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Porsche 911

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  • JingleJillJingleJill Posts: 120
    Thank you for the advice everyone...

    I understand having to take care of a Porsche. We have a 1986 911 Carerra Cab.

    We actually went to the dealership looking at Caymans. We drove a Cayman and then drove the Red 911. We decided we should go for a 911. A 911 we would keep, I think the Cayman might get old after a while.

    I agree that $56k is a lot to spend on a used car; I totally agree. But, the 911's are adictive.

    We are still up in the air.

    I'm thinking I should be able to do better on that price of $56k also.

    Then I read where some people think I can get 10-15% off MSRP on a new one if I shop around. That is very tempting also...

    If that darn Cayman had a back seat... ARGGGGHHHHHH
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,696
    One issue to consider is that any high end car will take a further though not major depreciation hit once the NEXT iteration hits the streets in numbers, because then there's the "next new thing" out there. So new models depress the value of the model before, until the old model becomes old enough to be interesting again. Unfortunately, sellers of the last model don't want to be the first to experience this depreciation and they are perhaps priced too close to the new model. Then, people like you start comparing and going, "hmmmmm......"
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Anyone toying with the idea of picking up a car at the factory should read the long link at Post #16886 (June 30, 2006) on the High End Luxury Marque site here on Edmunds.

    This early adopter picked up a Cayman S with his son at the factory. Very early on they had a problem with the flywheel bolts. This is apparently very common on the early Caymans. The factory personnell were not at all sympathetic, didn't return calls (he spoke to 17 people in 48 hours), and he was as good as stranded for these two days. Unfortunately, no one at the factory took ownership of the problem and would help him get the car fixed. Because the guy speaks German he was able to pick up a strong anti-US bias in factory personnel. Apparently the mid level people at Porsche don't realize that the war is over and we , who work a full 12 months a year, won.

    While I've had a great dealership experience with Porsche here in NA, I do see the above attitude coming thru loud and clear in several ways. Take the option list. While a 911 has a list of 71K, no one in their right mind would want one that way for that kind of money. At 71K you don't get leather, power seats, NAV, a rear wiper---this must be a joke, right?, only four basic colors to choose from, etc. etc. So the stripper gets loaded up with 20K worth of stuff that everyone else throws in for free. (Compare the features on a XK Coupe with a list of 74K if in doubt). These Germans play rough.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,128
    From what you describe, that guy who picked up his new Cayman S via European Delivery (ED) really got the short end of the stick. I can't speak for the anti-US sentiment in Germany because I've never been there. It shouldn't matter if the guy and his son were from Zimbabway; there was a problem with the car and it should have been fixed. Most of the ED experiences I've read about are BMWs and have never heard one negative comment.

    I think the fact that Porsche essentially lets YOU customize every aspect of your 911 (Cayman, Boxster, Cayenne) is wonderful. I wish more carmakers would do this. Now granted I'm no where near in my right mind :P but I don't want power seats (manual adjustments work just fine for me, & it is one less thing to break down the road), I certainly don't want a NAV system. I'll take leather & a rear wiper. That Sport Chrono Package might come in handy as well as a set of those beautiful 19" Carrera S wheels. A Sunroof is standard (I love sunroofs)! I happen to like Carrera White (standard color), but if I'm spending $70 something thousand dollars on a car, a few extra hundred to get the color I want isn't going to kill me. I'm not going to comment on the 911 vs. XK8 coupe because this isn't the forum for that. The XK8 isn't offered with a manual transmission, so there is no comparison to be made.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    While a 911 has a list of 71K, no one in their right mind would want one that way for that kind of money. At 71K you don't get leather, power seats, NAV, a rear wiper---this must be a joke, right?,

    There are a lot of reasons to talk yourself out of a Porsche. I talked myself out of a Boxster S in 2002 in favor of a $25k less expensive Honda S2000. And I had no regrets.

    But I similarly have no regrets for dishing out nearly three times as much for a 911S Cabriolet in 2005. And, while the S2000 is perhaps the best sports car from Japan and a legitimate competitor to the Boxster, there really is "no substitute" for the 911 - especially if you plan to use those little back seats like I have.

    You can choose to get bent out of shape that Porsche's option list is a mile long. The S2000 had 0 options. But I would respectfully suggest that you avoid comparing a 911 with a XK, AMV8, BMW M6, or any other car before you spend serious seat time in each. I may not have fully appreciated the 911 after my first month and 1,000 miles, but there is no way I could switch to one of those cars now. You might also want to put it in a historical perspective. The 2007 911 Turbo is cheaper than the 1995 Turbo was. And the 2007 911S outperforms the 1995 Turbo. It's a very good time to be in the market for a 911, extra charge rear wiper notwithstanding.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    While a 911 has a list of 71K, no one in their right mind would want one that way for that kind of money. At 71K you don't get leather, power seats, NAV, a rear wiper---this must be a joke, right?, only four basic colors to choose from, etc. etc. So the stripper gets loaded up with 20K worth of stuff that everyone else throws in for free.

    The 911, Cayman and Boxster are about steering, handling, suspension and drivetrain. Anyone who buys them for any other reason is wasting their money. People like to project luxury onto them and Porsche obliges. It seems that many Porsche buyers think they are somehow getting shortchanged by not slathering on options. I don’t see it that way. Porsche provides an impeccable sports car without one option added. I don’t care what other manufacturers throw in for free, they are not Porsches. Paying the piper for a Porsche is nothing new.

    I think plenty of people buy Porsches for reason other than what I just mentioned only to find out soon enough that the car is not for them, it’s too feral, as if they weren’t expecting a sports car. I have a friend who has three cars, a Cayenne S, a Mercedes S500 and a 911. He and his wife had to get rid of the 911 because the ride was just too hard and it wore them out. They replaced it with an SL.

    You have to crave the ride, that’s where the value is. The options are no substitute and anyone who looks to them for some kind of solace will not own a Porsche sports car for long. They are so-o-o secondary in this ownership experience IMO.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You might also want to put it in a historical perspective. The 2007 911 Turbo is cheaper than the 1995 Turbo was. And the 2007 911S outperforms the 1995 Turbo. It's a very good time to be in the market for a 911, extra charge rear wiper notwithstanding.

    Excellent point. I would also add that you get more with an 07 Boxster S as compared with a 96 Carrera, and eleven years later it costs approximately $9K less. To put it in further perspective those 993s are still very sought after cars and their resale is tip-top, not that Boxster resale is anything to write home about.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The 911, Cayman and Boxster are about steering, handling, suspension and drivetrain. Anyone who buys them for any other reason is wasting their money.

    Amen....

    ...but just in case anyone out there is wondering about gas mileage, I just returned from a trip to our second home (360 miles each way). I averaged 25.6 mpg going (including 15 miles off-highway) and 26.7 on the return trip at an overall average speed of 71 (up to 85-90 on a couple of short stretches). My wife and kids left and returned earlier in our MDX and averaged 20.5 mpg for the same route.

    P.S. I pity somebody that replaces a 911 with a slushbox, slush-chassis SL because they find the ride "too hard". But, to each their own. I also have golfing buddies who buy a new $500 gallon-sized titanium/uranium driver every spring and then shudder when I suggest we actually play a 7,000 yard course from the tips. If I get to that point my wife has instructions to have my life support removed.
  • decisions1decisions1 Posts: 17
    WOW!! I imagine this magnificient 11+ mile stretch of twisting turning road - the Tail of the Dragon - has been a topic of discussion before, but I had never heard of it until I happened to find myself vacationing very close by last week along the southern border of the Smokey Mountains. Fortunately, I had my new C4S handy and had just recently topped 2000 miles on the odometer, so I was able to fully enjoy myself with several runs on a couple of different days. Dweiser, I take it you've had the opportunity to experience this thing? It's difficult for me to imagine a better stretch of road to experience the FULL handling capabilities of a 911, gotta be one of the top 5 best public road stretches in the world to test your porsche, if not THE best.

    Also, the good word is that the car seemed to top everything on the road! It was mostly various motorcycles making the runs (aka, crotch rockets I'm told), and I initially thought there would be no way the 997 could hang with some of those boys. But, I drove behind a couple of different rocket groups, and honestly, I had to hold back 15-20% to keep from running up on them through the turns. :surprise: I was pushing that much harder when I had the road to myself! 2 different beemers were not even close. ;) Fantastic experience, it'll reinforce your original purchase decision (as if); not that I had time to look at myself in the rearview, but I do know I had a wall-to-wall grin on my face during half of each run (I also seem to recall feeling a stretched facial expression of terror the other half of the time!). Do try it if you ever get out that way (just google tail of the dragon); hopefully, will get some cool pictures to share.

    Regards.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Thanks very much for posting your drives on "The Tail of the Dragon" decisions1. I must (sheepishly) confess that although I live in the area (I'm in western NC) I've not made it over to "The Dragon" yet in my C4 Cab BUT I MUST!! Here are some URLs of it including one (last URL) from a Cayman driver.
    http://www.tailofthedragon.com/
    http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon.html
    http://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/0608/road_tennessee.html
  • kyingkying Posts: 61
    Now we have to plan a cross country vacation trip with our C4 to North Carolina and Tennessee.

    The last time my wife and I drove through TN and NC was summer 1978 when we were junior and freshman in college. We thoroughly enjoyed our drive with a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 with several pretty big dents and an undefined color (somewhere between silver, green, and a lot of rust).

    By the way, has anyone driven both the "The Tail of the Dragon" and the Angeles Forest/Crest Highway in SCal? I wonder how they compare.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I'll fess right up that, as they say in South Boston, I still have my First Communion money. So, while I'm hot on the trail of a 997, I'd like to spend as little of it as possible. I wonder what the board thinks about the following:

    1) New '06 or '07 997 C2 Coupe with power leather seats and little else for, say, sticker less $4500-5000.

    2) A used 997 2005 C2 Coupe with 18 K miles for 66K (asking). The car comes in metallic paint, full leather interior, chrono clock, 19" wheels, Bose, power heated adaptive seats, zenons, PASM, sport shifter, CD changer, Porsche emblem on the back of the seats, etc. etc. from a high end, non-Porsche dealer. The original MSRP was 86K. There are other examples out there for roughly the same price.

    My rough analysis is that a new '06 or an '07 will cost about 4K more plus have higher insurance, sales tax, and property excise tax. With the '05 I I'd be giving up 18K in miles, a year or more in warranty coverage, and lower resale down the road. However, I'd be getting 20K (at list) in desireable options for free and save a little up front.

    Any thoughts?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm not going to suggest what would be the right choice for you, because it depends upon a lot of factors, including how long you plan on keeping the car, how much you like those extra options, etc.

    Consider, however, that the used one will need a 20k service and full tire replacement, if those items haven't already been taken car of. Together, that could be a $2,500 +/- ticket.

    On the other hand, the used one is already taking a pretty good depreciation hit, so it won't likely decline as much over the next two years as the brand new one would.

    I didn't have the option of considering a used 997. And a used 996 was of no interest to me.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hi kying,
    If I can help with road suggestions, things to see, etc. for your trip over here, just ask. I've never been on the Tail. You can find me at whitesquirrelart.com
    Don
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Thanks. I hadn't thought about the 20K service and tires.

    You know its funny but living in New England tires seem to last twice as long! What I mean by that is that like a lot of people with European cars we have two sets of wheels/tires per car. As a result tires "seem" to last longer. My Cayenne with 15K miles has a tremendous amound of tire life left in the summer tires. My wife's XC 70 at 75K miles will never wear out the 8 tires she now has. Someone should point out to people who think they are "blowing $1000 on winter tires" that they're not. Incidentally, Ebay is full of Porsche winter tire/wheel deals.
  • kyingkying Posts: 61
    Hi Don,

    Thanks! I definitely will.

    Killian
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    See the new 997 Targa 4 "web special" at www.porscheusa.com?

    Interesting. Many thought this wasn't coming. Particularly interesting the Targa is only in Carrera 4 format.

    -BS
  • harvtharvt Posts: 2
    Bruce Anderson the guy who writes the tech column in Bimmer magizine, recommends that one buy the newest 911 they can afford.
  • svinaiksvinaik Posts: 84
    Folks,

    After lots of deep thinking & meditation, deciding between Cayman S, Cayman Base, Carrera 2, Carrera 4, Carrera S, used , new etc.. etc...!!!!! mortality, immortality and what not...

    just placed an order for 2007 C4 coupe (Tip) with minimal options like Xenon, heated seats & dimming mirrors. I stayed away from any temptations to order any options.

    Fair deal.. get approx. 7.5% off the list.

    Any advice on color combination.. external choices are from Atlas Grey, Slate Grey & Meteor Grey.. and internal from Black, Grey & Blue.

    Any advice from experienced members about any options that I will repent not getting.

    Thanks to Kying, Dweiser & Habitat et el for their contributions to the 911 discussion.

    thanka
  • hotrod88hotrod88 Posts: 17
    You can't go wrong with Atlas Grey / Std Blk leather.
    Atlas Grey looks almost blk in bright sunlight, with a bit more of a bluish tint when the sky is overcast. Sometimes it looks like dark charcoal grey/blk. Very pretty - receive lots of compliments about the color, as in "I really like that color!".
    I also chose Electric Seats, Heated Seats, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, Colored Wheel Caps, TPMS - very happy with all these - there are none that I want that I did not get. Don't really know about "S" verses "Non-S". Not sure if perfermance difference is noticable, nor ride quality. I image that the "Non-S" gets better gasoline mileage. I chose the "S" and am very happy with it. I get around 21 mpg, but am not a very aggressive driver. I get around 25-26 on the highway (according to the onboard computer). Imagine that one would get 19 mpg with a lead foot. I hope you are really happy with your choice!
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