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Porsche 911

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Don,

    Weather in DC is pretty average as far as rain. I wouldn't drive either a C2 or C4 in the snow, and probably not in a heavy rain unless it hit unexpectedly.

    As far as driving a new C4S, I don't think that would give me a fair comparison, as I wouldn't rev it past 4,000 rpm out of respect for the break in requirements. And I have found my C2S feels even quicker now at 4,800 miles than it did immediately post-break in at 2,000 miles. I checked with another friend who has a 2003 911TT. He thought I would notice a difference initially, but after a couple of months the C4S would feel plenty fast and my memory of the C2S would have faded.

    How's your C4 Cab? Past the break-in yet? Give us an update.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hi Edward,
    Amazing Winter here so far, many top-down afternoons including today; 60 and mostly sunny. I don't really go many places and I have two vehicles so the P-car has 1252 as of today. I always drive far enough to make sure the oil has hit its operating temperature. Car arrived with a system error, "headlights misaligned" but a faulty sensor was replaced at closest dealer in Asheville. No problems other than that but how can a dealership (not the one in Asheville) release a new P-car with that or any kind of error message??
    Absolutely LOVE the car. Still feel the coupes look better but so glad I got the cab. Was enjoying cloud formations today (while also paying attention to driving). Car handles (all mountain twisty roads here in western NC) amazingly well and brakes are inspiring! Haven't really pushed her yet but am more & more now that 1,000 mile mark has passed. Have probably just missed getting several tickets when airing it out briefly then resuming safe speed only to have a State Trooper breeze by in the other direction! Timing (and dumb luck) IS everything. If I can answer any specific questions, please feel free to ask. Car also came one "bar" down in oil and after 1,000 miles went to 2 bars down. I had dealer top it off while there for the sensor replacement and it took what feels like 2/3 of my bottle of Mobil 1.
    Oil gauge hasn't moved since but some oil use during breakin is "normal" I have been told.
  • I've begun a regular every two week Boston to Montreal round trip which I see going on for the foreseeable future. My Cayenne has been fantastic with good winter features (heated wheel and rear window, AWD, fogs, etc.) It really feels invincable rolling up I89 into Quebec even at midnight in January weather. (Caution: those Vermont rest areas close early the further up you go.) But, I'm thinking why not go for a new 997?

    My previous experience with a two seater Porsche was a 912 when I came back from Vietnam. Lousy heat, intensive maintenace, and you couldn't keep it in the same lane on an Interstate at anything over 60 MPH in a five mile an hour wind. (And it wasn't even an evil 911!). I dumped it for a Datsun 240Z and never looked back.

    I see a new 997 as providing good high speed fun on the Vermont-a-bahn. But I'm concerned, how stable will it be? In rain? Will it have decent ground clearance for the inevitable chunks of ice? Is the ride going to drive me crazy? Or is it really only a nice weekend car for Greenwich, CT and So. Cal? If I do buy a 997, how should I option it?

    The alternatives that come to mind (beyond keeping and enjoying the Cayenne) don't turn me on: at 61 I still wear jeans and hiking boots so that eliminates an E Class, fourmatic or not, I'm definetely too young for an S Class, an A6 is north of 50K but lacks panache, a Saab Aero will have front spoiler clearance problems, a new '06 Tahoe is fine to beat around in but for 700 mile weekends on an Interstate?, etc.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    I'll try.
    Stable? Yes, very!
    Rain? The 997 is the most refined Porsche yet. I like the 4 (AWD) version and you might want to consider it for your part of the country.
    Ground clearance? Less than your Cayenne.
    My 997 C4 Cab rides great, very comfortable, not darty or harsh.
    Here are a few URLs ending with a video by a certified Porsche hater (TopGear).
    Enjoy,
    Don

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0509_porsche_911_carrera/

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/intellichoice/369_0512_review_2006_porsche_9- 11_carrera/index.html

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060109/FREE/51229005/1011/L- ongtermTests

    http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=12776

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/RoadTest_Summary.asp?RT=211162

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2955604540330137242&q=top+gear
  • Don,

    Thanks for your thoughts and the link. Seeing Jeremy in action is quite a treat. Wow! I wouldn't have thought only 92" or so inches for WB and 4.8 cubic feet of trunk. Hardly enough room for two gymn bags when we go to the Montreal Athletic Club.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Good news: The bonnet trunk is complimented by a rear seat that would work fine for your two gym bags.

    Bad news: Not only less ground clearance than your Cayenne, but I suspect less than the Saab Aero. Better take a tape measure to your Porsche dealer yourself.

    Verdict: If you only have one vehicle to make a Boston to Montreal trek, stick with the Cayenne. If you have a backup vehicle for bad weather, the 911S will make you look forward to the trip.

    Options: I just ordered (non-binding) a 2006 997S Cab in speed Yellow with the following options: Sport Chrono, Sport Shifter, Adaptive Sport Seats, Navigation, Bose, 6-CD, Heated Seats, Self Dim Mirrors, Carrera Classic Wheels, Black Mats. I currently have Sport Exhaust, which sounds great, but at $2,500 would have required a binding commitment to my dealer, which I wasn't prepared to make.

    P.S. I stayed with a C2S Cab rather than the C4S, but I agree with Don. You sound like a good candidate for the AWD "4".
  • I read this board regularly, but have never posted here. I own a 2005 C2 that I purchased in February 2005. Because it is a third car, there is only 2000 mile on it at the one year mark. In talking with my salesman, I understand that the Turbo in the new body style will be out in the July time frame. I put my name on the list of interested parties. I know that the performance will be awesome and noticeably different, but i was wondering if anyone out there has enough experience with the Turbo to comment on maintenance. One thing I like about the normally aspirated model is the long maintenance intervals and the relatively bullet-proof reputation. Any comments on what i might expect with the Turbo? All feedback is welcome.
  • Habitat1, wow! What was the MSRP? You seemingly ticked everything off on the order form except the leather package. Why no leather package or is it standard on the Cab? Incidentally, what is the "sport chrono"? Sounds like a nice watch.

    I spoke with a Porsche sales guy I respect (at Porsche of Nashau) and he feels interestingly that the C4 with its wider track and additional weight has a little bit softer ride than the C2 and that when you come off the gas on the C4 the brakes are preloaded in anticipation of use. (This is now exclusive to the C4 but will soon migrate to the C2). Finally, he thought that the additonal 6K or so upcharge for the C4 would be repaid in a higher resale.

    I'm leaning toward a relatively base C4. I don't plan on attending any track days or even Bob Bondurant. I just want something for some high speed touring. I figure I could get up early on Monday mornings in Montreal and be walking into the company at 9:00 AM with a smile on my face.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Actually, the MSRP for the 2006 Speed Yellow is $102,600, $220 less than my 2005 Seal Grey. My 2005 would sticker out at $105,400+/- in 2006.

    The differences are that I am foregoing the $2,400 (now $2,500) sport exhaust. (Sounds great, but I had to draw the line somewhere). My 2005 also had $220 Headrest Crests and $415 Metal Door Sill Insignias that I'm not getting. Plus, I'm saving $825 on non-Metalic Paint. With that kitty of savings, I added a sport shifter ($765) and replaced the black leather ($1520) power seats ($1550) with adaptive sport seats ($3055). I also opted for the $390 extra 5-spoke "Classic" wheel which, if nothing else, will save me 15 minutes of washing and cleaning time every week over the standard Cab S wheel. The 2006 base price went up $2,500.

    The "Sport Chrono" package has proven to be one of my favorite options in my 2005. The "chrono" half is somewhat frivolous - a stopwatch mounted up on the center of the dash that you can use to measure trip times (or lap times if you go to a track). But the "sport" half is a real treat. Press the sport button in the center console and the throttle response is immediately bumped up to feel like you added an instant 30 horsepower. If you recall from the video link Don provided, you can almost see the driver get tossed back when he activates it.

    You might want to look at Porsche's website and go to the link that gives you individual dealers' inventories. Some dealers list the MSRP of their cars in stock. $102,600 for a 2006 Cab S is probably about average. Every once in awhile, you see a really loaded car - full leather interior, special wheels, etc. - for $110,000+. But you don't find too many "strippers" with much less than $5,000 worth of options.

    My dealer would have wanted a binding commitment from me if I had wanted sport exhaust, full leather, or any "custom" options. However, he also would have wanted a binding commitment if I DIDN'T want Navigation, Bose and at least Power Seats. He indicated that a 911 without those is very tough to re-sell. You might want to consider those options, even on a "base" C4.

    Good luck.
  • Habitat1, thanks. These options can add up. The Cayenne, for example, has a "soft" look leather option (on top of regular leather) for about $800. It makes the seats look like someone wrestled on them on Prom Night. In retrospect I wish I had ordered the Bose surround sound on the Cay. I didn't, reasoning that I listened to only right wing talk radio and country music with 61 year old ears that spent a year behind a 81 mm mortor tube. I now wish I had gone for the Bose.

    I have read in Motor Trend (I know,...) that the full leather interior is almost a necessity.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I have read in Motor Trend (I know,...) that the full leather interior is almost a necessity."

    Full leather looks very nice, but at $3,400, it doesn't "look" as nice as the $2,500 sport exhaust "sounds" in my opinion. I wonder if Motor Trend's opinion that it is almost a necessity was rendered on the old 996 interior rather than the new 997? When I was in the dealership, they tried to tempt me with a leftover 2005 911TT Cab (996) at a very hefty discount. But even with the full leather in that car, it was two rungs down the ladder from the interior of the 997, IMO. They need to sell the 996 Turbo to someone who hasn't seen the insides of a 997.

    Other than the Nav, Bose and Heated Seats (mandatory for a Cab), most of my other options are performance oriented. You can really get carried away on the cosmetic options if you start checking everything like custom colors, painted this and leather that, etc. When I was considering a Boxster S late last summer instead of the 911, there was a 2006 GT Silver/Terracotta Full Leather one that was loaded up with other options for an MSRP of $76,000 +/- at an Ohio dealership. Cancelled custom order. It's still sitting there 5 months later, and I suspect will have to be sold at $5k+ under invoice (I was offered $2k under last September).

    But wait, before I correctly get called on it, the major factor for my possible trade is to go from Seal Grey to Speed Yellow (using my daughters as an excuse). So I guess I shouldn't question anyone else's choice of cosmetic upgrades. ;)
  • td2td2 Posts: 3
    I owned a 2004 996 turbo, I drive it for 2 years (5000+)miles a year and I never had a mechanical problem. The interior quality was horrible though, especially compared to the 997. I am sure that a 997 turbo will be bullet proof and fast, I have one on order. TD
  • I swear this is not a troll. I realize that this is a 911 Forum but consider this. Maserati has an ad in this morning's WSJ for their four door Maserati Quartroporte for 109K. The car looks great, you won't see 20 of them at your next dental convention, has a neat 6 speed stick shift with paddles, a somewhat peaky engine, and gets good reviews. While 109K is more than a base 997, by the time guys like habitat1 get through with their order form they are in 6 digits anyway so there isn't much difference. Just a thought.

    Speaking of paddles, this week's Automotive News reports that Maser finds the paddle shift a hard sell at that price point because everyone (i.e., the Bentley GT buyer) wants an automatic. Incidentally, the Automotive News is THE trade journal for anyone in the industry. For car nuts like us it is like General Westmoreland being put on the North Vietnames Army publications distribution list.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    There are a lot of $100k+ alternatives to consider if you are that uncertain of what you are looking for.

    The 911 is a sports car. That is what I wanted. That it happens to hold my kids in the dimunitive back seat helped justify $35-40k premium over the Boxster S. There really weren't that many true sports car alternatives out there. I drove the $95k Maserati Spyder. Not as quick as the 911, doesn't handle as well as my former $32k Honda S2000, no back seat for the kids, and depreciates like crazy. I do not consider the new Aston Martin V8 a sports car, but rather a sporty GT.

    You appear to looking more for a long distance highway cruiser than a sports car. I could rattle off 10 cars you should consider, ranging from the Aston, to the SL500/SL55, to my personal super sedan favorite, the V10 BMW M5 (which will be available with a 6 speed in several months). But the Maserati Quatroporte would NOT be on my list. EVER.

    You have me by about a dozen years, so I know you are old enough to remember the old Quatroporte. Maserati's answer to the BMW M6 with two extra doors. It was a piece of junk. You got all the fun of Italian maintenance problems without any of the real performance. One poor guy I worked with in 1982 bought one. Don't remember exactly what he paid for it, but I remember he sold it about 18 months later for well less than 50% of what he paid. You couldn't give them away. It just about broke him.

    "While 109K is more than a base 997, by the time guys like habitat1 get through with their order form they are in 6 digits anyway so there isn't much difference. Just a thought."

    Wrong. There is a HUGE difference. While a loaded 911 and Maseratti may cost about the same up front, I can just about guarantee you that the 911 - a perennial leader in resale value - will be worth significantly more than the Maseratti in 2,3,4,5+ years. After I went to drive the $95k Spyder last September, I was called back with an offer for a pristine one year old one with 9,000 miles for $58k. Do the math.

    Want the cheapest alternative? Pony up $195k for a real Ferrari 430, rather than their downscale division's Q-porte. Drive it for a couple of years. Sell it for damn near what you paid for it. But don't drive it more than 4,000 miles a year. If you actually want a sports car you can drive, you'll be back looking at the 911. Alternatively, if you want 4 doors, a BMW M5 or even 550i 6-speed will get you a lot more pleasure than the pain of a Masserati.
  • Habitat1, yep, I agree with every word. You're right: initial pricing is not to be confused with life cycle cost, of which depreciation can be the largest component.
  • bhubhu Posts: 1
    I'm Back. After a 4.5 year hiatus from the great pleasure of owning a 911 Cabriolet, today I picked up a new Arctic Silver 997 C4 Cab from Danbury Porsche in CT. It feels like all is right with the world again. In 2001, I traded in my 1999 996 Cab for an ML500 when we had our daughter. Lived in the city, so we only needed one car. Last year, we moved to CT, and I got a GX470 for my wife and I got stuck driving the unbelievably problematic ML. I would have stayed with Mercedes for family cars and sedans if their quality-to-value ratio didn't drop 10 leaps below Lexus over the years. Before yeasterday, I had been searching for a new car for literally 4 months. I was indifferent to the whole experience as I was looking at Audi A8, A6, BMW 5-series AWD, Lexus LS430, etc...I was even looking at a 3-series convertible as recently as last week, (I know I just lost my cred with 98% of you here,) since I thought a convertible would be a lot more fun. I was so far into the deal as to have the trade-in all negotiated and my insurance sent in. Overall, a very indecisive shopping experience. Yesterday, my wife suggested that I should probably get a 4WD instead of a convertible, which made sense considering it is winter in CT/NYC. So I started driving down to the BMW dealer to pick up a 5-series AWD though I was indifferent to the prospect of buying and driving a new car, which should have been fun for any guy that loves cars. By some act of the universe, I ended up driving past the BMW dealership over to Danbury Porsche at about 3pm on Friday to revisit a 2002 996 C4 Cab (17,000 miles - $59,000)...which was from a previous non-serious visit a few weeks back. Well, after driving the pre-owned 911, I realized once again that there is no substitute. Covertible and 4WD!! And a car that has any driver grinning like a chessire cat.

    In my state of perpetual grin after driving the pre-owned 911, I took a peak at a new 997 C4 Cab. Even though I was planning on looking at numbers on the used one and knew there was no possiblity of the $98.5k MSRP 997, I mentioned it to the sales manager. Within 20 minutes of looking at leasing scenarios, I pulled the trigger on the brand new 997 without even driving it. By noon this morning, I had my insurance set and by 2PM, I was home. I would have had the deal done within 1 hour on Friday if it were not for the close of business on Friday and if I had not had a prior engagement. And I now feel great again.

    There are two very important lessons is this: If you're well-heeled and love cars, don't mess around, just get what you can afford. As long as you're a guy, you'll love cars that go really fast. Looking at practical automotive options in the $45-70k range is only going to bore you if you've seen the other side of the mountain. The second lesson is this: If you're feeling indecisive, you are very likely to make very poor decisions or even worse...stuck in non-decision mode. When the car fits, it will be no decision at all and you will glide through the process like butter.

    Nothing beats a 911.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    I'm loving my 997 C4 Cab. Got it in November and with the warm Winter (so far) have had the top down many days. Good luck with your new baby.
    What tires did yours come with if you don't mind me asking?
    Mine came with Bridgestone Potenzas.
  • hello everyone..i have been reading this board for a while but i am new to posting here. i am considering buying a 2006 C2 or C2 Cab and i am wondering how much of a discount off the MSRP would be considered a "good buy". aslo can anybody recommend a dealer in the NY area that would give the best prices and is above board to deal with. Thanks in advance.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I would think that $3k-$5k off an ordered car is a fair and decent discount. That's what I was quoted by several dealers when I bought my C2S Cab in September 2005. A few were sticking with MSRP or $1,000 "courtesy discount". I ended up negotiating a larger discount on a car that was delivered to my dealer as a "bonus" allocation from Porsche. However, it also had several options that I hadn't planned on ordering, so the total price I paid was about the same.

    I suspect that if you happened to find a C2 coupe or cab optioned the way you want in stock in NY right now, you could do a pretty good cash deal. But if you wait much longer, the spring fever for cabs will take over, and you will need to wait until next fall. You can check dealer inventories on the Porsche website by locating dealers in your area and clicking on their inventory list.

    As I am sure you are aware, Porsche's option list is a mile long. If you have fairly specific desires, you may be better off ordering it. The 2006 Speed Yellow I have on order would be impossible to find in stock, equiped as I want.
  • If I placed an order for the exact car I wanted should I still expect a discount(if so how much) or is that just for cars in stock? Thanks
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I would think that $3k-$5k off an ordered car is a fair and decent discount."

    That's what I meant. If you order a car to your exact specifications, you would be doing reasonably well to get $3k off; very well to get $5k off. But again, it's a supply / demand equation and I honestly don't know what NY area dealers are willing to do.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Right on about discounts habitat1.
    A cab (I don't think bosco42 gave his preference - coupe or cab) sitting in a dealer's lot "could" bring a slightly higher discount especially on a nice cold snowy day! If I remeber corerctly, New York gets a few of those!
    :)
    And like you said, wait until Spring and forget-about-it.
    Don't limit yourself to the "NY area"; most Porsche dealers will deliver a car to you or you can go pick it up and drive it back home - good way to get acquainted with your new vehicle.
  • Nice post. Please keep us updated on dealership experience and also how the C4 does has your daily driver/winter car.
  • I know it is personal preference BUT I was wondering what the general consensus was about which interior looks better with Speed Yellow. Black or Sand ??? Thanks for all opinions.
  • I am having a tough time deciding with the budget I have whether to purchase a C2 Cab or a C2S Coupe. They would be in the same ballpark money wise. Although I like a Cab I don't know if it is worth it to use only 4 or 5 months out of the year where I live. Is the tradeoff in lieu of a better performing car (C2S) worth it ??
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hey rocketman111,
    First, I have a 997 C4 Cab and I LOVE it! I can also out the top down much more than 4 or 5 months. As much as I love my Cab I still think the coupe has the better lines. Couple that with the amount of top dpown time and your choices of S vs. non-S and I believe I'd go with the C2S coupe. Only thing better would be a C2S Cab or C4S Cab but don't forget the endless and very costly list of "must have" options on any Porsche which can really run up the bottom line.
    :)
  • Just purchased 2006 speed yellow boxster with sand interior for my lady! BEAUTIFUL!!!!!
  • nyc4snyc4s Posts: 5
    In reponse to cab vs. S, I would get the cab. I drive the 997 c4s, and love taking the top down more than the 30 hps,19s,xenons, and sport suspension which I never activate. If you can do it, I would do the c2 cab with the 19s.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Rather than debate between a C2S coupe and a C2 Cab, I think you should try to find a low mileage, meticulously cared for, perfectly broken in 2005 C2S Cab.

    Rumor has it that a Seal Grey with a lot of nice options like Nav, Sport Chrono, Bose, Power Leather Seats, Sport Exhaust.... and will be becoming available in March. It's just a rumor, but supposedly the owner has decided his girls would look better in a Speed Yellow one. And he's looking for a good home for that Seal Grey Cab S at a very attractive price! ;) ;)

    Oh, and Bosco, that will be Speed Yellow with Black interior. I liked the contrast with my old S2000. The Speed Yellow / Sand is a little to light for my tastes.
  • It certainly is something to consider, habitat...Keep me posted. Thanks
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