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Porsche 911

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "04 C4S Cab is better looking."

    Is this a quote from Stevie Wonder? ;)

    I have yet to speak to any Porsche enthusiasts that don't find the 997 an aesthetic improvement over the 996, inside and out. Although at least the 996 C4 had a better looking back end than the 996 C2.

    But hey, it's all subjective. :)
  • ds2k1ds2k1 Posts: 101
    Does anyone here know of any rumored changes to the '07 997, such as increases in horsepower, standard equipment, price changes, or otherwise? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on an '06 C2 or C2S, but am wondering if Porsche has anything in the works for '07. Specifically, if I buy an '06 C2, I would be disappointed I didn't wait if Porsche had an increase in horsepower/torque planned for the base Carrera.

    Any info anyone has out there would be much appreciated. Thanks.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I seriously doubt you will see any changes to the base and S models of the 997 for at least 2 more years. Porsche is pretty busy getting the other models - GT3, Turbo, Turbo Cab - out in the 997 bodies.

    I've seen it speculated that, if the Cayman S gets a bump in power, the 911's will follow. But heck, the Cayman has only been out for a couple of months and Porsche is supposedly bringing out a non-S Cayman next in that line.

    I also understand from a friend who has a 2001 911TT that the new Turbo is going to have an option tied to the sport chrono package that increases the horsepower from 460 +/- to 520+/-. I think that car will be getting all of the attention from the power hungry crowd and the 911 and 911S will continue along in their current format.
  • msabbamsabba Posts: 6
    I recently purchased a 2001, 911 cab; my first Porsche btw. I'm curious as to what "normal" operating temperature should be. It seems like during mild outside temps the needle hovers around 180, but when the ambient temp increases to 70 or so, the car's temp goes up to around 200. Just worried that when summer hits and it gets to 95 outside what to expect. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks
  • bonn1bonn1 Posts: 5
    I'm about to take delivery of a c4 (my first porsche)- i've seen a few comments about breaking in period - can anybody clarify this for me? any advice/comments would be very helpful!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    My service manager spent 7+ years in various capacities at the Porsche headquarters, including as part of their racing team. so I took his advice seriously.

    His recommendation was simple: Under 4,500 RPM and no cruise control (vary speed) for the first 1,500 miles, and, most importantly, don't turn the key on unless you are going to dive the car for at least 20 minutes to allow all components - not just the radiator water temp - reach full operating temperature. You have two temperature guages - the oil temperature takes a lot longer to heat up and that is the one you want to be checking during break in.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    One of the glossy English car mags (Evo? Cars?) has a piece this month of which options to order with various Porsche models. Their suggestions didn't make much sense to me, either from personal preference or the standpoint of resale. For example, they recommend that one stick with the base, non power seats, don't order Bose, and for the Cayenne to order the rear camera.

    Speaking of glossy UK magazines, I saw 911,"nothing else matters", for the first time and was impressed.

    Incidentally, Habitat1, I came across an old post of yours re: the E Class Diesel which made a lot of sense: while the engine may last forever, the electronics will kill any savings over the long run.
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    I recently made up my mind to purchase a C4S. Rather than go with a 2006 I have decided to buy a 2007. If I order a 2006, I will have it sometime in June. If I wait for a 2007, I can get it sometime in September. So I decided to go with the newer model year which should save me $5,000 on the depreciation hit this year. I am assuming that when the 2007's come out, the 2006's will be worth $5,000 less. Now only if prices on the 2007s will not increase too much. Most of the dealers I spoke with do not expect that given the 2.8% increase in 2006. Will have to wait and see, but even if they increase, I do not think it would be a huge increase.

    I am thinking of adding the following options:

    Full Leather
    Sport Exhaust
    Extended Nav
    Power seats
    Bose Hi end sound
    Module for cell phone
    Sport Chrono
    3 spoke multi-function steering wheel
    CD changer
    Tire Monitoring Pressure System
    Park Assist
    Heated Seats
    19 in Carerra Classic Wheels
    self dimming mirrors
    porsche crests in headrest
    Handset for cell phone
    Wheel caps
    Floor mats

    Options I am not sure about are the power seats (still thinking about adaptive sports seats instead) , park assist (don't know if I will need this, but am thinkin it could pay for itself if there is one scrape backing up), TMPS ( I have seen posts here that it may not be reliable), sport exhaust (it does not add to performance and there is no way to disengage it if driving in sport mode, the stock sound of the S is pretty good without it), and telephone hand set (may not want it if it is not removable. )

    The colors I am thinking about are Seal Grey with stone grey interior and black top, Atlas Grey with Stone Grey interior and Black top). I also like the GT Silver with Black interior and black top or cocoa interior with cocoa top.

    If anyone can offer their thoughts on these options, I would appreciate it.

    Thanks
  • bonn1bonn1 Posts: 5
    thanks for the recommendation - haven't picked up the car as yet but i'm really looking forward to this!
  • bonn1bonn1 Posts: 5
    just got my c4 in - cocoa leather and top with arctic silver - I think it looks fantastic
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You haven't left out too many options, but I would consider the "sport shifter". And the adaptive sport seats.

    As for the sport exhaust, it would be nice if there was a way to separately engage it. I would like to be able to utilize the sport setting on the sport chrono for the faster throttle response, without waking up the neighbors. As it is, sport chrono "on" means sport exhaust is "on".
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    Thanks for the input. On the sports shift, do you really think it makes a big difference in how the car feels. Isn't the regular shift a fairly short throw? I still need to try the adaptive sports seats and see if they feel better to me than the regular power seats. As for the sports exhaust, I agree with you that it would have been nice if one could turn it off and still use the sports mode. Also, I know that Porsche states there is no perfomance boost with the sports exhaust. Do you really think this is the case, or that there may be some HP boost, but that Porsche does not want to say so. After all, why would someone be willing to pay close to $17M for the performance package for a boost iof 30 HP if the sports exhaust that comes packaged with it provided 10-12 HP of the 30 HP. I know that on most after market sports exhausts there is a performance boost. Any other thoughts on this?
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    1. You are a dream customer for Porsche . . . that will be one of the more expensive non-cabrio straight 997s you can configure . . . if you're spending that much $$, why not just get a Turbo?

    2. It escapes me why anyone would pay to have a commercial put on their headrest . . . but it's your $$.

    3. Don't forget arbitrage theory . . . you seem to think that you're "getting away with it" in your depreciation avoidance strategy. I'm not sure it's that simple. And, while you are waiting, many of us will be enjoying our C4s all summer long . . .

    Best of luck!
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    $17m is a lot for a performance package . . .
  • c4sloverc4slover Posts: 8
    Thanks for your comments but I guess I did not mention that I am getting a C4S Cab.

    And, maybe I am a "dream customer" for Porsche. But it is really more not wanted to settle for something that is not everything that I want. I really like the CS4 and want to get a loaded car. I plan to keep the car for a long time. It is my "dream car". I don't see a few hundred dollars for Porsche crests in the headrest being a big deal. I do mind paying an extra $5,000 for depreciation for a few months of use. If a dealer had a 2006 C4S on the lot with the options I want, I might go ahead and buy it. But they are not available the way I want. I am not interested in Carbon fiber or lots of extra aluminum. I also do not want a stipped down car. I could have gotten a pretty loaded 2006 C4S for $8,000 under MSRP but the car did not have the sports chrono option which I wanted. Some options if not gotten at the factory are difficult and much more expensive to add later.

    My dealer said that If I placed my order now, I would get the car sometime in June. If I wait and place my order in July, the dealer said I should have the car by September. Two to three months fly by quickly and I do not mind waiting for a 2007 equiped the way I want it.

    One of the things that Porsche provides its customers is the ability to configure their car the way they want. I am not aware of any other car company that lets a customer select any exterior color paint to match.

    You suggested getting a Turbo instead of a fully loaded C4S. While I would not mind having a Turbo, many of the options I want would still be extra $. So I think a Turbo would cost me $30M more than I am spending. It sounds like some options on the C4S may come standard on the Turbo, like a leather interior, but I would imagine many of the other options are extra $. I saw the photos of the new Turbo on Porsche's website today, and it is a beautiful car. But I am not prepared to shell out $150M +, so I will stick with the C4S Cab.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Sport Shifter: The standard 911 shifter is not bad, but they are definitely longer throws than my former 2002 Honda S2000, which arguably had the best gearbox (not clutch) in the business. So I've opted for the sport shifter in the 2006 911 I have on order.

    Sport Exhaust: Again, because it's tied to the sport chrono on my car, it's impossible to tell if the sport exhaust adds any power/performance. I would not be surprised if it really does add 10+/- hp. One thing is for sure, the $920 sports chrono is a MUST HAVE option. The increased throttle response is dramatic and, even though Porsche claims no added horsepower or performance, that's really hard to believe. It certainly makes spirited driving more enjoyable. I would never buy any Porsche without S/C, even if they doubled the cost.

    Performance Package: At $17k, that seems like money that would be better spent towards just getting a turbo.

    C2 vs. C4: You didn't ask, but I'll volunteer that, when I reconsidered this decision for the 2006, my sales manager (former racing team member) pointed out that, notwithstanding Porsche's published performance figures (which do not show much/any "penalty" for the 4), in actuality the C2 is as quick as the C4S and the C2S is as quick as the C4S w/X51. As he explained, it's not just the added weight of AWD, it's that the C2 drivetrain is more direct and efficient in getting HP to the wheels. He wasn't trying to discourage me from the C4S, he just wanted to forewarn me of the perceived power difference since I was coming out of a C2S. He also pointed out that with the PSM of the 997, you have to really push the car to the edge to get a transfer of power to the front wheels (unlike the 993 and previous). I figured that I wouldn't be driving much in rain or snow, so opted to stick with the C2S. But I wouldn't kick a C4S out of my garage. ;)

    2007 vs. 2006. Clearly, you are better off with a later model year on resale. But how much depends on what you pay. I'd expect another 2-3% price increase. If your dealer is discounting a 2007 order the same as a 2006, I'd go for the 2007, price increase notwithstanding. But if you can save another 3-5% by going with a 2006, the economics become a wash or even in favor of the 2006.
  • barryvonbarryvon Posts: 4
    Amongst your options, there are a few things to consider. The Tire Monitoring is a must. I dont have it on my '06 C2S and I replaced a tire at 500 miles, due to running on low pressure which is disguised by the low profile tires.
    The park assist will leave unsightly bullets at the front and back of your car. The car is small enough to park in tight spaces, and I tend to park my car in the back 40 acres on any parking lot. I have silver with full natural leather,(baseball glove color). Love it! I do like the Cocoa however. At the Detroit Autoshow, I really liked the Black leather dash with Terracotta thread, and a lower dash in terracotta. The doors were two tone to match the dash, very cool! I bet the sport exhaust is nice, however the S exhaust lets out a great note while in Sport Mode, sounds like an F1 under bridge at high RPM.
  • barryvonbarryvon Posts: 4
    Sport Mode with Sport Chrono feels like more HP! The throttle response is outstanding, it seems much faster in Sport Mode. I have the sport shifter, and glad I purchased it for $765.
  • aj911aj911 Posts: 3
    Get the sport shifter - adds a whole new experience of fun
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I don't have the same knowledge base as say Habitat1 to address the option question. But let me tackle depreciation.

    C4SLover thinks that the difference between a new '07 and a used '06 911 will be $5000 plus a two month opportunity cost. I don't think so. Sure, maybe for one magical day in August, that might be the case. But at the midpoint of the model year, say in March '07, clearly there will be a bigger gap between an '06 and an '07. I think that the gap will be much more than 5K plus a potential 2-3% price increase. Afterall, the depreciation curve on a 911 has got to be similar to other vehicles in its class: steep and downward sloping. (As a side point, the car as now envisioned, may drop like a rock with all those hard to residualize options.) The real world gap in September between an '06 and an '07 has got to be 15K without considering all of the options that C4SLover is going to hang on. Before anyone snorts that 15K is chicken feed and not too much to pay to have a Porsche in early summer, let me suggest that if you had put 15K into an emerging market bond fund last year you would have 30K today.

    All in all, at this late point in the year, C4SLover should buy an '07.

    Allow me one comment on options . The list seems overdone. Why for example, TWO options related to cell phones? Don't most people just stick the damn thing in their jeans or shirt pocket when they go for a ride? Or if they are upscale they buy a nice, leather (not plastic) holster from Orvis?
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