instead..........."

     

    The IS no purely objective better unless EVERYONE agrees on exactly what criteria will be used to judge. We all have different criteria, therefor, what may be 'better' for recio3 may not be 'better' for stickguy, or 'better' for rorr, or even 'better' for you, a Honda salesman.

     

    Are you stating, categorically, that Honda is incapable of producing a vehicle which would exibit the sort of problem which recio3 is having?
  • carzzzcarzzz Posts: 282
    Odyssey is better, it does not "hesitate" like Sienna, Highlander, ES330, RX330, camry V6... and those toyota cars are definitely giving some safety conerns to the drivers as well as passengers!

     

    Here are two articles on hesitation problem!

     

    http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm

     

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
  • I just thought I would get things started, especially since Honda is again the best brand for retaining value for new cars and trucks. This was from Automotive Lease Guide and on CNN Money.

     

    Plus last year's Odyssey was #1 in NHTSA safety for vans; and Honda improved upon that this year with the new Industry Leading safety equipment.

     

    Let the bickering begin.
  • You write:

    "Plus last year's Odyssey was #1 in NHTSA safety for vans; and Honda improved upon that this year with the new Industry Leading safety equipment."

     

    What would be this *leading* safety equipment, if I may ask? Actually, Sienna is the best based on IIHS tests and IIRC, in NHSTA tests, Ody, Sienna, Freestar and Quest all got five stars all around.
  • You wrote*, "What would be this *leading* safety equipment, if I may ask? Actually, Sienna is the best based on IIHS tests and IIRC, in NHSTA tests, Ody, Sienna, Freestar and Quest all got five stars all around"

     

    THE ANSWER is simply, ACE Body Structure Honda/acura invented and added to the TL and the ODyssey 05'. I'm sure it will improve the driver and passengers saftey. If you need more info just visit the odyssey's site. By the way, how can you say Sienna did better than Honda in NHSTA tests 2005, when Honda Odyssey hasn't been tested yet. You trully are Sienna biase!!
  • Touring bought over Sienna because of one simple reason............... MORE RELIABLE. I've owned 3 odyssey's and have never had any problems. So far so good... My friend has owned 2 Sienna's and his brand new 2005, would not start. What's going ON? Sienna owner's on every Forum attack PAX PAX PAX, and don't realize that if PAX is as HORRIBLE as sienna owners say, "why would Rolls Royce use them? because their cheap? NO, because there stiff? NO, then why, SIMPLE, the tires have been tested enough and proved to be better than regular run flats. I own a MINI Cooper and a Chrysler 300 both 2005 with run flats(MINI) and (Chrysler)self sealing tires, and my odyssey has a much smoother ride, comparable to my friends lexus. I know honda screwed up with the first 12,000 new 05' ody's but this was a new model, in a new plant(ALABAMA), it could have been worse. Anyway my point is before you keep on making false accusations on cars you haven't owned or test driven, go to a dealer and test drive, AND MAKE SURE they are the NEW ones being made and not the first car that was produced!

    I didn't buy the Sienna because of my friends problem, with the car not starting. Also when I test drove the sienna the engine over heated..... Toyota should fix these vans before they let us test drive them.... P.S. I still wish honda had added HID lights to the Ody, but if they do it won't be anytime soon, because they would have to redesign the front end in order to "make way for hid technology"
  • Oh I know 2005 Ody hasn't been tested yet. jsmath brought up 2004 Ody, so that's the result I wrote about.

     

    Now, other than Honda, no one knows how the so called ACE structure performs. 2004 Sienna was IIHS's best pick overall above the 04 Ody. While I don't expect 05 Ody to perform poorly in crash tests, those of you who buy in to Honda's marketing that it is better than other vans, don't have any objective evidence to support the assertion.

     

    Honda also told us all that the Ody will be the quietest van. However, as you can see from these forums, the general opinion is that Sienna and T&C are still quieter. But, it all comes down to personal preference in the end, doesn't it? If one likes more driver feel, Ody is the van to buy. If one wants a more isolated ride, go for the Sienna. My personal preference is that minivans should be comfortable, quiet and smooth as a kids mover and that's why I went with the Sienna and Hondas are generally uncomfortable for me.

     

    I don't put too much faith in to Consumer Reports' rating, but, the previous generation Sienna was the most reliable in its category and there is absolutely no endemic problems with the 3.3L engine.
  • "I was just at a Toyota dealer in NY and the saleswoman said that Lexus was working on a minivan."

     

    I hope that salesman is correct!

    Thanks for the info.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 839
    So many reason why. Let's begin with:

     

    1. Phantom owners probably have more than one vehicle. If PAX replacement becomes necessary, no biggie for an owner with a half a dozen other cars.

      

    2. Most Phantom owners won't be driving their $300,000 car in the snow. Lack of winter treads for PAX is a non-issue, as they'll just drive the Range Rover instead.

     

    3. PAX replacement or service must be done by the dealer (or a Michelin dealer who's bought the necessary equipment). You can't even begin to compare the dealer service experience of Rolls-Royce to that of Honda. Phantom owners in need of service have their cars picked up at their homes, and hauled (covered, of course) to the dealer for work. No hassle for THEM!

     

    4. Phantom owners probably won't be complaining about replacement cost-- that is, if they ever put enough miles on the car to require new tires in the first place.
  • Yeah, I'm still waiting for C&D magazine to report the actual interior noise level comparison.

     

    Claiming the Ody is the quietest minivan is an extremely bold statement.

     

    I like an extremely quiet and smooth ride--like Lexus LS sedan. And right now, the Sienna is probably still the quietest (unless C&D magazine reports otherwise IMO) and the smoothest.

     

    But at the same time, I want the best Navigation system plus 6 CD changer.

    Right now, the Ody wins in this category.
  • Do you think the Toyota's Run-Flat system is better?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Hey Andrew, welcome back. I was beginning to think you had shipped out to the South African chrome mines or something :-)

     

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 839
    I have no complaints. I was able to obtain run-flat winter tires without trouble, and my local tire shop was able to install them. If availability becomes a problem for summer or winter RFT's, my standard 17" rims allow me to use conventional non-run-flats. Can't do any of this with PAX.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I want to remind everyone that Rolls Royce used to spec Avon tires on all their models, so their use of the PAX system shouldn't automatically be considered a good thing.....
  • If Sienna was better in NHTSA, why are the actual figures/numbers higher on the Sienna than the Odyssey. The 2004 Odyssey was #1 in the Minivan class for safety, NHTSA gave that award to the Odyssey, CRV, Pilot, Accord, and Civic. All 5 were #1 in their respective classes. Toyota had 3 vehicles at the top of their classes, Mercury had 2, Ford had 2, and 10 other manufacturers had 1. All on the website. So to improve on a #1 rating for 05 would make it better that #1. Look at the numbers, lower numbers, better results. The Sienna numbers were higher than the Odyssey, higher numbers means more forces exerted on the person's body. So quote as you may about 5 stars, Honda Odyssey was #1 in the Minivan class for safety according to NHTSA.
  • So the passenger in the 2004 Sienna gets 678 Head Injury Criterion Units in a frontal crash, while the passenger in a 2004 Odyssey gets 358 Head Injury Criterion units.

     

    I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna.

     

    Shall I continue, or does this dispel the rumors that lower numbers save lives, not stars. I want raw data instead of a controversial words of acceptable, fair, marginal.

     

    The numbers speak for themselves, and when a person sees lower numbers on a comparable test, they know which van has better safety.
  • According to the vehicle tests done by Consumer Automotive Research Inc. the following results were found.

     

                   Toyota Sienna XLE Limited Honda Odyssey Touring

     

    4000 RPM 60 db 58 db

    20 MPH 65 db 62 db

    60 MPH 72 db 68 db

    Acceleration 73 db 72 db

    With AC on 72 db 67 db

    Bumps 80 db 80 db

     

    Ok that covers Noise levels and safety, what's next? Best van for 2005?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,460
    levels are subjective. That is, at the same db level, you can have different types of sound, some of which are more bothersome than others.

     

    Seats and noise level are about the easiest things to check for yourself. Take a test drive that includes a highway stretch, and you should know what works for you.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • You write:

    "I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna."

     

    If this difference was supposed to cause serious injury, NHTSA wouldn't have awarded 5 stars to the Sienna. From a salesman's standpoint I guess its ok to point this out, but if you look at IIHS results, you will find that intrusion into the passenger compartment in the Sienna was less than that of 04 Ody. That's one of the reasons why Sienna was IIHS's best pick. You also sort of see this in the pictures on the NHTSA web site.

     

    But, this doesn't address the most pertinent issue. To date, the 2005 Ody hasn't been tested, so all Honda salesmen are simply blowing smoke to hide this. Would 2005 Ody with its newer so called ACE structure be better than the Sienna? I simply don't know and neither is any one else here. However, there is no dearth of marketing hype.

     

    I don't have to tell you about the noise levels on the 05 Ody with so many complaining about it here in these boards. Obviously, there is some discrepency between perception and measurement of these levels as stickguy explains, which was the case with the 04 Ody as well. Particularly, those of us who were used to DC vans, it wa(i)s a bit more noticeable than it would have been otherwise. May be its just a combination of road feel and engine noise this gives this increased noisy feeling, but there is no denying that Sienna and TC are quieter and/or smoother. Again, goes back to preference you know.

     

    If one is not concerned about the latest RES/NAV, the 05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited. That is simply my subjective opinion, based on my preferences. With the Ody having less power to weight ratio than the Sienna, the increased HP really doesn't matter much.
  • "I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna."

     

    Marbles...??? What are you talking about? Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it?

     

    The head injury index (HIC) is a measure of acceleration (deceleration) and has nothing to do with being "hit". The formula used is non-linear--meaning that a value of 600 doesn't imply "twice the danger" of a 300 value. The length of time over which acceleration occurs (impulse duration) plays heavily in the results but the maximum integration period is less than 50 milliseconds.

     

    NHTSA calculates this value from the peak "integral" deceleration period during a crash impulse and then compares to a "likely injury" threshold criterion. A 5-star rating translates to a "10% or less chance of injury" for the category. HCI is a "relative measure" since it is not derived from nor otherwise connected to actual injury data.

     

    That is why they use words like "good, fair,...etc"--so that people don't misintrepret the raw data.
  • Man, I envy all of you who shop on the south side of the border... I just cannot afford to purchase a van at $40k+ (CA$)....

     

    I am comparing Ody LX vs Sienna CE, both 7 seater.

     

    LX costs $32.7k MSRP, CE is at $30k MSRP. CE has most of the features I need, minus traction control and privacy glass. This is pretty sad, since I've been leasing minivans so far and I always had well equipped vans. This is the first time I am trying to finance, attempting to reduce the long-term ownership cost. I'd like to keep them for about 6 years.

     

    But here's the kicker. With my trade in, my monthly cost comes out to $670 for Ody while $502 for Sienna! Just for the heck of it, I tried calculating monthly cost for Sienna LE, which costs $35.4k MSRP. It comes out to $645! Still cheaper than Ody LX.

     

    Ok, getting my hopes up and compared XLE, which is at whopping $44.6k... :) $889. Oops. Back to LE. (By the way, Ody EX will cost me $757).

     

    I dunno about you guys, but comparing Ody LX vs Sienna LE, I am tilting towards LE. It has more options and it is cheaper! Even the residual is likely to come out better as it is higher valued vehicle to begin with.

     

    I'm also considering waiting another year, hoping the interest rate to come down. Honda currently charges 6.4%!

     

    Should I relocate to US? :)
  • Untill they get the results of the 05' odyssey you can't judge a 2005 sienna with an 04' ody it just is very unreliable to do so especially after such an upgrade in body structure.

    My wife just purchased an 05' Sienna, and me an 05' Ody, my van is much quieter, as in hers you can hear road noise on the hwy at 45-70 mph, while in the odyssey the only noise I hear is my right side sliding door which has a problem that will be fixed by Honda next week.
  • ktnrktnr Posts: 255
    Man, that was a good post! I go through hundreds of messages waiting for one like that. Awesome.
  • Impact01 You said: but there is no denying that Sienna and TC are quieter and/or smoother

    If one is not concerned about the latest RES/NAV, the 05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited

     

    both of those "sentences' to me don't mean anything, you know why, EXPERIENCE. I've test driven a cheap DC and as I said my wife owns a Sienna, and guess what?, both are a not as smooth as my odyssey by about 2 milli points. How can you say, "05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited", do you own the sienna 05' or just by the things you've heard Do you own a Touring?" Besides the HID and Laser cruise control both vans are the same except no moonroof on the sienna XLE Limited, while on the Touring Res/ Nav. I have to disagree with you not because I love the ody but because of my experience with these 2 vans. I would not have paid about $45,500 for a minivan (ody touring) if I thought the sienna was smoother or quieter, and that the HID, Laser cruise control, or the 3rd row power window mattered. To me these are just unnessesary features, that honda missed but will place on future vans, besides competition is gonna get tuff when the newly redesigned KIA which Popular Mechanics says is the most light weight, will be introduced in 05' with HID lights. I SEE COMPETITION COMING SOON!----
  • You write:"Besides the HID and Laser cruise control both vans are the same except no moonroof on the sienna XLE Limited, while on the Touring Res/ Nav."

     

    Have you even looked at a Sienna Limited? Moonroofs are standard on this trim level, I should know, because I have already have 15K miles on my 04 Arctic Frost Pearl Limited FWD with package 6.

     

    I spent quite a bit of time researching vans including the 2003 models (late 2002), because of my need to replace my 93 T&C. No doubt at that time, the T&C was more luxurious and comfortable and the Ody was plain, functional and noisy but was at least ~$2-3K cheaper than the T&C Limited, so the value for money wasn't quite convincing to buy the T&C. With 04 Sienna arriving Jan 2003, it was the best value for money for me. If I had wanted the cheapest van, I'd have bought a Kia Sedona that even looked a bit more upscale than Ody EXL at that time!.

     

    So, I know about the "cheap DC" you're talking about. I can tell you, they drive much smoother and quiter than the prev. generation Ody. You don't have to take my word for it, because there are so many in these forums that have found the same thing. I have only briefly looked at the 05 Ody since I am not in the market anymore, and the interior on the Touring still looks much cheaper than the Sienna (Sienna is more upscale). Placement of controls etc. on the Sienna is just perfect and I love the leather/wood steering wheel, HID, Laser CC, auto dim mirrors, tri-zone A/C etc. The second and third row sunshades (standard on LTD) are beautifully implemented. I regularly use the third row vents and can't believe in 05 Ody they took it out. PAX is a truly a deal breaker on the Ody Touring. My biggest gripe with the Sienna so far are the crappy Turanza EL42 tires that have close to zero wet traction. Lack of memory seats is probably the next one, but I haven't needed that in a while. I actually like the way RES is implemented in the Sienna now, because my kid can change DVDs without bothering me when I am driving.

     

    Sienna is the quietest between 40-70 mph. Beyond 70mph I hear occasional wind noise, but not road noise. My 93 T&C had wind noise that was much worse, and so IMO, the Sienna is well insulated. I've driven upwards of 700 miles in one day on various roads, and this is one of the most comfortable vehicles that I've ever owned. Then again it all comes down to personal preference. As I said earlier, Ody is the van of choice for people who prefer a better road feel and I am not one of them.
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