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Toyota Yaris

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Comments

  • Hard to get an exact comparison between pricing on the Scion xa and the Yaris, but..

    A base Scion from the site is:

    13,360

    Comparable optioned Yaris:

    14,520
    *optioned to get power W/L, antilock brakes, 60/40 seats, etc.

    What jumped out at me is that the Scion is a five door and comes with a tach, both of which add cost. I am sure as optioned the Yaris may have some features Scion doesn't..however it looks to me that the Yaris at +$1160 has a price fudge factor built in to MSRP.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Yeah, if what you WANT is a 5-door (or really any-type hatch, since the Yaris hatch is so hard to get), the xA is probably a better deal unless you don't want any of the power equipment. Many people (me included) don't, and in that case you should be able to save $1000 by going with the Yaris.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • Hi nippononly,

    I was trying to get as close to an apples to apples comparison for the purposes of showing that the MSRP on a standard dealer type sale is set different than the no-haggle type sales of scion, saturn, etc. So the salesperson who seems to think that people should waltz in and pay MSRP on all cars is incorrect because we are not dealing with cars that are priced for that way of doing business.

    I myself was tempted to get a stripped down Yaris...it would fit my needs. But it seems that there are so few available and more and more competitive cars are coming out. so I held off for now.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I think it's official - there isn't a new car you can buy in America that is as stripped as the base Yaris. I was amused by a blurb on it in the new cars issue of Automobile this month: (paraphrasing) "it must be the 70s all over again - rear defroster and radio optional?" I tend to agree with their perspective, given the car costs $11-12K in base form. If it were $8995, then maybe. More to the point, I wouldn't expect an $8995 base model from Toyota nowadays, and that's fine. But for $11K, things like a radio and defroster should be in there right from the start. Oh yeah, and a tach! :-P

    Now, as for the point you were trying to make: the argument could be made that the Yaris has an advantage or two over the xA you compared - folding mirrors vs fixed on xA, nicer interior in the liftback, newer design with slightly lower emissions and slightly more power, not to mention slightly better handling and ride right out of the box. Does that add up to being worth an extra grand? No. And it's ridiculous to think that a car like Yaris should automatically sell at MSRP. Indeed, it already fails to command that premium at several dealers in my area.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,685
    And with the falling price of gas im wondering if yaris sales will start falling also.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    I think most people know gas prices will only stay like this until next spring, or until market speculators start driving them back up, whichever comes first. Anyone who bases a vehicle purchase based on what they're seeing now at the pumps would be a fool!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,685
    Well...the fools have been buying eight and six cylinder cars for a long time...
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Posts: 296
    "And it's ridiculous to think that a car like Yaris should automatically sell at MSRP"

    Why? If demand in your area forces dealers to discount it a little (even invoice is a little mind you) great, but to say it's ridiculous at MSRP is, in fact, ridiculous :P

    The problem these days is that people want a discount no matter what. They don't even realize that all that does is force the manufacturer to charge more to begin with to compensate. If you don't believe me, look at all the great "deals" you can get on hard to sell products...

    If you look at the BIG picture (gas mileage, resale value, reliability, etc...) rather than just what the car sells for the moment you drive it off the lot, you'd see that the Yaris kills it's competition decisively.

    Notice that I don't mention a goofy warranty. Why? Because a long warranty doesn't mean a thing when you're stranded on the side of the highway, or late to a meeting, etc...

    I'd rather have the peace of mind of probably never having to worry about that. Something you just can't say with very much confidence about any of Yaris's competitors besides the Fit.

    Personally I see great value in BOTH the Fit and the Yaris at MSRP. The Fit was originally my choice (and remember I work for Toyota), but demand was dictating a $2000+ price difference (Over MSRP btw) and then I found out just how old the Fit really is (even though it's still pretty darn nice).

    After looking at the big picture, I paid MSRP for a Yaris.

    I COULD have waited a few months, but I wanted it right then, and certainly didn't think it ridiculous considering the other options out there. I also consider my time valuable enough to not sweat spending endless hours/frustration trying to beat a dealer out of a few hundred bucks. Again, if your time isn't worth it, more power to ya.

    Show me how a Focus/Rio/Aerio/Whatever is a better value at below invoice than the Toyota or Honda (If you could get one for it) is at MSRP?

    T
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    My whole statement was "ridiculous to AUTOMATICALLY sell at that price". Meaning dealers taking the attitude that no-one else would sell it under sticker. Because plenty will.

    And if I had bought the car in March - a brand new model in its first month or two - I would have expected to pay full sticker too. Which is why I would never buy a car in its first few months after launch.

    If you had waited six months, you could have saved 5%. If you had waited a year, you could have saved 10%. I like those numbers.

    But you are right, there is something to be said for viewing the deal on its own merits. And on its own merits, in the context of the current market for subcompact models, I feel that the only Yaris that is a decent deal at MSRP is the one you got - the liftback manual with convenience package for $12,300. I don't feel the $16K Yaris S sedan manual with power package is a very good deal at all, although at $14,5 it would be very attractive.

    OTOH, I feel the Fit Sport manual at $15,7 is a very good deal at MSRP, but the base Fit looks shabby with those silly wheel covers, handles a lot worse with those little 14" rims, and leaves out some crucial stuff, so it is a sucky deal at its $14,4 sticker price.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Show me how a Focus/Rio/Aerio/Whatever is a better value at below invoice than the Toyota or Honda (If you could get one for it) is at MSRP?

    2007 Accent SE, invoice including destination: $13,591

    2007 Yaris Hatchback with comparable equipment, MSRP including destination: $15,075

    Plus the Accent has a 6-speaker stereo (vs. 4), 8-way adjustable driver's seat with dual height adjustments (Yaris has no height adjuster), 16" alloys vs. 15", sport suspension including front and rear antiroll bars, and a few other features not on the Yaris such as leather steering wheel and shifter, heated mirrors, dual lighted vanity mirrors, variable intermittant wipers, 4-wheel disc brakes, and full gauges including tach and temperature. Also, a sunroof and CD changer with cassette are available--and the invoice price with those options is still less than the MSRP price of the Yaris. Plus the Accent has a longer warranty (Yes, I know, you don't like long warranties. I do, especially if I don't pay extra for them.)

    IMO the Accent at invoice (let alone below invoice) is a better value than the Yaris at MSRP.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Posts: 296
    Alright, we'll trade in or sell our cars in 3 years and see who got the better "value" then.

    My point wasn't that you can't get more fluff, it was that even WITH all of the fluff and discounts and rebates, you still will come out ahead financially in a Fit or Yaris, thus making it a better value for your money. And that was the sticking point of not wanting to pay MSRP :)

    The reason why Hyundai offers the warranty they do is because they HAVE to... Otherwise the public just wouldn't trust their product. It's not out of the goodness of their hearts.

    We can argue all we want about it only being perception, but at the end of 3 years, I will have a 3 year old Toyota and you (would/will) have a 3 year old Hyundai.

    You could also make the argument that you're going to drive it until the wheels fall off. Almost EVERYONE says that. In reality, if you're a new car buyer, the nationwide average length of ownership is less than 4 years.

    When you go to trade it in, it won't matter how technically superior it is. It still has that crooked H on the hood ;)

    BTW, I in no way think Hyundai's a bad company or car, it's just that perception rules the marketplace, and dollar for dollar, the best value is something that KEEPS it's value. I know a lot of people very happy with them. I also know a lot of people trying desperately to get OUT of them. Until that changes, Toyota and Honda will always be a better value for your $$$.

    T
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,685
    Is it true that Hyundai has one of the WORST repair records in CR?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    No, actually it has one of the better repair records. You are probably thinking of Mercedes-Benz, or VW, or maybe the US-based automakers.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,685
    Better than Honda or Toyota?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    No, but that's not what you said originally, or what I said, is it?

    If it's worth a lot of money to you to own a car that has some more red circles in CR's reliability survey results, it's your money. We know from recent history that those extra red circles won't make cars free of defects and recalls.

    Anybody want to talk about the Yaris instead of relative value vs. competitors? The Low End Sedans discussion would be an ideal place for that I think.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    is a really nice piece - well put together with excellent handling and a nicer interior (I was in one recently). I would choose it over the comparably priced Yaris, given that the Yaris would have less equipment, less niceties (show me that leather-wrapped steering wheel and heated side mirrors, and let's just try to forget as quickly as possible the crappy rubber accordion boot that the Yaris's manual shifter wears, which is straight out of the 70s and will crack within 3 or 4 years just like they did back then), and worse handling.

    Unfortunately, you can't get factory cruise on the Accent SE either. While this is a sticking point for me, I understand that it wouldn't be for many.

    Now on the basement bargain side, I think I would go with the Yaris with convenience package rather than the lower-trim Accents, which I am a lot less impressed with, in the new model.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,685
    You were talking up the merits of Hyundai above. In fact you were seeming to claim Hyundai has more repeat buyers than Toyota! In the Yaris section. Well its only fair to mention Hyundais poorer reliability ratings in CR.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Posts: 296
    Not only that, but you do realize that Hyundai's go through auction/trade at 3-4000 BELOW whatever book value you may use right? I could publish something saying the Yaris was worth MORE than what I paid for it, but I'm not the one actually BUYING it for that, so it's irrelevant.

    It's the primary reason why some salespeople run when they see a customer pull up in a newer non-rental Hyundai/KIA. Book SAYS it's worth X, but in the real world of cars it's worth Y. Pull some Manheim auction reports if you need further proof...

    As for the repeat customer factor, remember Toyota outsells Hyundai by a more than 20 to 1 margin worldwide. When you have that broad a slice of customers, a lot of them are people that will always brand jump, not because of dissatisfaction, but because people like to try different things. When you sell THAT many more vehicles it's more pronounced.

    Also, people are forced to return to Hyundai (or a domestic with large rebates) because with their resale value they have little choice in the matter. There are large banks that won't even FINANCE a Hyundai or a KIA! They're probably just imagining the resale problem too lol...

    Just for giggles, I went and checked out an Accent last night. I have to admit, it's pretty nice. Never said it wasn't. It is most definitely smaller on the inside than my Yaris though. I'm a taller guy, so interior room makes a big difference... The Accent still FEELS like a sub-compact on the inside. The Yaris surprises everyone I take for a ride with it's legroom/headroom/hiproom.

    Gas-mileage, reliability, resale, and comfort would have sold me on the Yaris though, had I been considering choosing between the two.

    Hyundai is less reliable than Toyota. Broad statement? Ask a random 100 people if they agree.

    T
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    In fact you were seeming to claim Hyundai has more repeat buyers than Toyota!

    I claimed nothing of the sort. Please re-read my post. I suggested that it would be worthwhile to compare the percentage of people who are repeat buyers of Hyundais to the percentage of repeat buyers of Toyotas. The difference is not very big.
  • What his teenage daughter wants and the reality of what she drives are two different things. If her only option is a Hyundai then she'll be happy with it.

    My son is driving a 98 Cirrus that I recently picked up for him and he has no complaints.
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