Porsche 911

habitat1

Not much to get straight or figure out. Either I'm right, and the guy has no brain. Or dhanley has it nailed as frivolous spam. My vote is for dhanley.

nyccarguy

Wow! We have a celeb here on town hall! Welcome Paris Hilton!

tagman

LOL!

Don't quit now... you're on a roll.

TagMan

habitat1

Back to some level of seriousness, now that I've had a switch fail in my passenger power seat, I've been thinking again about an extended warranty. I still have 2.5 years and 35k miles left on the factory warranty, but if I had to guess now there's a reasonable chance I will keep this car for the long term.

Has anyone purchased an extended warranty for their 911. If so, terms and cost? Others' thoughts on the matter?

bsissi

You can get an extended warranty anytime during the factory warranty. The price varies depending on how long the extended period is, around $2500 - $3000. Check with Autosourcemotoring.com, Steven Leese 408-626-8700. I'm saving my sheckels for one myself. Based on the cost of parts and service rates for Porsche, I think it's money well spent.

bsissi

Either his wife or girlfriend must have taken it, note he tracked it down only.

chrmdome

Hi:

I've had an addiction for Porsche since I was 18 ( 1968 ) and at the young age of 25 bought my first " Porsche " Okay..a VW .. 1976 914 2.0. I was young, fit and thin and had no trouble fitting in it. It was the fastest car in 1st and 2nd gear I've ever owned.. It would smoke the 911 at that time for about the first 3 seconds anyway. So along the way, a few 911s... and my newest purchase in 2005, a new 2006 997s coupe ( custo-ordered). So we have 40 years , more than a few inches and a few pounds added but fitting into the 997 is no problem. I actually have to have the seat moved forward . Now, 2 months ago I went to an auto show and looked at the Cayman. A spiffy little well built machine. Too close on the internal styling to the 997 to suit me but a really cool looking car. Well now, trying to get in the thing. My head was hitting the roof lining, I could not get my left leg in the car and the steering wheel was in my chest with the seat fully back. What is the deal here. The Cayman was really small and cramped. Maybe the market for this car is better aimed at Japan. Way too small for the average American french fry eater....

Chromedome

PS By the way the Cayman board is pretty silent, I wonder how the sales number are going???

tagman

CD,
My first Porsche was a Carrera Targa in the later 80's. I loved that car! And then I got rid of it shortly after buying a Ferrari... and I learned a lesson... as that turned out to be a big mistake. I had the first Boxster order in place for the original '97, and drove it for years. I finally bought an '07 Carrera S Cab this past Thanksgiving, and I love this car more and more with every drive. It is the best 911, inside and out, that Porsche has ever made, IMO. It is so damned good, that I predict that Porsche might very well mess up a perfectly good thing with the next one. Of course, I hope they don't, but from the bits and pieces of info leaking in so far, the front end of the next 911 will look like a streamlined Cayenne... and the led rear lights will not be done well.

The Cayman you mentioned has good body lines, but what else is going for it? Price? It's a good slalom car to dance with a Lotus Elise/Exige, with a mid-engine that BEGS for more power. And the sun never shines inside that tight interior, either... and that's another bad thing, IMO.

TagMan

habitat1

TagMan,

We share a similar love for the S Cab. As do my daughters riding along in the back seat. It's pretty amazing to have a world class sports car that can double as the family car.

However, in defense of the Cayman S, my Acura/Mercedes dealer (who can afford just about anything) has a Cayman S in his multi-car garage. Claims it's light weight and more compact size reminds him of his earlier 911. Personally, while I respect the heritage of the older model 911's, especially the 993, I'm not sure I would want to give up the daily driveability and refinement of the 997.

Sorry about your bad luck on the Ferrari. I had an opportunity to pick up a well maintained 328 at a great price in 2005, but decided I wanted something that was more family friendly and less risky. Maybe when the kids are grown.

tagman

I also have two kids, and they can't wait to sneak a ride in the back!

BTW, it was the 328 GTS that gave me the reality check about Ferrari. Be prepared to have ridiculous things go wrong, and then have to pay $$ beyond your wildest imagination to have them fixed.

Regarding the Cayman... I'd pick a Lotus Elise or Exige S instead... any day. Those cars are glued to the road unlike any other... simply amazing beyond belief.

I've learned that when it comes to a Porsche... it's got to be the 911. Period. At least until something better comes along. I thank God for the current 911... it's just that good.

TagMan

habitat1

Actually, I see where the 997 GT3 beat the Lotus for the fastest slalom time recorded by Edmunds.

I think most Cayman buyers would not cross shop the Lotuses (or is it "Loti"). I owned a 2002 Honda S2000 and, although I loved it, my wife had a tough time enduring the engine noise in the passenger seat. Yet it was luxuriosly civilized compared to the Lotus and looked a lot less "boy racer on drugs". Plus, no disrespect to Lotus, but the Toyota outsourced engine really isn't very impressive. If the car didn't have the curb weight of Lance Armstrong's bicycle, that 4 banger wouldn't cut it. The S2000's engine is an engineering marvel by comparison.

If a Cayman buyer is cross shopping it against the BMW M coupe, Audi TT coupe, or other car more in its category, then I think it is by far the superior car. But, like I said, I'm with you on feeling the 997 is really what Porsche is all about.

tagman

I agree about the cross-shopping points you made. The Lotus is generally not a consideration. It is the exception, and it gets down to basics. It's a purist car in its own right. I recently owned one and the Toyota engine needs too many rpm. The Exige S has solved that now and it is THE Lotus to get. I have NEVER driven a car that stuck to the road like it. It was the special "Sport Elise" version, and it had a special track handling suspension that is not standard on the typical cars. The Exige S, however, is a car to be reckoned with. For track guys, it's an amazing machine, especially for the money. Credit where credit is due.

But we totally agree on the current Carrera S Cab... For my tastes, overall it's the best car I've ever owned at any price.

TagMan

sborowski

Does anyone know why Porsche doesn't have Bluetooth capability in any of their cars? Might this be available any time soon? It seems to be pretty much standard everywhere else these days. Even my daughters Acura TSX has Bluetooth capability.

blckislandguy

A quick read of a Toyota Tundra ad indicates that they have not only a transmission cooler but also a tranny lube oil warmer. I'm puzzled why Porsche --of all manufacturers---doesen't offer an automatic engine lube oil prewarmer. It wouldn't have to be too elaborate, maybe simply something that warms the lube oil for the first two minutes after the car is started. As far as I know, nothing is available in the aftermarket (beyond various block heater that you plug in).

habitat1

Bluetooth? I think if some Porsche engineers had their way, you'd be cranking up your windows and holding your soda can between your legs. The voice activated / touch screen Navigation systems in our two Acuras are far superior in ease of use to the Porsche nav system and the upgraded Porsche Bose sound system is only average at best. Porsche does offer an integrated phone option with their PCM, but it's expensive and my friend who got it says it's not worth it. Maybe bluetooth is coming, but don't hold your breath.

That said, over the past 18 months, I've put 12,700 miles on my 911S and 3,100 on my TL 6-speed. I guess that tells you I'd rather be driving the Porsche while my cell phone goes unanswered than yapping away behind the wheel of my Acura.

tagman

Bluetooth? I think if some Porsche engineers had their way, you'd be cranking up your windows and holding your soda can between your legs.

As habitat1 suggests, Porsche engineers focus on "driving"...consider yourself lucky to have a cupholder.

Seriously though, I think you can expect Bluetooth eventually, as well as satellite radio. In certain locations, there are laws that require (or will soon require) the hands-free use of cellular phones, and while there are plenty of devices you can buy from your mobile provider, it's logical to think that its only a matter of time before Bluetooth is available in the 911.

The current phone option is expensive and requires the memory chip to be swapped from your phone to the car every time you want to use it, or your car can have it's own phone number and then leave a chip in the slot at all times, but then you'd be dealing with multiple cell numbers, which is inconvenient.

It is too early to know if a future factory Bluetooth feature will be available as a retro-fit, as has recently been suggested with the satellite feature, but who knows, it might happen.

If you really must have it now, third-party Bluetooth can be easily added to your Porsche by a professional car radio shop.

TagMan

habitat1

"If you really must have it now, third-party Bluetooth can be easily added to your Porsche by a professional car radio shop."

Any ideal how would that would actually work?

For example, the bluetooth systems in our Acura's automatically detect the phone. There are buttons on the steering wheel that you use to answer the phone or get a dial tone to place a call. In either case, the stereo is automatically muted. The car repeats the phone number you dialed for confirmation, and then you can say "dial". In the case of the TL, there is even a screen in the dash which shows the number of the incoming call so you can decide whether or not to answer. In addition to all of that, the bluetooth systems are linked into the voice activated nav systems, so you can also dial directly any "points of interest" or names/numbers you have stored in the address book.

I'm not sure what you would get with an aftermarket system, but obviously they are not going to add buttons to your steering wheel. I'd be curious as to how it would work, if you know.

tagman

I'm not sure what you would get with an aftermarket system, but obviously they are not going to add buttons to your steering wheel. I'd be curious as to how it would work, if you know.

habitat1 -

Parrot and Motorola are the better known for Bluetooth, but these devices are not fully-integrated. Essentially it's a hard-wired portable-looking component that is partially integrated.

My wife's 2 vehicles are the Acura MDX and Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas. The Acura/Honda system is one of the very best for default voice recognition without "training", because it was developed by IBM for Acura a number of years ago. And it's navigation system has one of the very best graphic user interfaces there is at any price. The Jag's sytem has a voice "training" application that makes sure it learns the driver's voice, instead of just anybody's, and it allows for more than one driver. Unlike the Acura, it adds a telephone graphic user interface to the navigation screen which is a nice touch. All of them automatically "sync" with the phone, after a "pairing" procedure, making most activity automatic, voice-activated, and hands-free, with the exception of a button on the steering wheel. The third-party systems do much of the same thing, but they are not factory built-in, and appear as an add-on device. Some are better looking than others, and better functioning as well. Here are two links for you:

First is Parrot...

link title

after the link, scroll down to "Parrot Advanced Hands-free Car Kits", and select the different models.

Here's Motorola, which you may prefer, because of the different models, and different levels of integration...

link title

Anyone planning on putting a third-party Bluetooth device in a Porsche really should consult with a professional car radio shop, IMO, to make sure they are clear about the product and installation before proceeding.

Personally, I am happy to simply wait and see what the factory does with upcoming models, and see it there is a retro-fit later on. If not, at least there are alternatives.

I hope this was all helpful.

TagMan

habitat1

Thanks much. I'll look into it a little further, but so far I haven't felt too handicapped by not talking on the cell phone while driving the 911.

The Acura hands free system is indeed great, but last year I managed to talk right through an exit on the PA Turnpike. Having to drive an extra 20 miles and then do a U-turn making me 30 minutes late for a business meeting taught me that, even with hands free, your mind isn't always where it should be behind the wheel.

Take care and thanks again for the links.

chrmdome

Greetings: to all on this subject!!!!!

Two things that I never do when I'm behind the wheel in any car that I drive much less my Porsche which is a manual. Eat or talk on the phone. Germans look at driving differently than we do.....driving is for driving not a 4 wheel phone booth, everyone has driven behind the soccer mom who is more interested in talking to a girl friend with her SUV full of kids than driving. Dangerous...yep...I wonder how you would feel if you hit a kid on a bike while ordering your pizza on the way home from work ? Think about it and stay off the phone, you'll be more likey to stay in your lane.

Chromedome.

tagman

I generally agree with you CD, as I prefer to be driving my 997 than yacking in it, but there is the REAL side to life, too.

For example, here in California, starting in June of '08, the law will go into effect that prohibits using a hand-held cell phone while driving. Good law perhaps, and maybe it will free the hands of those chatter-box moms so they can not only chatter over the Bluetooth system, but also put on their make-up while they are driving!

Just poking a little fun about the makeup of course, but seriously, I know for a fact there have been times when I absolutely was doing the right thing by having a phone conversation while I was driving. No, there was not a good or convenient place to pull over, so I don't want to hear that baloney, either. Simple truth is, those calls were important, and they came while I was driving.

At such a situation like that, in a little more than a year from now, I will be required by law to use a hands-free device.... and that means Bluetooth installed in the car, or a Bluetooth earpiece. The other alternative is to have that factory phone option activated in the Porsche, and then juggle the memory chip between phone and car, or just get a dedicated phone number for the Porsche for those occassional calls (which seems like overkill).

Now that we are talking reality, there are MANY drivers in that kind of situation... drivers that don't talk much, but sometimes life deals them an important phone call while they are driving in their car.

Yes, most of us would agree that driving is job one, especially in a nice Porsche... but before you just blow off the whole topic of Bluetooth, please realize that a hands-free telephone system makes total sense in REAL-LIFE for a very large number of folks at some time or another. Responsible use makes sense, but let's face it, it's the world we live in.

TagMan

habitat1

There is a forum called "Should Cell Phone Use be Singled Out" in which use of a cell phone, bluetooth or not, has been heavily debated. Be forewarned - in a less respectful manner than us 911 owners might debate the issue amoung ourselves.

Washington DC already has the law California is getting. Not a lot of my driving is in the city, and I don't have a regular commute, so I haven't felt hamstrung by just not answering my cell phone when it rings in my Porsche in the city.

But I do have some concern about the "let's face it, it's the world we live in" sentiment that cell phone use while driving, hands free or not, is somehow a vested right and should be accepted. We are probably only a few years from having most of our entire urban areas "Wi-fi"-ed. What's next, Nav systems that will convert to internet portals so you can surf the web or check stock quotes while driving?

chrmdome

Yes!

Ditto, my feelings exactly. I live in San Diego. It's not uncommon to see someone yapping on their phone while hugging the white line and making a narrow lane just that much more narrow , flowing along like molasis in March going 45 mph in the fast lane, thinking nothing of it. Accidents, they cause them. The next thing we will see is people changing their pants while driving. It's an obvious danger, hence the law change. How many times have you seen someone change lanes using their side mirror only and not actually looking back. It's very hard to do that if you have a phone crammed in your ear with your shoulder. If I got hit by someone the first thing I would do is subpeona their cell phone records...dead give away for who was at fault. It's called inattention and that presumes fault.

Chromedome

tagman

What's next, Nav systems that will convert to internet portals so you can surf the web or check stock quotes while driving?

Well... before I get slammed for being the "messenger" with my "let's face it" perspective... You should all know that BMW is hard at work in doing exactly what you mentioned in your post... namely hooking up the internet to the car, and believe me, it's coming. Really. So, while I do share and respect your perspectives and opinions, I realize there's even more of this technology headed our way.

So, I'm not debating the pros and cons of it all here, I'm just saying that cell phones in cars are in fact a reality of life, whether anyone wants to face it or not. Next step is actually satellite TV, which will start in the '08 models, but only Chrysler (in that case, maybe also Benz?) has the exclusive first year rights to use this new Sirius "Backseat TV" service, and shortly BMW will roll out internet in the vehicles.

So... like it or not (which is another forum to debate)... that's the real world of technology we are in and about to be in.



TagMan

circlew

Imagine my fear when I saw in front of me a 16-wheeler with a driver on a cell making a right turn last week!

Regards,
OW

circlew

I agree that tech will propagate over all aspects of driving soon on the public roads so we can "communicate" while we "commute" in pure safety.

Regards,
OW

topspin628

It looks to me like you are very well educated on the 911. I hope you could answer a few questions for me. I love cars and have sampled all of the top makes over the years (BMW, MB, Lexus, Infinity)and I'm wondering if a P car is in my future.
The thing is, I need a good daily driver, something that can handle the cold Northeast at least 90 percent of the time (not in 6-10 inch snow but would do ok in some light powder or a bit of slush and at cold temps.) Do you use yours as a daily driver? Do you find it comfortable? Has it been reliable?
Tell me as much as you can or would like to about your experience.
Thanks

dhanley

" I'm just saying that cell phones in cars are in fact a reality of life, whether anyone wants to face it or not."

Reminds me of cartman saying "Whatever! I'll do what i want!"

habitat1

I do use my 911 as a dialy driver in the DC area, although I do not have a daily office commute. The car is very comfortable and with the PASM set at normal, the 19" wheels are no more jarring than the standard 17" on my TL 6-speed.

Other than a "check engine" light that came on once (no problem - claimed interference with my aftermarket XM radio) and my most recent power seat failure, it has been very reliable over 18 months and 12.7k miles.

However, I am now writing you from Erie, PA and it has been snowing off and on for 24+ hours. I can see where the northeast isn't the best place for a 911. I would just recommend you have another car to use in the slop.

kennygoodboy

Hello all - have a question about winter storage - whats the best way? (how is that for a general question). I live in Chicago, just procured an extra garage spot and i dont want to do anything stupid next winter. Should i get a cover? (garage is shared, my neighbor's car may track in salt and dirt) Do i need to start her up every so often? Any basic guidelines would be appreciated.

Ken

Mr_Shiftright

If it's a concrete garage, you should consider installing a small fan under the car to circulate air. If you use a cover, be certain it is breathable, NOT waterproof. And yes, most definitely start it up and drive it around the block or better yet far enough to get oil temperature up to 160 degrees at least, whenever you can.

If the garage is wood, you have fewer problems with moisture.

Also check for critters like mice in your garage and set traps if you see droppings.

kennygoodboy

thanks. Garage is wood. I will ask my dealer for a breathable cover when i pick up my car in June. Cant wait!

Mr_Shiftright

You might still want to consider that small fan in there.

A light dust cover is fine. If you can't start it up and drive it, consider a fuel stabilizer.

dagsmcd

Looking at a used 2006 997s with a host of options: adaptive spt seats, full leather; phone module; navi; sport chrono plus; self dimming mirros; sport shift; heated seats and multi funct wheel. 15000 miles.

Dealer is only moving a grand off of his list price(anyone care to take a guess at the list?). Its not CPO but can be for another $1595.

Thoughts? How much more room do you think he has?

bsissi

Sometimes the dealers perform a thorough inspection on the vehicles which are near perfect then they jack up ($5K-$7K) the price and sell you a "certified" vehicle with 7 yr warranty. Either way they have thousands of dollars room, but they aren't selling to kids with a little piggy bank. I got mine from a porsche enthusiast who makes a living getting people their cars at auctions. You set your price and he'll do the inspection, bidding and perhaps get it for less than your top bid. His name is Don Alvord, 408 799-5156, tell him Brian referred you.

habitat1

I have no idea what the dealer may be asking for the car, but in my opinion a fair price would be 20%-25% off the original MSRP. 15k miles is a fair amount for 2006. I suspect the in-service date is fall 2005? I would consider going for the CPO warranty (7/100?) for $1595. I'm considering an extended warranty for my 2005 (new 9/15/05) and am looking at $4k +/-.

Also, I would hope it has new rubber all around within the last 2-3k miles (documented). If not, that will set you back close to $2k.

dagsmcd

Thanks Habitat-- was hoping you and the other "vets" would weigh in. Price is 75900 without the CPO (which I would get for 1595 more). In service date is late 2005.

One prior owner and the service history looks OK, although the PCM unit malfunctioned and was replaced at one point. Price seems good though. Tires have only one summer under the belt as winters were swapped on and off.

thesnausage

Help. I am looking at my first porsche and can only afford about $60K. I am considering a 2004 911 Carerra Anniversary Edition with 14,000 miles and I can get it for $60K out the door and it is certified pre-owned. I believe this gives me another 3 years of warranty and up to 100,000 miles (likely the 3 years will pass first). Is this a fair deal. From a reliability standpoint, should I be concerned about buying a 2004. FYI I test drove an 06 Cayman S and although it was fun to drive, I felt claustraphobic (I am 6'2" and weigh 220 lbs.

Any help is appreciated.

habitat1

That price sounds a little high, assuming the original MSRP was probably around $90-92k? You should be able to get a brand new 911 C2S for around 7-9% off, so anything less than 20% off for a 1.5 year old one w/15k miles would not seem worth it to me.

On the tires, I would still inspect for tire tread life left. My rear tires went from "fine" at 10,800 miles to "replace ASAP" at 12,500 miles. Between tires, mounting and balancing I spent $1,025 for the pair. And that was a better deal than Tire Rack.

Good luck whatever you decide.

bsissi

I think $60K is a steal at that mileage. Check Kelly bluebook, you'll find that the extras included in the anniversary model are worth $6k alone, and 25 more HP puts it just below the "S".

vwguild1

Your CPO Warranty on this C2S will run for 6 years or up to 100,000 miles from the original "In Service" date. Will have a "Brake Flush", Oil Service and Tires if needed...4MM tread depth is the minimum...

I would also be careful about accepting 20-25% discounts or 7-9% either at face value...All depends upon the the Market, the car, and the Dealer...and all differ from coast to coast. Only 162 new C2S sold in March in the US...Allocations remain tight...

chile96

i'd jump on that 40th Anniv car. Even though it's a CPO, go ahead and pay another dealer or independent shop $250-300 for a thorough PPI. There may be a reason why it's priced so aggressively.

Don't think because it's a CPO, you've got nothing to worry about. THere are things it does not cover. And also, if you're paying $60K for a car, you don't want it to be in & out of the shop monthly even if the issues are covered under warranty

habitat1

"I would also be careful about accepting 20-25% discounts or 7-9% either at face value...All depends upon the the Market, the car, and the Dealer...and all differ from coast to coast. Only 162 new C2S sold in March in the US...Allocations remain tight..."

Spoken like a true salesman.

My recommendation to anyone hearing the pitch that "allocations remain tight" is to check out inventories on the Porsche website of dealers in their area and even out of state. You may be surprised to see not only many C2S's sitting on dealer lots - included some leftover 2006's - but also more than a few unsold 2007 911 Turbos.

The four (4) DC area dealers all told me in July-September 2005 that the C2S Cab I was interested in was a hot car and "allocations remained tight", as an excuse to make me feel like a $2,000 discount was a big favor. A Pittsburgh dealer immediately offered to discount a new, made to order car by $5,000 or anything in their inventory by $7,000. I was prepared to go that route until a Baltimore dealer agreed to a $10k+ discount (10%) on a brand new 2005 C2S Cab they had in stock. Both the Pittsburgh dealer and Baltimore dealer have shipped several cars to the Arizona and California where dealers apparantly think their customers are to lazy or dumb to surf the internet.

And, for the record, not only do I get excellent service at the one local DC dealer I take my car in for service at - the new sales manager has personally assured me he would not let my business slip away the next time.

There are no "tight allocations" on any 911, save for the GT3. Take what a sales person says with a large dose of salt.

vwguild1

Thank you for reinforcing my point...Different markets, different cars, different dealers...

Time of year is important here as well...July we are already ordering for the next model year, and into September
the snow is right around the corner; so your timing was excellent. And for reasons that I will never know...some of the prettiest cars cannot find a home and sit for months. We had this experience with a beautiful Atlas Grey C2S Cab with Full Grey leather...sat here for close to 10 months...Finally someone said, "Perfect combo for me".

In 2006 PCNA built and sold 12,045 911s, all flavors including 15 Carrera GTS. Divide that by 196 Dealers in the US...not a lot to go around...Some get more; others get less.
And the same can be said for the RS, only worse. some got 3-4, some got 1-2, others got none...

You are also correct about 997 Turbos...The bigger Dealers that received larger allocations probably refused to complete an order list hoping for a few folks that might be a bit spontaneous and sell them for a bit more than MSRP. That's the gamble that some will take...On the other hand, to spend over $125,000.00 for a car that someone else ordered would not work unless it was a perfect fit for me...

nyccarguy

We took our annual trip to the NY auto show on Sunday morning. Every year Porsche has more and more cars open. This year there were more cars open then not. I had the pleasure of sitting in a 911 C2S Coupe. If there weren't dozens of State Troopers and a flight of steps, I would have driven that car right out of there! What a beautiful car! All you people who get to drive these magnificent machines should be very happy and proud of yourselves. I'm definitely going to own a 911 one day (a day far, far away).

bsissi

Dress up, drive your nicest car to a dealer. Act sincere about planning to buy, the salesmen are bored to death standing around. They will let you drive them not just sit.

kyfdx

Sometimes... you can get a drive, even if you show up in an old Honda and jeans...

bpm69

I am looking for a 07 targa c4s. My dealer won't have it in the color I want and will have to source it from another dealer. How much off MSRP can I expect?

vwguild1

The question is confusing...

thesnausage

Brian,

Can you please tell me what you purchased and how much you paid and when this took place. Also, how did you settle up with Don for the price of the vehicle?

thanks