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Porsche 911

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You haven't left out too many options, but I would consider the "sport shifter". And the adaptive sport seats.

    As for the sport exhaust, it would be nice if there was a way to separately engage it. I would like to be able to utilize the sport setting on the sport chrono for the faster throttle response, without waking up the neighbors. As it is, sport chrono "on" means sport exhaust is "on".
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    Thanks for the input. On the sports shift, do you really think it makes a big difference in how the car feels. Isn't the regular shift a fairly short throw? I still need to try the adaptive sports seats and see if they feel better to me than the regular power seats. As for the sports exhaust, I agree with you that it would have been nice if one could turn it off and still use the sports mode. Also, I know that Porsche states there is no perfomance boost with the sports exhaust. Do you really think this is the case, or that there may be some HP boost, but that Porsche does not want to say so. After all, why would someone be willing to pay close to $17M for the performance package for a boost iof 30 HP if the sports exhaust that comes packaged with it provided 10-12 HP of the 30 HP. I know that on most after market sports exhausts there is a performance boost. Any other thoughts on this?
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    1. You are a dream customer for Porsche . . . that will be one of the more expensive non-cabrio straight 997s you can configure . . . if you're spending that much $$, why not just get a Turbo?

    2. It escapes me why anyone would pay to have a commercial put on their headrest . . . but it's your $$.

    3. Don't forget arbitrage theory . . . you seem to think that you're "getting away with it" in your depreciation avoidance strategy. I'm not sure it's that simple. And, while you are waiting, many of us will be enjoying our C4s all summer long . . .

    Best of luck!
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    $17m is a lot for a performance package . . .
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    Thanks for your comments but I guess I did not mention that I am getting a C4S Cab.

    And, maybe I am a "dream customer" for Porsche. But it is really more not wanted to settle for something that is not everything that I want. I really like the CS4 and want to get a loaded car. I plan to keep the car for a long time. It is my "dream car". I don't see a few hundred dollars for Porsche crests in the headrest being a big deal. I do mind paying an extra $5,000 for depreciation for a few months of use. If a dealer had a 2006 C4S on the lot with the options I want, I might go ahead and buy it. But they are not available the way I want. I am not interested in Carbon fiber or lots of extra aluminum. I also do not want a stipped down car. I could have gotten a pretty loaded 2006 C4S for $8,000 under MSRP but the car did not have the sports chrono option which I wanted. Some options if not gotten at the factory are difficult and much more expensive to add later.

    My dealer said that If I placed my order now, I would get the car sometime in June. If I wait and place my order in July, the dealer said I should have the car by September. Two to three months fly by quickly and I do not mind waiting for a 2007 equiped the way I want it.

    One of the things that Porsche provides its customers is the ability to configure their car the way they want. I am not aware of any other car company that lets a customer select any exterior color paint to match.

    You suggested getting a Turbo instead of a fully loaded C4S. While I would not mind having a Turbo, many of the options I want would still be extra $. So I think a Turbo would cost me $30M more than I am spending. It sounds like some options on the C4S may come standard on the Turbo, like a leather interior, but I would imagine many of the other options are extra $. I saw the photos of the new Turbo on Porsche's website today, and it is a beautiful car. But I am not prepared to shell out $150M +, so I will stick with the C4S Cab.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Sport Shifter: The standard 911 shifter is not bad, but they are definitely longer throws than my former 2002 Honda S2000, which arguably had the best gearbox (not clutch) in the business. So I've opted for the sport shifter in the 2006 911 I have on order.

    Sport Exhaust: Again, because it's tied to the sport chrono on my car, it's impossible to tell if the sport exhaust adds any power/performance. I would not be surprised if it really does add 10+/- hp. One thing is for sure, the $920 sports chrono is a MUST HAVE option. The increased throttle response is dramatic and, even though Porsche claims no added horsepower or performance, that's really hard to believe. It certainly makes spirited driving more enjoyable. I would never buy any Porsche without S/C, even if they doubled the cost.

    Performance Package: At $17k, that seems like money that would be better spent towards just getting a turbo.

    C2 vs. C4: You didn't ask, but I'll volunteer that, when I reconsidered this decision for the 2006, my sales manager (former racing team member) pointed out that, notwithstanding Porsche's published performance figures (which do not show much/any "penalty" for the 4), in actuality the C2 is as quick as the C4S and the C2S is as quick as the C4S w/X51. As he explained, it's not just the added weight of AWD, it's that the C2 drivetrain is more direct and efficient in getting HP to the wheels. He wasn't trying to discourage me from the C4S, he just wanted to forewarn me of the perceived power difference since I was coming out of a C2S. He also pointed out that with the PSM of the 997, you have to really push the car to the edge to get a transfer of power to the front wheels (unlike the 993 and previous). I figured that I wouldn't be driving much in rain or snow, so opted to stick with the C2S. But I wouldn't kick a C4S out of my garage. ;)

    2007 vs. 2006. Clearly, you are better off with a later model year on resale. But how much depends on what you pay. I'd expect another 2-3% price increase. If your dealer is discounting a 2007 order the same as a 2006, I'd go for the 2007, price increase notwithstanding. But if you can save another 3-5% by going with a 2006, the economics become a wash or even in favor of the 2006.
  • barryvonbarryvon Posts: 4
    Amongst your options, there are a few things to consider. The Tire Monitoring is a must. I dont have it on my '06 C2S and I replaced a tire at 500 miles, due to running on low pressure which is disguised by the low profile tires.
    The park assist will leave unsightly bullets at the front and back of your car. The car is small enough to park in tight spaces, and I tend to park my car in the back 40 acres on any parking lot. I have silver with full natural leather,(baseball glove color). Love it! I do like the Cocoa however. At the Detroit Autoshow, I really liked the Black leather dash with Terracotta thread, and a lower dash in terracotta. The doors were two tone to match the dash, very cool! I bet the sport exhaust is nice, however the S exhaust lets out a great note while in Sport Mode, sounds like an F1 under bridge at high RPM.
  • barryvonbarryvon Posts: 4
    Sport Mode with Sport Chrono feels like more HP! The throttle response is outstanding, it seems much faster in Sport Mode. I have the sport shifter, and glad I purchased it for $765.
  • aj911aj911 Posts: 3
    Get the sport shifter - adds a whole new experience of fun
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I don't have the same knowledge base as say Habitat1 to address the option question. But let me tackle depreciation.

    C4SLover thinks that the difference between a new '07 and a used '06 911 will be $5000 plus a two month opportunity cost. I don't think so. Sure, maybe for one magical day in August, that might be the case. But at the midpoint of the model year, say in March '07, clearly there will be a bigger gap between an '06 and an '07. I think that the gap will be much more than 5K plus a potential 2-3% price increase. Afterall, the depreciation curve on a 911 has got to be similar to other vehicles in its class: steep and downward sloping. (As a side point, the car as now envisioned, may drop like a rock with all those hard to residualize options.) The real world gap in September between an '06 and an '07 has got to be 15K without considering all of the options that C4SLover is going to hang on. Before anyone snorts that 15K is chicken feed and not too much to pay to have a Porsche in early summer, let me suggest that if you had put 15K into an emerging market bond fund last year you would have 30K today.

    All in all, at this late point in the year, C4SLover should buy an '07.

    Allow me one comment on options . The list seems overdone. Why for example, TWO options related to cell phones? Don't most people just stick the damn thing in their jeans or shirt pocket when they go for a ride? Or if they are upscale they buy a nice, leather (not plastic) holster from Orvis?
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    Thanks for the comments Was wondering what color top you went with on your silver with brown natural leather interior? I am still undecided on the exterior and interior colors. My latest thougth is silver or grey. Also think the GT Silver and Slate are beautiful but not sure it is worth the extra $2,000 unless I am in love with those colors. I will have to go out and try to see them in person. The Porsche book showed all three and they all look great.
  • aj911aj911 Posts: 3
    The dealer will take about 5% off on a new C2S. What do you think? Buy it now or wait until the 2007? The 2007 will likely have a price increase and there probably won't be any added "substantial improvements" in the new 2007 model year.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Based upon my personal experience, I have to disagree with your math on the 2006 vs. 2007 resale comparison.

    It is March 2006. I have a 2005 C2S with 5,500 miles bought in September 2005. The 2006's were just arriving when I purchased it off the showroom floor. According to my dealer, it is worth approximately $5,000 less in trade in value than an identical 2006 model would be (i.e. also 6 months old, 5,500 miles). So, yes, the model year makes a difference. But so does mileage and time in use. And the moment you drive any car off the lot and it becomes a used car, you take a 10%+ hit, regardless of which model year.

    The actual difference in what I paid for my 2005 vs. the best deal I could have gotten on an identical 2006 was about $8,000, reflecting a much bigger discount and the 2.8% price increase. I would have saved a couple of thousand on options that I wouldn't have ordered, but that would have reduced resale a bit as well. Overall, it's damn close to a wash.

    If you chekc Edmunds or NADA, you won't find anywhere near a $15k difference between successive model years of any 911, with the possible exception of 2004 to 2005 when it went from the 996 to the 997.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Habitat1, you are , IMHO, the guru of the board. To illustrate your case would you present what you think a knowledgable buyer would pay for a used relatively base 997 in a resaleable color for model years 2005 and 2006? This would be straight up, no trade, decent mileage but not a seldom used toy, etc. Thanks.
  • nyc4snyc4s Posts: 5
    Let me end this 2006 vs. 2007 discussion. Life is short, get the 2006 and enjoy. Forget about depreciation and live your lives. I drive my c4s cab at least every other day, and to wait through a summer without it would suck!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I appreciate the compliment, but I am hardly a "guru". I've been a Porsche owner for all of 5 1/2 months. My friend with a 2001 911TT (gettinga 2007 911 TT) has, by contrast been a Porsche owner for 30+ years.

    My dealer thought I should be able to sell my 2005 w/ 5,000 miles for about 13-15% under it's original MSRP (not the current/increased 2006 MSRP), and thought that would be a "fair" price for both parties. He thought I should be able to get on the lower 13% side of that range, since it is only 6 months old and has 3.5 years left on the factory warranty. A one and a half year old 2005 would probably go for more like a 20%-25% discount with correspondingly more miles (15k). However, there are no 1.5 year old 997 Cabs, since they didn't come out until last spring.

    Obviously, the more non-standard options the car has, the greater the discount. In my case, even though the car had $12k in options, most are considered reasonably desireable. He considers the basics: power seats, Bose/CD changer, Xenons, heated seats (cabs). Navigation and sport/chrono are starting to become standard as well. Sport exhaust, full leather interior are not and, in some cases, custom paint and interior to match actually reduce resale.

    Because the Porsche option list is so long, it's tough to give a single fair price for a used 2005/2006 C2 base coupe. Even Edmunds is limited, in that they don't list the Porsche options. That's why my dealer suggested using the original MSRP and discounting from there.

    Good luck. I still know of a 2005 seal grey cab S looking for a good home in 4 weeks to make way for a 2006 Speed Yellow one :) ;)
  • ame546ame546 Posts: 1
    I am considering the purchase of a new 2006 c2s cab that has MSRP of 100800. Given that new models will be coming out soon how much wiggle room do I have with the price. Invoice is 87500 from my calculations. Is a 93K offer realistic?

    Thank you for any helpful replies regarding buying a new 911 since this would be my first.
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    I would doubt you will find a dealer to discount the car that much unless there is something particularly odd about it that makes its marketabilty more limited such as special taste expensive options thatmay not appeal to a broader market such as carbon fiber or some unusual color combinations.
  • aj911aj911 Posts: 3
    You should be able to get about $5,500 off the MSRP
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    depends on where you are. If in CA, you'll be very lucky to get anything close to $4K off.
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    Amen, nyc4s. That is the short version of what I was trying to say earlier.

    In my view, a car ISN'T an investment--and while it may be important to analyze it financially with bond math, ultimately it is a gut decision: "will I enjoy this--and do I want it now?"

    -BS
  • nyc4snyc4s Posts: 5
    Has anyone added wheel spacers aftermarket? If so, can you notice the difference and how much did you pay?
  • mafitchmafitch Posts: 10
    Dweiser, I noticed in a previous post that you are NC based. I am in Raleigh and preparing to place my order for a C2 cab or Coupe. I am torn. In my heart I want the cab but with the summer humidity (I don't love being hot) is it worth the 10K? I previously had a Boxster S and there were times in the summer when the top was up and the A/C was full bore. What has your experience been? It sounds like you are in the mountains which is probably slightly different but I am eager to hear what your thoughts are. Thanks in advance.
  • fergie2fergie2 Posts: 1
    I want a new C4S but can't decide between the cab and the coupe. I drive the coupe now but miss my boxter convertible. How's the cab ride long distance?
  • bpm69bpm69 Posts: 10
    Couldn't you just paint your car and save all the transaction costs of flipping a car?
  • To all that would like to give their thoughts, I am looking at purchasing a New C4 Cab and wanted to know from others that have recently bought what you thought would be a fair percentage off of the MSRP.

    I am looking at a price of $101,600.00 I was hoping to get 5%-6% off that price...Is that reasonable, OR, should I be asking for more?

    Thanks for your help.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    fergie,

    I have driven my 911 Cab 150+ miles on the highway at 75+ and it's quite comfortable, but obviously there is a fair amount of wind noise. I did NOT use the windscreen that comes with the car - it fit's over the back seats (folded) and runs up the back of the front seats. Supposedly, this reduces wind noise, but limits your use of the rear are for storage.

    My kids have endured about 70 miles in the rear seats at 65+ mph with no ill effects. I need to remind them to wear a sweatshirt and their "Porsche" caps, even if it's 70+ degrees out.

    bpm69,

    Repainting a nearly brand new Porsche??? :surprise:

    I like Speed Yellow, but not that much. The paint finish that comes from the Porsche factory is about the best in the world. I took my car into a highly recommended body shop to have a scrape in one of the rear wheels removed. I jokingly asked how much to go to Speed Yellow. About $8,000. And they would not claim to be able to replicate the factory finish process, but could get as close as humanly possible.

    cayenneslook,

    Not sure where you are from, but getting 5-6% off a new C4 Cab would be a heck of a deal in the DC area. Unless it's an odd color and been sitting for awhile. If you are a first time buyer, ordering a car like that heading into convertible season, I would be surprised if the DC area dealers gave you more than 3-4% off. A year ago, when the Cab 2 S had just come out, they were selling at MSRP to $1,000 off. I went to Baltimore and got a better deal in September on a late arriving 2005 that was loaded.
  • Thanks for that information...I am from South Jersey. I had gotten a car from this dealer in the past. I am hoping that will help, plus, in checking out internet deals with some other dealers around the country, I am noticing some discounting going on in the neighborhood of 4-6%.

    I just did not know how realistic that pricing is...That is why I wanted to check with other owners.
    Thanks
  • ds2k1ds2k1 Posts: 101
    There are a ton of C4 cabs out there. Based on what I've seen on some other forums, you should be able to get 5-6% off easy. I just ordered a C2 - harder to find, dealers less willing to negotiate on an ordered car - and got better than 5% off. Make sure you're expanding your search to not just your immediate area, and get the dealers to compete against each other. Typically, if you ask for the internet sales manager, you'll get the best price with the least B.S. And if you're satisfied with a car someone has in inventory, instead of ordering one to your specs, they'll definitely work with you.
  • Great board. Been drinking yall's kool-aid for six months now and am close to ordering my first porsche - a C4S coupe w/ a few options. I'm still wrestling with exterior color, however. IMO all the silvers look great, but those colors are all I seem to see anymore. Is it my imagination, or is everyone going silver? So, I'm thinking Atlas Grey w/ all black leather. There's an '05 C2 at my dealer in that and the exterior is gorgeous, bluish tint in the sun and darker when clouds/night. Any views on Atlas Grey, or my perception that there're now a bunch of silvers out there? Thanks much.
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