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Comments
I'll agree that AWD/4WD would be better for accelerating away from a stop, simply because you are applying power to a much larger contact patch.
But for CONTROL (steering response, etc.) would AWD necessarily be better than skid control which utilizes individual brakes to help keep the vehicle on the intended path?
I realize there are more than a few AWD fans here, but has anyone actually tested a FWD version with VSC and snow tires?
What do you guys think?
There is a difference of just over $2000.00 by that the EX + installed DVD is cheaper
I do have small kids and I thought cloth was a better option than leather.
Open to suggestions.
Test drives on mountain roads in snowy conditions would be ideal, but we're hoping to make the purchase before winter arrives (although around here that could be any day!).
We have loved the Highlander, but we find we now need full-fledged third-row seating, and the little rumble seat they've stuck into the newer Highlanders won't cut it. For better or worse, my wife prefers the idea of a minivan to a full-size SUV (Sequoia, etc.)
I didn't know about the kit to carry a spare by folding down part of the third row seats, but (sadly) that at least partially defeats the purpose of getting the vehicle--which is the additional passenger and cargo capacity.
Oh, well...life is full of vexing decisions!
Off subject reply to Hansienna: gasoline prices here currently range from $1.10 to $1.15 (Canadian) per liter. That works out to about $3.45 to $3.60 (US) per gallon.
We moved back to canada from Ithaca, NY 13 months ago. We noticed that gas prices here seemed pretty consistently 20-25% higher than in the US. Most of that is accounted for by higher federal and provincial (equivalent to state) taxes, excises, and levies.
The long and short of it is that gas is generally more expensive in Canada than the US, but Calgary's prices are among the lowest in Canada (because Alberta produces and exports the stuff and has among the lowest excise taxes on gasoline). The real story is that Alberta is debt-free and sitting on billions of dollars because of oil and gas revenues. This year alone, the province is expecting a surplus of 7 billion dollars--thanks to rising crude prices. As you might imagine, there are lots of ideas about what to do with a pile of loot like that--reduce provincial income tax (the province already has no sales tax); build lots of roads, schools, hospitals, etc; just give people checks, and so on!
(Of course, we're also in a cold climate, so the heated seat aspect of leather is also nice to have!)
As far as the DVD/entertainment stuff goes, I have similar questions myself. We definitely want to have the feature in our next vehicle, but is there a big difference between factory-installed vs. aftermarket/third-party?
It seems to me that factory-installed is a "cleaner" installation, and fully integrated into the vehicle. On the other hand, with technology evolving so quickly, aftermarket/third-party would seem to offer greater flexibility for swapping out--for a bigger screen, HD-DVD, and/or whatever else is "just around the corner" on the media/entertainment system front.
It is based on the Odyssey and although has less room inside than the Odyssey, it seems to have as much interior space as any but the largest, gargantuan SUV's..AND the Pilot gets gas mileage almost as good as the Sienna or Odyssey.
Off Topic: Thanks for the fuel cost report. (Although your fuel may be more expensive than in the USA, you more than make up for the difference in the reduced cost of health care in Canada vs the large monthly health care premiums we pay here.)
Off Topic: It's true that health care costs less up here in Canada--but wait times and access to medical services across the board are much longer. We had good health insurance in the U.S.--which definitely makes all the difference. We have certainly found both pros and cons about being on either side of the border.
A definite disadvantage in Canada is the price of vehicles. MSRP for the Odyssey EX L-RES in the US is $32,395. In Canada, MSRP for the same vehicle is $41,500. At today's exchange rate, that's equivalent to $34,860 US. Same car, $2,500 (US) more.
It's hard to take every factor into account, but when you consider average income, average tax rates, and so on, you can get some reasonable comparisons. The most effective way to compare costs is to ask how many hours the "average" person has to work to buy something. Using that measure, it takes the "average" Canadian 1552 hours of work to buy the "average" car. It takes the "average" American 1459 hours. (I found an international study from 2002 online for another project at the office.)
It turns out the same basic ratio applies for TVs, fridges, groceries, books, CDs, you name it. A "typical" Canadian has to work about 6 or 7% more hours to buy just about anything. Or, to put it another way, the "typical" Canadian can afford about 6 or 7% less "stuff" than the typical American. Some may say that's a good thing in the big picture...but when you're in the market for a big-ticket purchase like a car, it's tough to swallow. (And, sure enough, that $2500 premium for the Odyssey is right in the ballpark--7.7% more.) Anyway, I digress...
Almost every Canadian that I have met inside the United States prefers to live in Canada when every factor is considered.
I also live in Calgary and got the Sienna AWD.
The RFTs are a standard size so if you get a flat somewhere and can't get a RFT replacement then you could use a standard size tire.
My wife's Alero is an FWD with Traction Control (but no Stability Control). I have managed to get it stuck when both front tires were on ice such as coming out of parking lots where there is a "vee" formed between the road and the parking lot exit.
As well with AWD you can walk the vehicle off of the line at stoplights which are generally polished ice from people starting and stopping. The Sienna never spins a tire whereas the FWD Alero is a bit trickier to keep going straight.
In Calgary you're going to see a lot of polished intersections especially where there's a climb involved from the intersection in any hilly part of town.
My concern with the Pilot (or potential AWD Odyssey that never materialized) is that their system is FWD with power transfer to the rear wheels after slip detection and I believe their system is limited to a certain vehicle speed above which it remains an FWD vehicle even if slip is detected. I liked the Toyota mechanical 50/50 full time split better than something that is regulated and controlled. I know the brakes are applied to try and maintain a 50/50 split in low traction situations but I've never seen the VSC/TRAC lights come on in normal driving even on snowy roads.
Last October or November my wife had to drive her friend home in the midst of a big snowstorm. I said take the Sienna as it's AWD; she came back white knuckled with all of the vehicles around her sliding around and she even thought the Sienna seemed "loose". However, the next day she "wanted" to take the Sienna over the Alero even though she had to try to park it in an underground parkade and wasn't comfortable with its size; this says it all to me as being the right purchase.
To me it's just a larger margin of confidence/error than FWD in snowy or even rainy situations that can be around for 4 - 6 months of a year in Calgary.
DDL
-murray
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link
I helped before on another issue but when I posted the link to another website, I got my hand slapped (Edmunds.com policy regarding using other websites in links) by a moderator.
However, If you allow me to post the link (to another site) which has the necessary pics and instructions, I'll do it. It is much too difficult to describe without pics (it involves taking a spare fuse and inserting it in an unused slot in the fuse box).
So, the ball is in your court. I stand ready to post!!!
BTW, the link in the above post by user777 is accurate. However, a picture is worth more IMHO.
Cheers,
Boodad
I did just what you told me to do and I now have DRLs! I will tell you that without the diagram it would have been a lot more difficult.
Thanks for the help.
Glad to help. Knowledge is power - - I'm more than willing to share.
Links themselves aren't a problem, as long as they don't go to other online communities or to sites that provide you with some personal gain (i.e., one that advertises you, or something you have to sell :-)).
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Taking info from the "other" online community and pasting it here, to me, would not be right. Posting a link to the source is preferred. But since I am not allowed to post the link to the "other" online community, I will maintain my personal policy that folks can contact me if they want info.
I have no problem abiding by the rules here - - but I will not post cut and pasted products (instructions, pics) takened from another source (of which I do not have control of or authorization from) out of respect for the "other" online community. I understand this site's policy. Please understand my corresponding policy. Can we handshake on that?
Hopefully, odysseyuser will have goodluck with the bumper fix..
At least the Ody has 8 seats on the EX-L +NAV+DVD.
But Neither the Ody nor Sienna has 8 seats for their top of the line.
What idots decided that?
Ody has 6-disc CD on the NAV models vs Sienna has 4-discs CD on the NAV.
Why 4-disc Toyota??
Ody's NAV screen is 8" vs Sienna's NAV is 6.5".
Sienna is bluetooth vs Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?
Ody's DVD player is mounted up front dash vs Sienna's dvd mounted on ceiling.
Ody has run-flat tires on ALL Touring models vs Sienna run-flats only on AWD.
Sienna has woodtrim vs. Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?
Sienna has gated shifter vs Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?
I prefer the driving of the Sienna, but the overall features and layout of the Ody.
So if I were to buy today, I would pick the Ody.
But deep inside, I hope Toyota will make the Sienna look more like a TRUE Lexus, instead of a Camry.
Not worried about 4 versus 6-disc CD on the NAV models since the '06 Sienna takes the iPod/MP3 input (new feature--send me a PM for more info). CDs are fast becoming obsolete for listening to music.
Run-flats: based on owners reviews at "other" websites regarding these new tech tires, I've found them to be proprietary (not widely supported by tire garages), they're expensive to replace, they don't last long, and they rely on tire pressure monitors to let you know they're out of air (which is a problem if the sensors don't pick this up -- which actually happened to several owners). I'm not too crazy about them so this is not a feature I would look for to have anytime soon.
The bottomline is these vans would be much more expensive if they were built to each customer's whims and wishes instead of in the packages/trims found on the car lots. Just pick the one you could live with. Both are fine and are the 80-90 percent solution for carrying multiple folks, much more so (of a solution) than their competitors. I'm hanging on to my '05 Sienna for another 8-10 years - - it's really a pleasure to drive, comfortable, quiet ride, and gets decent gas mileage for a two ton beast. I'm sure the Ody would be fine, too, but I like the Sienna more . YMMV.
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A lot of people don't care for the fake wood look.
A "gated shifter" ? A big deal to very few, myself included.
DVD on the dash? What are you talking about? It's on the ceiling, of course!
Both have their advantages, I suppose. People just have to decide what is important to them!
Just wondering what you know about how well the Odyssey performs in snow. I'm debating between the Honda and an AWD SUV as I don't like the Sienna. We will probably do a lot driving to mountains for skiing, so need to be sure that the Honda can perform in that type of environment. Thanks.
In Salt Lake City area, there is a $3,306 difference in favor of the Sienna LE. Most recent SELLING prices were $ 24,900 for a 2005 Sienna LE with MSRP $27,289 and $28,206 for a 2006 Odyssey EX with MSRP $28,945. :P
Also remember that the Ody will have the full complement of side airbags with roll-over sensors and traction/skid control as standard equipment. The Sienna LE won't. Of course, in lieu of those very minor little safety items (really, who wants safety in a minivan?), you DO get a really nice overhead console on the Sienna.......
I just wanted to point out some of the OTHER differences between these two vehicles you put together in a price comparison to justify (to yourself) why the Sienna LE would be a better deal. Because some people MIGHT prefer the safety features of the Odyssey over the overhead console on the Sienna and be willing to pay a few extra hundred for these items on the Odyssey.
Of course, since the actual availability of these safety items on the Sienna is 'spotty' at best (at least in the Texas area when our first choice was a Sienna), then your comparison probably has more validity.
I'm surprised with your response considering your intellect and history here. Are you suggesting that the Sienna is a warp speed rocketship while others are not? Your average rear end collision occurs near intersections. Typically, someone behind you wasn't paying attention or trys to stop too late. Obviously your Toyo bias thinking is that at say 15 MPH you can mash the pedal and jump to 70 MPH while catching a glimpse of someone approaching 50 feet or so away to avoid getting smashed from behind. Chances are, even if you had this ability, you'd not have an 'out' and in the process you smash into someone else. Please rethink your response in that no minivan today has this sort of acceleration, your response borders on BS, not in character for you.
Cheers!
I would rather have a quick responsive engine and trans in case of an emergency instead of one that bogs down for a second or two. Though it would probably come into play about as often as any other saftey feature...almost never.
davant posted a very intelligent rebuttal.
I am new to this forum and this is my first post. lot of useful information I could find here.
I need help comparing the differences B/W Sienna Vs Odessy.
I test drove Odessy 2005 EX model .
I am interested in buying either 2005 EX L model or 2005 EX L entertainment system.
If I need to buy similar equavalent features model in Sienna which model should I consider. Is it XLE ??.
Would Odessy cost me cheaper compare to added options in Sienna.
Can any one help me on this.
Thanks
Sam
Obviously, each vehicle has some features the other lacks. The biggies off the top of my head are:
Sienna - has power rear hatch, flip out 3rd row windows, overhead console w/ trip computer, power passenger seat, wood grain dash, tilt steering, and floor console that can be moved from 1st to second row. Sienna drives a bit smoother/quieter.
Odyssey - PlusOne seat for 8 seating capacity, and in-floor storage (lazy susan). Odyssey drives a bit more 'athletically' (a bit more composed in curves / a bit more responsive steering).
Both vans are pretty quick. Both vans will get roughly the same mileage (within 1-2 mpg). When I say that one is a 'bit' smoother or a 'bit' more responsive, the differences are actually (IMO) rather small.
When my wife and I were shopping, we preferred the Sienna. However, due to Toyota's Byzantine distribution plan, the actual availability of a vehicle optioned the way WE wanted was extremely small (we were seeking an XLE w/ leather, all the side airbags, and traction/VSC). We only located a couple of vehicles and the dealer's were not willing to deal. OTOH, we located several Ody EX-L's in the color we wanted (Ocean Mist) and were able to deal a bit better. In the end, we were able to get an EX-L for nearly $4k under the best we could manage for a Sienna. We felt the Sienna was better, but NOT $4k better.
That was on '05 models. You may have better luck locating what you want in an '06 model. Or your local dealers may deal differently (locally, we had better luck with the Honda dealers but that is certainly not the same around the country). Or, if traction/VSC is not a big deal for you, then the Sienna can be even cheaper than the EX-L.
(BTW, I think the Ocean Mist Metallic is one of the prettiest colors I have seen on any vehicle in many years with Sienna XLE Arctic Frost Pearl the only color as gorgeous).
.....and I tried to not even say anything crass about overhead consoles just for you! :shades: :P
As a bit of a personal postscript: for me, the Lazy Susan was a very attractive feature when we were shopping. After having the van for a while though, it's only used to store stuff that we rarely EVER need (jumper cables, etc.). For us anyway, so far it's been kinda useless. This could change when the kids get old enough (big enough) to reach into it themselves.