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Porsche 911

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  • "If I was going to be the only driver, I would probably opt for the manual tranny, but my wife is the one who wanted the P- car in the first place. We test drove the Carrera S 4 and my wife really liked it....I expect a little zip and the acceleration on the Carrera was nothing special."

    What you do to please your wife is none of my business, but since you seem to be fishing for opinions...

    1. A C4S Tiptronic would be significantly slower off the line than a C2S 6-speed. Numerous road tests of the C2S 6-speed put it at 3.9 to 4.2 seconds in 0-60. That's not far off the 996 Turbo and at least halfway to the 997 Turbo from the C4S Tiptronic that you drove. Not to mention, $10,000 cheaper than the C4S Tip.

    2. A Tiptronic, at $3,400, has zero or negative value on resale. This is true of Boxsters, 911's and, especially the Turbo. It's not necessarily reflected in the "book values" but, as we all know, prices are heavily negotiated when you go to trade or sell a car. A 911 is not an SL (thank goodness). Most serious sports car enthusaists that shop Porsche want a 6-speed and that factors into resale.

    3. The cost of a Porsche Performance Driving school starts at around $1,800. Two of you could go for the price of a Tiptronic.

    My point in all of this (if not evident) is that if you (a)are really worried about the resale of the Tiptronic (b) you don't want to have an "obsolete" Tip when the DSG comes out, (c) you would probably opt for the 6-speed yourself then .... help your wife to learn how to drive a stick. It's not that hard. And is a lot more fun. Even with the slightly faster tiptronic in the Turbo, according to my brother, among his Porsche employee friends, there is not a single driving instructor or race team member he knows that would take the Tip over the 6-speed manual in their personal Turbo.

    I don't mean to try to impose my own preference for a 6-speed on you or your wife. But there is so much more to the driving experience of a 911 than mashing your foot on the gas. I had a chance to trade the C2S I had on order for a Turbo. I would have done it, but it didn't have the sport chrono package.

    It sounds like you and your wife have made it and deserve a little self indulgence. Ordering a 997 Turbo 6-speed and then, before it arrives, taking off a long weekend for the Porsche driving school would be a romantic alternative. And the best alternative for future resale. Humor me - think about it. ;)
  • Here is a couple of pics of the Alumimum console, it doesn't look tinny. Some people like it and some don't.

    image

    image
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,067
    That looks great!! My concern is if it would be easily nicked or dented?

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    "Can the people you talk to hear you easily over the engine growl? That is supposed to be the problem with the Porsche car microphone. If you do not take many calls in your car, it might be okay. I conduct business calls from my car so for me, this is important."

    The voice quality is average to be honest. I conduct business calls as well and find the SL better in this respect (Mercedes also have bluetooth).

    The good thing about the Porsche phone module is the caller ID part as it mutes the music. Sometimes I prefer to pull aside and actually turn off the engine to properly talk. Regardless of which phone you use in the car, the idling/engine noise is fairly noisy in my opinion.
  • Redsoxgirl,

    You must be female (RedsoxGIRL) and coming from a female makes your point all the more relevant. My wife is a sweetheart, but she is very stubborn. I will run it past her for sure but I do not expect miracles. She has emphatically stated that she does not want a stick shift. I suspect that while she has no interest now in learning, once she learned, she would have a BLAST. In fact I am almost sure of it. The problem is that once she makes up her mind, that is pretty much IT. I doubt if she would change her mind even if I threw the Rolex into the bargain but I will run it past her. I just thought it would be pretty bad if she asked for the car and then I was selfish and got the car for me. Wish me luck!
    By the way, the dealer agreed IN WRITING to let me move to the DSM tranny line without losing my deposit if Porsche started taking orders before the car was delivered to his dealership (probably April). I guess I have a chance of getting the new tranny, but I might have a better chance if I was in a longer wait line.

    Thanks for your help.
  • Thanks for going to the trouble, Tom. I am kind of neutral on this option. It does break up all of that black which is good, but $730 is still a big hit for a little paint. The carbon fiber option which is also available doesn't do much for me because the color just blends in. If you are going to spend the $, I think the option needs to be noticeable.
  • So far so good. I don't think it can be any worst than the "regular" console. I had the regular black one and had someone painted it to get that factory "aluma look". It's cheaper than what Porsche would charge but it did take me 2 hours to uninstall/ install it
  • No trouble at all. I didn't like the carbon fiber look on the console. If you decide to stay with the regular console or leather. I think the CF e-brake and shift nob (or even the steering wheel) would look good and help breaking up the interior a bit.
  • I don't talk on the phone in the car, nevertheless, I wanted to make it a little quieter, so I ordered sound proofing material from b-quiet.com. I bought the 1/2 thick stuff - it weighs 8 pounds for an 8 foot-square section (4x2). I installed one piece of it from the base of the back seat upto the rear window (my P-car does not have the rear speakers behind the seat). I plan on putting it on the sides, where the rear wheels are, and perhaps under the rear seat, but have not gotten around to it. I have not measured the effect with a decibel meter, but subjectively, I think it does reduce the engine noise somewhat.
  • From your response to redsoxgirl, you sound like the twin brother of the guy who was trying to swap his Tip for my 6-speed: Initially considered an SL55. Wife preferred 911 but refuses to consider leaning how to drive a manual. Fifties and ready to splurge on a sports car...

    In any event, regardless of your transmission choice, I'll strongly "second" the suggestion of redsoxgirl to take your wife to a performance driving school. If she has never learned how to drive a stick and is "very stubborn" about learning and/or getting one, is it fair to guess that she has little or no experience or skill in driving a high performance sports car? Unless you are going to set the governor at 55 and limit her to trips to the beauty salon, I think a Porsche or Skip Barber weekend course wouldn't just be fun, but prudent.

    Do not make the mistake of thinking that the PSM and AWD of the 480 hp Turbo will make up for a lack of driver skill. I could put my wife in a 1970's Honda Civic and she would avoid accidents that would send her friends to the hospital or morgue in their 2005 BMW's. But as a young adult, she had an Alfa Romeo and an uncle who was a semi-pro driver for Jaguar teach her how to handle a sports car. It literally sends chills up my spine when I hear of someone about to go from 30-40 years of driving family sedans, minivans and SUV's to a Porsche Turbo or Ferrari 430. Not as much as the rich idiot parent giving their 16 or 17 year old a BMW for their birthday, but not far behind.
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    From your response to redsoxgirl, you sound like the twin brother of the guy who was trying to swap his Tip for my 6-speed: Initially considered an SL55. Wife preferred 911 but refuses to consider leaning how to drive a manual. Fifties and ready to splurge on a sports car... >>

    You don't suppose that was me, do you :-)? No, it wasn't.

    In any event, regardless of your transmission choice, I'll strongly "second" the suggestion of redsoxgirl to take your wife to a performance driving school. If she has never learned how to drive a stick and is "very stubborn" about learning and/or getting one, is it fair to guess that she has little or no experience or skill in driving a high performance sports car? Unless you are going to set the governor at 55 and limit her to trips to the beauty salon, I think a Porsche or Skip Barber weekend course wouldn't just be fun, but prudent.

    I think it would be a BLAST to go to Porsche driving school. In fact, I think I WILL.
    As fas as my wife goes, I showed her RedSoxGirl's response and she said "I just won't drive it then." You see what I am up against, folks. STUBBORN, STUBBORN, STUBBORN.
    Anyway, you guys convinced me about that new DSG tranny and I E mailed my salesman and he agreed to put me on the tentative list for the DSG Turbo. I just hope I don't have to wait too long. BUT I plan on getting the SL in the meantime so I won't be too, too misearble.


    Do not make the mistake of thinking that the PSM and AWD of the 480 hp Turbo will make up for a lack of driver skill. I could put my wife in a 1970's Honda Civic and she would avoid accidents that would send her friends to the hospital or morgue in their 2005 BMW's. But as a young adult, she had an Alfa Romeo and an uncle who was a semi-pro driver for Jaguar teach her how to handle a sports car. It literally sends chills up my spine when I hear of someone about to go from 30-40 years of driving family sedans, minivans and SUV's to a Porsche Turbo or Ferrari 430. Not as much as the rich idiot parent giving their 16 or 17 year old a BMW for their birthday, but not far behind. >>

    Oops..... COINCIDENTALLY
    I gave my daughter a Beemer when she turned 16. She has done okay so far and she's almost 18. It is a little 325i -not too powerful- and she is a girl and doesn't drive crazy.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    Thanks the installation looks a little hardcore on the web page. Do you have pictures of your installation?
  • I haven't done a proper installation, like you see on their website. The Porsche dealer printed out instructions for removing the side and rear panelling, but I have not had the nerve to actually do that - afraid I might damage something... The dealer actually said they would install the stuff for me, properly, but I had just got the car and did not want it messed with, so I did the following. Hope you can picture this. I covered from the bottom of the rear seat-backs up to the rear window. It takes a bit more than one 4x2 sheet. The large area behind the rear seats upto the rear window was done with one piece, trimed to fit. Behind the rear seat-backs was done with an additional piece. Velcro, glued to the material, can be used to hold it in place if necessary (although I have not done that yet). The visible part is black, and my interior is black, so it is not too visible, nevertheless, I may cover it in velcro someday.
    B-quiet makes several types of material - I chose their heavy stuff ( I think it is called LComp ). So if you were to get 1 sheet of it, cutting it to fit behind the seat would not be a lot of effort - but it may not make enough difference for you either. BTW, it seems that folks who install car stereos know something about these things...
  • Re: Thanks the installation looks a little hardcore on the web page. Do you have pictures of your installation?

    Oops, I should have just said, I do not have a picture, instead of rambling on...
  • Reality check: Either you are putting us on or I am in the wrong business.

    Like you, sign me, WOW!
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    Thank you for the detailed notes hotrod88!
  • I have owned six 911's over the last thriry years, all having 6 speed transmissions. I am currently driving a 2004 Carrera 4S Coupe, which I love, but spend a lot of time in rush hour traffic and was looking for an "easier way". I test drove a 2007 S with Tiptronic Shift last week, and was somewhat bothered by the "lag" when accelerating both on the highway and into and out of curves. I have held an SCCA racing License and also attended many driving schools, so I have more than casual experience driving these cars. I'm not saying that I won't purchase the Tiptronic, but I would definitely advise anyone considering the purchase of this vehicle to test drive both the standard and Tiptronic shift prior to purchase.
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    Thank you. I think I will hold out of the DSG tranny. I doubt if that will have much of a lag. By the way, what is anyone's opinion on the luxury supple seats? Do they wear well? I have heard conflicting comments. Also, is it sacrilege to put supple (puffed luxury) seats in a turbo?
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    I have seen the supple seats and don't like them, a little out of place like wood steering wheel in a sports car.
  • A Porsche dealer has a 2006 911 with 2000mi on it. The MSRP was 78820. I was hoping to get it for 65K, but the lowest they will go is 67.5K, which is about 14% off. It's in service date is 07/07/06 and is not certified. I've been looking around and think that their price is fair, but wanted to see what others think. It's hard for me to stretch above 65K though. I thought I'd call back in a week and see where they are with things.

    Searching on the Porsche webagent, their price seems good, as most of the dealers with 2005 cars that want less have over 20K miles on them.

    Here are the details and thanks!

    Silver with black interior
    Bose
    Heated Seats
    Electrical seats
    dimming mirrors
    Xenon
    Manual tranny
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Two questions:

    (1) What's the "story" behind the car? Was it a dealer demo or privately owned? If the former, do as you wish, but I wouldn't buy a demo. If the latter, why is it for sale after 4 months? Many legitimate possibilities, but I'd just like to know before dropping $65k+.

    (2) Why isn't it being certified by the dealer? I don't know much about the program, maybe a nearly new car only gets the original warranty?

    Regarding the price, something doesn't add up. The MSRP of a 2007 equiped as you specified is $78,780, according to Edmunds. The 2006 should be $1,100 less - with a MSRP of $77,680 and an invoice of approximately $68,000. Were there other options you didn't list?

    In any event, I would hope that you could do a little better than invoice price on a 2006 that has been driven 2,000 miles. I paid 3% over invoice for my brand new 2005 in September 2005. If this car was traded in by a private owner, I doubt the dealer gave them more than invoice minus 10%. So invoice minus 5% would be what I would shoot for. Close to your offer of $65k. But we are talking a couple of thousand on a $65k+ purchase. If it's the car you really want, I wouldn't beat my head against the wall over $1-2k.
  • Thanks for the info and advice. I forgot to grab the sheet he gave me with the listings, but the car also included self-dimming mirrors, floor mats and painted wheel caps. According to the dealer, the buyer is an MD and gambler who churns cars. He bought this car on 07/07. He traded the 911 and a Cayman S for a Boxster S and a 911 S. He has owned a GT3 and traded it in, too (too stiff). The invoice is, if I recall, around 67 or so.

    Chatting with the salesman and other dealers, you get the impression that they are comfortable to sit and wait all winter if they want to sell cars. It sounded like BS to me at first, but I spoke to other dealers who had 2005s and none of them are budging appreciably. One salesman said they don't mind holding a car all winter because demand is so high in spring that it doesn't matter.

    Thanks again!
  • Oh I forgot-- certification... The dealer had just got the car in. They hadn't decided to do it yet. They might...it hasn't shown up on their website yet. Figure it's another $1600 for that...

    BTW, this dealer told me that Porsche does not permit them to "uncertify cars" or give two prices. In the meantime, two dealerships have done just that when I asked more info on two certified cars. Certification would be more relevant to me for an 05 with an in service date of 09/04, but for this car it's not a big deal.
  • The final option-- TPMS!!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Well, now your $77,880 MSRP on the 2006 reconciles with Edmunds - and the invoice appears to be $67,962.

    Here is the question YOU need to answer, as it has some subjectiveness in it: How much do I need to save to buy a 4 month old / 2,000 mile used 2006 C2 over a brand new 2007 C2 to make it worth it?

    It looks like the 2007 would carry an MSRP of $79,080 (TPMS appears to be standard). I suspect you would be able to get at least a $5k discount in my area. That means a brand new, comparably equiped 2007 911 C2 would run you $74k +/-. Saving $6.5k ($67.5k) for a lightly used 2006 isn't a bad deal, but getting it for $65k and saving $9,000 would be my minimal trigger point. On the other hand, I've never bought a used car, so I'm probably too "greedy". The 2005 (new) C2S Cab I bought last September saved me roughly $8,000 over what a new 2006 would have cost me, but I still had a brand new car that I got to break in.

    As for the dealer claiming to be willing to sit on the car all winter, I think that's half true, half B.S. The reason I got such a good deal on my 2005 last September was that the selling season for 911's was running out (especially Cabs) and having a new 2005 in the spring of 2006 would have been much tougher to sell. It's now November and the car you are considering already has an "in service" clock ticking. One thing is absolutely for sure. If they hold it for another 4 months and end up selling it as an 8 month old car in March, the buyer would have to be an idiot to pay $67.5k then. And the dealer would have carried the car for 4 more months, meaning your $65k offer would have been as good of a deal. I think you are in a good bargaining position. I'd be tempted to write them a chack for $65k and dare them to actually rip it up.
  • Thanks, that's very good advice. Last night, while ruminating further, I looked to see if there were any 2007s in stock that had little to no options. I found one, so I'm checking to see if they will sell it at 5% over invoice. That's actually less than the 2006 and financing is better, too. It's nice to have Xenon etc., but they aren't crucial to me. So, at least there are some alternatives. I like the idea of going out to the dealer and testing the car and writing the check 9a bird in the hand).
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    If you are going for a low option car, I suggest listening to the standard stereo, before going for the $1,300 Bose upgrade. The Bose is not that impressive, IMO. And not necessary in a sports car. Also, the power seat package at $1,550 is not necessary if you are going to be the only driver. The big advantage of memory mirrors and seats is if you are going to have multiple drivers. Heated seats in a coupe are less valuable than in a Cab, as well.

    A distant neighbor of ours has a very low optioned 2005 C2 and he loves it. Only options were xenons and sport chrono. He also got a great "end of year" deal last year. Had been considering an M3, but for only about $9k more, got the 911. As much as I like some of my do-dads, I greatly respect his frugality.

    Good luck.
  • Just purchased a new '06 Carrera S Cab. Did the best job I could and ended up getting 10% off MSRP. Started at 6% told me really could only do 8/9 finally got 10%. '07 looked like 3-4% maybe 5% off cars on lot. This is outside of Philly. Hope this helps.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Congratulations, that's a very good deal. What exactly did you get (i.e. options)?
  • Well, here's the latest: 7% off MSRP or 6.5% over invoice for a 911 from my local dealer. An Ohio dealer, recommended on this forum, agreed to 5% over invoice for a bone stock 911 (metallic paint, mats and heated seats). So, I called a NY dealer and they would only drop the price by $4K (9.6% over invoice). Then I called the NJ dealer where I had tested cars and is closest to my house. They first said 7% over invoice, but then dropped it to 6.5%. The 1.5% difference over 5% is about the cost of going to OH and back, and the dealer (like most) only provides loaners to their buyers. So looks like I'll put in the order tomorrow there. I'm sure I could find a dealer in the tri-state area to do 5%, but this dealer knows I'm closest to them. Also, in NYC it's almost banker bonus time...

    How's that?
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