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Porsche 911

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,040
    You'll just have trouble with the Discovery I think and the depreciation on Rover is brutal. Look ANY new car you buy is not an "investment" and ANY new car you buy cannot be justified in terms of "common sense". If we all had common sense we'd be buying 2-3 year old cream puffs with service records, super low miles and an excellent reputation for reliability, and let the other guy suffer the depreciation that starts the minute you drive off the lot.

    But having something that nice and brand new, which is yours from the get-go, has a definite allure.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Ok, I have made the decision Porsche it is! I am going to keep our old Discovery as the back up car if I need to drive the kids anywhere. I clocked day care to my house it is 1.1 miles, I could just go home switch cars and get the kids. I also rationalized that with gas prices skyrocketing, the Range Rover was a waste of money. Ok, I am admittedly looking for an excuse, but still I do hate paying 100 bucks to fill up my car every week. :cry: Wife is getting her RR Sport anyway soooooo..... Going to the dealership on Sunday to take a 911 for a drive and start the process. :shades: So, I am still on the fence about the new or used thing. I could do a new coupe without pushing my psychological threshold of 85k, but I really want the conv. Suggestions? I think leasing may not be right for me, but I wanted to hear if anyone had a different view on it. I plan on keeping the car for three to five years. I am planning on buying the car outright. But, I was wondering if in three years or so if I want to get a new one does the car retain more value as a trade in or if I just leased? Or which is more realistic and honestly more likely, I will have to get a sedan or another SUV, with having older bigger kids, I may just have to sell it anyway (or hide it from my wife somewhere!). I went to the Porsche website and did a three year 12k mile lease for 54,000 total payments. I also wanted to know what to expect about the negotiation in the dealership. I have looked at cars.com and carsdirect and they both basically list the MSRP price as the price of the vehilce. What should I expect when it comes to haggling over the price of the car? I was planning on going to about 4 or 5 dealerships to compare pricing.

    Oh, sorry for the length of my posts, but thanks for the advice that you folks have given me. I hope to have my car by April :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A few responses:

    Leasing: It sounds like you are somewhat similar to me. I always pay cash for my cars, figuring I'll bite the bullet once and be done with it. If I was looking at a BMW I might consider leasing, as they offer great lease rates/subsidies. Porsche doesn't. I would have been stroking a check for about $1,600 per month on mine and that would have taken some of the fun out of it for me.

    Coupe vs. Cab: Where do you live? Climate? As I said, my purchse of the 911 was based on it being a sports car the whole family can enjoy. The Cab does run $10k more than the coupe, but the joy of driving around on a nice day with the top down and the girls hair flowing in the wind is priceless. The coupe is more of a track ready car (no added roll bars required), but for public road fun, the Cab is hard to beat.

    Base vs. S: The initial cost difference looks like $10k, but the S gives you Xenon, PASM, 19" wheels and a couple of other goodies in addition to the more powerful engine. Net difference for the engine is about $5,400. After driving a base 911 a few weeks ago, I think the S is worth it. If you go the base route, I would seriously consider the PASM (Adjustable suspension) option. The base car I drove was harsh over bumps compared to my "normal" setting, but still not as tight around the curves as the S set to "sport". Noticable difference.

    Price negotiation: Good news, Porsche sales are down 12% so far this year and the lousy economy/stock market is on your side. Also, the 997 model has now been out for awhile, compared to when I bought. Bad news, we are heading into prime spring season for buying a Cab, so dealers might be less inclined to heavily discount. I picked up my 2005 off the showroom floor in September 2005 as the 2006's were on the boat. Perfect time to negotiate - and I got a decent discount off from a dealer in Baltimore. But even at that time, some of the DC area dealers were trying to hold to near MSRP. Use Porsche's website to check out dealer inventory online, before you walk in.

    Options: Don't get bent out of shape over the 20 page option list. If you are oredering a new car, keep it simple.

    My car: 2005 997 S Cab, Seal grey, Black Leather Seats, Power memory seats, Navigation, Bose, 6-CD changer, Porsche Sport Exhaust, Sport Chrono, heated seats, self dim mirrors, etc. Current MSRP for an identical 2008 model = $107,385. New 9/27/05 (29+ months). 18,200 miles. Broken-in to perfection. My daughters will kill me if I sell it, but the stone mason is tempting me with added ideas (costs) for our new house. So slip me $ 72,995 and I'll even split you on the cost of an extended warranty to take you past a new car warranty! But you have to take care of it and give me a right of first refual to buy it back when you are done in 3-5 years. ;)
  • lr3rx8lr3rx8 Posts: 7
    of just trying a Porsche for fit. Now I'm a tall guy, and even taller from the hips up - like someone 6'8". I've owned Mazda's as sports cars,the last a 2004 RX8 I got new for just $24K - my daughter shifts it now as her daily driver - now with almost 70K miles on it. Bought the RX8 mainly b/c I fit in it - no other sports car allowed it at that time - I didn't want a convertable anyway, corvette was too small.for me. So I'm driving and turn into the nearest Porsche dealer here in Atlanta - Jim Ellis. Try the Cayman on for size - and its a no-go. The sales guy says try this Targa 4S... fits like a glove! Now I couldn't even get the sunroof version of the RX-8 because of my size - and in the Targa and later a 2S, I'm feeling incredibly giddy. But common sense takes over when he asks me if I want to take it for a spin. Same thing got me to buy a LR3 for my wife a couple years ago, and I don't want to cash in any of my losing investments... So I say no.

    Now I've yearning for a new sports car... RX-8 was as nice a handling car as I've ever owned - I could really fling it around in the Georgia mountains - and I could buy 2 of them for the price of the engineering excellence the Porsche 911 offers... A also notice lots of folks don't use the 911's as daily drivers, and while I wouldn't need to I would not have and qualms using the rotary rocket as a D-D, but what about the Porsche?

    Help! Can you guys talk me out of or into the Porsche?
  • So I say no.

    Good thing you did (say no), or you'd have a much more serious dilemma. When I drove an RX-8 a few years ago with my niece who was car shopping, we both thought it was pretty soft in handling and performance compared to a Honda S2000, let alone anything by Porsche. I'm not anti Japanese - that S2000 was a legitimate competitor against the Boxster back then, but franlky, the RX8 is just a "sporty" coupe by comparison, not a serious sports car.

    The bad news is the 911 C2S will set you back about 3-4 times (not 2) the price of an RX-8. The good news is that it's worth it. As for daily driving, the "S" model, with standard PASM is the way to go - or get PASM as an option on a base car. That allows you to toggle between a normal and sport suspension setting, meaning that you don't have to lose your fillings going over bumpy roads to the grocery store. With PASM, the 997 model 911 is probably the most "daily driveable" of any serious sports car out there. I have put as many miles on my 2007 Turbo over the past 16 months as I have on my M5 during that time, with the M5 only getting some of those miles when I need to carry more than 1 adult passenger.

    I won't try to talk you into or out of a $80k-$100k+ decision. But I will suggest you consider the C2, C2S or even S Cabriolet over the C4S Targa. I am not a fan of how AWD adds weight and dulls the responsiveness of the Turbo (which I am trading for a GT2). And the Targa roof is sort of the worst of both worlds - adds a lot to the wieght of the car compared to the coupe, but doesn't offer the true open air feel of the Cabriolet. Good luck.
  • Habitat,

    Parting with a loaded 2 1/2 year old $107k Cab S with only 18k miles for $73k?! Sounds like you are offering a heck of a deal - that stone mason that is building your new house must be something! Personally, I think you should keep it for that price - you could probably drive it for another year and only lose $5k more in resale.
  • lr3rx8lr3rx8 Posts: 7
    spiritinthesky... thx.

    Yes I know the diff is price is a bit significant... even if I go with a 2005 2S. I was thinking maybe to go the two car route (Get a older 2004 RX-8 and have it track tuned for $20K+ and get another newer one for daily driver....At least with the mazda I can fit four adults if I have too... But I still may keep looking for that magical 2S with PASM for 60K. Gotta see how the market does in the next few months...
  • Two RX-8's???

    I'm with Spirit on this one. The RX-8 is a sporty coupe at best, a "chick car" at worst. I say that tongue in cheek, being female myself. But I don't think $100k of track tuning will put the RX-8 in the category of a Porsche Boxster S, Cayman S or even a Honda S2000 on the track. And I'll leave it up to you to describe how you (a big guy) manage to get 4 adults in an RX-8. A girlfriend of mine that has one claims that the backseat of my 911S isn't that much smaller than hers. Neither are a place for full size adults, according to her.

    I too, do not like to advise other people on how to spend their hard earned dollars. But if I had the choice between spending $65k on a 2-3 year old 911S vs. two used RX-8's with $20k of aftermarket modifications for one, it would be a damn easy decision for me. Kind of like buying Goldman Saks over Countrywide Financial, speaking of the market.
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Okay,

    Went to the dealership, drove the 911 Cab, I am in love with the car. Bad news is that if I go new it could take three to four months to get the car. He had one on the lot a new 2007 Cab 4S which he claimed was invoiced at 114,000 and it was "discounted" to 99,000. I don't have the options list. It is going above my 85k budget, but I was wondering if it was worth it. Any thoughts?

    Thanks
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    The price is incredible on the C4S Cab, but only if it was a 2008. It is a year old and you'll get some more depreciation from it when you drive off the lot. It simply isn't worth the money they are asking for it right now.

    I've got an idea for you. I currently have a 2007 C2 Cab with 4,400 miles on it for $82,795. This vehicle is certified and that adds an additional 2 years or up to 100,000 miles on the warranty. (That's bumper to bumper.) In addition, this is a transferrable warranty.

    If you'd be interested in this vehicle, then the hosts can pass along my information to you. I do work for a Porsche dealership!

    Good luck!

    -moo

    Edit: Just FYI, the dealership I work for is seventh in the nation for volume. That means that we have a much better selection to choose from both new and preowned. I can help!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Not to get in the middle of your "negotiations" with gtmaguire, but how in the world is your "idea" a better deal for him??

    He has been offered a $15k discount from MSRP on a heavily optioned ($15k+ of options) NEW leftover 2007 C4S Cab. I'm not sure what options your base (non-S) C2 Cab has on it, but the base MSRP on that car was under $83k new and most of the ones I have seen are lightly optioned compared to the C2S or C4S models. Assuming your car had $7-10k in options, it may have stickered for around $90-$93k.

    I don't know about you, but from a "value" standpoint, I'd much rather have a new car with a $15k discount and break it in myself than get a $7-10k discount on a used car with 4,400 miles on the odometer.

    Absolute price constraints aside, you'd have to offer him that used C2 Cab for something like $70-73k before it was a competitive deal to the $15k discount on a new C4S. Don't get me wrong, if you can get $83k for a used car that only stickered for about $90-92k, I'd be the first to congratulate you. It means my C2S cab may be worth more than I thought.
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Thanks for both of your posts. I need more information from Moo about the 07' The host can forward your information to me. Where are you located? The price seems high unless there are some very nice options. Based upon what I want options wise I can get a new for about 9k more. You may have seen my posts and see where I stand on price.

    Hab,

    So you think the C4S is a decent deal? I e-mailed the dealer for the options package to get a better idea on the car. Only down side is, it is not the color I like. I wanted midnight blue......
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    As an aside to my other questions.

    What about triptronic? I have had five manual cars and I am honestly getting a little sick of driving in traffic with the manuals. I know the whole spirit of the man and machine melding stuff that you get with the stick, I do enjoy the responsive nature of the stick, but it is getting a bit old with me. I was just wondering if going with the automatic isn't such a bad idea. I also thought I read an article that the automatic is actually a faster car anyway. And this car is going to be a daily driver for me in very heavy Long Island Traffic.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Hehehe.... Ok. Everyone has an opinion. I'll discuss the particulars with gtmaguire.

    -moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    I'm in GA. You can click on my name and access my e-mail through there. I can send you pictures through e-mail and the options list. It really is an outstanding vehicle.

    -moo
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Hehehe back, if you feel uncomfortable justifying an asking price of $7-8k under original MSRP for a 1+ year old used C2 Cab. I'd have a tough time explaining that one with a straight face myself, since the car probably sold for about that price brand new.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I think the new C4S discount of $15k off MSRP is a decent deal, only if that's pretty darn close to exactly the car you want. Personally, I am not a fan of the "4" over the "2". It provides better wetweather traction, but at the expense of more added weight and a less responsive feeling and initial acceleration. Not to mention that it adds $6k to the price and decreases fuel economy by 5-10%. I have driven both and prefer the C2S to the C4S, but that is "opinion".

    However, the "alternative" Moo has offered you is absurdly priced. The MSRP of brand new 2008 911 C2 Cab is $83,800. Control yourself on the options to the tune of $8,000, negotiate a discount of $7,000 +/- and bingo, you are in a brand new 2008 for under $85,000 - in your color choice, with your options, that you can break in yourself. You'd have to be nuts or worse to buy a (potentially) 1.5 year old one with 4,400 miles for nearly the same price. I'd want to save at least 15-20% going the used route over new.

    I am not picking on Moo. The dealership that I have my car serviced at is just as greedy, when it comes to used cars. Thanks to the internet, everybody knows the facts on new cars - MSRP, invoice, etc. Dealerships have been knocked down to making $5k-7k or less +/- on a brand new car. But on used cars, the sky is the limit, if they find a desparate seller and a buyer with more dollars than sense. That C2 that Moo is offering for $83k. My guess is that the dealer gave the owner $65k or less for it on trade. If I'm wrong, have him fax you the signed paperwork.

    Lastly, if you do go the used route, consider dealers as well as private sales, but don't get duped into thinking a Porsche certified extended warranty is your only protection.. It does NOT cover everything, excluding things like electronics, nav systems, "cosmetic" items, etc. I learned this speaking with Porsche NA customer service, when I inquired about getting an extended warranty on my car. He indicated that the extended warranties offered through some of the private carriers are more inclusive than Porsche's. The Porsche warranty is effectively the company's way of supporting the dealers trying to sell used cars for top dollar.

    Good luck, and don't let emotions get in the way of financial prudence.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Hab, you're way off. I'll check when I get into work, but IIRC the original MSRP was 111k.

    I don't feel uncomfortable about asking for profit at all. That's kind of my job. We have to find the right vehicle for our friend first though. Let's work on that.

    -moo
  • bpm69bpm69 Posts: 10
    $111M for a C2 cab, not unless it had some crazy options.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    but IIRC the original MSRP was 111k.

    If that's the case, they need to open a new asylum in Atlanta. $30,000 worth of options on a base C2 Cab wouldn't just be crazy, I think it's damn near impossible. The highest price I saw for a C2S cab when I was shopping was $109k and that was with a custom to order color and full custom color leather interior. Anything over the basic $8k or so worth of options is heading towards a complete waste of money, new, used or repossessed.

    As for you asking for a profit, I agree - you shouldn't feel guilty about that in the least. I'm certainly a believer in free marekt capitalism. I was just pointing out to our "friend" that he needs to be extra prudent in assessing a used car deal. A new C2 or C2S cab is the same whether you buy it in Atlanta, DC or Timbukto. But every used car is a little different in mileage, condition, etc. And from what I can tell, some dealers try to make up for their diminished bargaining power on a new car by overly aggressive pricing on a used car. If one Porsche dealer is charging $3k, $5k or $7k more for the identical new car than another dealer, it's easy to figure that out quickly, as I did in 2005. But, as best I can tell, it's damn near impossible to get a consistent fair market value for a used 911. Edmunds, KBB and others don't even list half of the options on my car. It's a throwback to the, "Come on in and we'll talk about price" days before the internet.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Ok, things calmed down around here and I have a chance to post again. You guys are right. I was mistaken on the original price. It was $91,660. (Leeeetle bit off there. :surprise: )

    I understand where your pricing mentality comes into play. I think I'm more thinking along the lines of how much our friend is looking to spend. I think the deal on the 2007 is good, but he's still about 15k over what he was wanting to spend. It's all about what options are important to him as well.

    Regardless, if he wants the extra help, I can certainly work towards that.

    As far as the Tiptronic question goes: We sell a fair amount of them, but my personal opinion would be to go with the manual. I've always enjoyed the feel of the manual much more than the Tip.

    it's damn near impossible to get a consistent fair market value for a used 911.

    Well, it's tough to get preowned 911's on the lot. We don't put anything on the lot that has had previous paintwork, so that narrows our vehicles down very quickly. Then you need to find the vehicles that you can certify as well. That narrows the market even more.

    These are all fun decisions though. Which vehicle to go with? Porsches have never been and won't ever be a "need" vehicle. This makes it easier to enjoy the process of finding the perfect vehicle.

    -moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    It does NOT cover everything, excluding things like electronics, nav systems, "cosmetic" items, etc.

    The warranty does not cover:

    Batteries damaged from storage.
    Batteries damaged frmo lack of use.
    Tires damaged by road hazard.
    Tires damaged by premature wear.
    Parts that fail due to lack of maintenance.
    Normal wear and tear.
    Cleaning and polishing.
    Lubricants.
    Air conditioner refrigerant charge.
    Glass breakage.
    Vehicles with branded titles (manufacturer repurchase/repair, flood damage, totaled - both structural and constructive - salvaged, VIN altered or removed, non-North America VIN
    Unauthorized modifications.
    Wheel balancing and tires.

    The electrical system is covered. The central information screen is covered as well. For the amount of protection that you get from the Porsche certification, it's a no brainer to go with it. The cost on it is $1,549. Check out how much the cost would be for an extended warranty through a 3rd party and find out what kind of parts they would be using for the repairs.

    The Porsche certification is a no brainer.

    -moo
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Thanks Habitat for some excellent advice. So I used Edmunds and priced my car with options. This set up would make me very happy. I am going the triptronic route, it gives my wife the ability to drive the car. Any must have options that I excluded? What should I expect to pay? Can I get close to my 85k price point? Moo I am a bit far from you in georgia.

    2008 Porsche 911
    Carrera 2dr Convertible (3.6L 6cyl 6M)

    Optional Equipment
    $11,335 $9,638
    249 5-Speed Tiptronic S Transmission
    $3,420 $2,907
    475 Porsche Active Suspension Management System
    $1,990 $1,692
    403 19" Carrera S Wheel
    $1,550 $1,318
    680 Bose High End Sound Package
    $1,390 $1,182
    P74 Bi-Xenon Headlamp Package
    $1,090 $927
    E9 Midnight Blue Metallic
    $690 $587
    635 Parking Assist System
    $530 $451
    342 Heated Front Seats
    $500 $425
    CUL Windstop w/Colored "Porsche" Logo
    $175 $149
    V9 Cabriolet Top In Black
    $0 $0

    Destination Charge
    $860 $860
    Total with Options
    msrp invoice
    $95,995 $83,690

    And an I-pod integration kit.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Drop the PASM. That's a good way to get closer to that 85k target. I don't know your driving habits, but I doubt you'll probably use that much after you get it.

    Of course, you'll have to add taxes, etc onto the price, so you'll probably be a little over $90k on the build after it is done. I would say pay a little extra to get exactly what you want. You''ll be happy you did.

    Looks good though!

    -moo
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Personally, I'd keep the PASM and drop the 19" wheels, HID's, Bose, and Park Assist.

    There, you just knocked $4,500 off the purchase price on stuff that adds nothing to the value, performance, or enjoyment of the car. :surprise:
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Fed,

    Why get rid of the wheels? I truly did not take a good look at the 19's anyway. Is the look that much different? As for the sound system, is the base system good enough, I like my music loud! What option was the HID? The park assist honestly has to do with my fear of my wife driving the car and backing it up!!! Don't really trust her.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    1. Larger wheels add unsprung weight (negatively affects acceleration, handling, and braking) and make for a harsher ride and higher risk of damage (lower sidewall profile on the tires). Seriously, leave the dubs for the gold chain wearing crowd.

    2. As for the stereo, I haven't heard the Bose, but I've heard it's not worth the upgrade - and Porsche is not known for their quality hi-fi systems. Besides, you're buying a convertible sports car - how good can any music possibly sound with 70+ dB of wind, road, and engine roaring into your head? That should be music enough.

    3. HID - high intensity discharge headlights. I had an Acura with them and didn't "see" any big improvement. All my current cars have halogens and they work just fine.

    4. Park assist - why on earth would you EVER let your wife drive?!?! ;)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,658
    You could also save some coin by going with the 6-speed manual transmission over the tiptronic slushbox.

    The wife excuse is just as bad as the traffic excuse for not getting a manual transmission in an amazing car like a 911. Please give it a lot of thought before you place your order.

    You mentioned something a few days ago about Porsche reliability. I read somewhere (maybe Porsche's website :confuse: ) that 75% of all Porsches ever produced are still on the road today. If you check autotrader, you'll see plenty of high mileage 911s for sale that were driven and not worn or garage queens.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    My first suggestion, before you spend any more time contemplating options, is to test drive a tiptronic 911 vs. a 6-speed. It's an entirely different experience and I, for one, would rather have a Boxster in a stick than a 911 in a tiptronic. The tiptronic is not only significantly slower off the line (it's not the same unit as is in the Turbo with it's "launch control" feature), it just doesn't give you that precise, direct control of shift points. To add insult to injury, the $3,500 tiptronic diminishes the resale value of the car down the road. No serious enthusiast will give it a second look.

    That said it's YOUR car and if that's really what you want to keep your wife happy, that's your choice.

    On your option choices, I'd offer three alternatives to consider:

    (1) Minimal options for a tight budget:
    - Heated seats (if you want to go top down at under 55 degrees)
    - Power seats w/ memory (assuming your wife is going to drive much)
    That's it! And you will have a car that holds its value much better than an over-optioned model, so if you want to trade up in a few years, it won't hurt you.

    (2) Moderate options for a little more fun/comfort ; add:
    - Bi-Zenon (HID) lights & Self Dim Mirrors (if you drive much at night)
    - Sport Chrono (the "sport" button is cheap fun, with faster throttle and breaking response)
    - Bose?? (test this yourself - it is a lousy system for the $1,300 they charge, but I haven't listened to the base system)
    I'd still forget the 19" wheels and PASM, especially if you go with a Tiptronic. The standard 18" wheels on the base car look perfectly fine. PASM isn't necessary for a smooth ride in the 18", but is for the 19".

    (3) Sport Alternative (if you can get your wife to drive a stick and find $5k between your sofa cushions):
    - Bag the tiptronic and save $3,500
    - Go for the "S" model. It's $10k+ more, but that includes 19", PASM, Xenons and some other do-dads, along with the 355 hp 3.8 liter engine. You are really only paying about $5,500 for the upgraded engine.
    - Keep Sport Chrono
    - Keep heated seats.
    - Be selective on any other options.

    An easy "forget it" is the wind screen. I've never used the standard one that comes with the car. It wipes out the back seat for my daughters, golf clubs, etc. and takes up too much space in the bonnet when not in use.

    Again, please do yourself a favor and test drive base model 911's with a stick and tiptronic before you make your decision. If you make a mistake on the other options, no big deal. But if you have an $85k+ car that you don't find exhilerating to drive, that would be a travesty.
  • gtmaguiregtmaguire Posts: 22
    Thank you very much. I took your advice to a large extent. I have discussed three models with the dealership. The base, the CS and the C4 I have minimized my options package and decided to go with the stick. I decided to skip the tiptronic. Since my wife is not driving the stick, I eliminated the power seats and limited my options package to mostly what you suggested. I have kept the Bose, because I like a good sound system. I know you don't like the weight added by AWD but I also simply like that extra width on the C4. It is also very likely that on occasion I will be driving in the rain, I felt the C4 might be best for those situations. What do you think?

    For the base I went:
    680 Bose High End Sound Package
    $1,390 $1,182
    P74 Bi-Xenon Headlamp Package
    $1,090 $927
    640 Sport Chrono Package Plus
    $960 $816
    342 Heated Front Seats
    $500 $425
    267 Self-Dimming Mirrors
    $385 $327

    For the S

    I went with
    640 Sport Chrono Package Plus
    $960 $816 $960
    E9 Midnight Blue Metallic
    $690 $587 $690
    342 Heated Front Seats
    $500 $425 $500

    For the C4

    Optional Equipment
    $3,540 $3,010
    680 Bose High End Sound Package
    $1,390 $1,182
    640 Sport Chrono Package Plus
    $960 $816
    E9 Midnight Blue Metallic
    $690 $587
    342 Heated Front Seats
    $500 $425

    I eliminated on the C4 the lighting package
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