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Porsche 911

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  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Skip Barber school and the porsche different schools? I thought they share the same motorsport track outside of Brimingham, but the porsche school is more high performance driving with only porsches and Skip Barber is more racing oriented with different cars. Would like to know which is which before I sign up. More interested in things that will help me on the highway. By the way, I got the Skip Barber book, "Going Faster". Wow, if you like details, this is the book. It explains everything about racing to the nth degree. The problem is you can't learn to drive faster unless you drive faster which may kill you, hence the school. If you don't know anything about high performance driving, like me, then I think reading the book before going to the school will give you a great start.

    Btw, what's up with getting two new cars at the same time, if I'm reading your post correctly?
  • You're right on. I have done the Porsche High Performance driving course at Road Atlanta and also did the three day Bondurant racing course, which, if successfully completed, qualifies you for an SCCA racing permit. They are both excellent courses, but obviously, one is geared to racing and the other is instruction in high speed, high performance driving, in obviously, the Porsche Carrera. I've taken several such courses, including ones for motorcycle, and all are good, and each one, while different, makes you a better driver, both on the track and in the street. Doc
  • upnorth2upnorth2 Posts: 12
    We always wave at each other when approaching. We do not acknowledge Cayennes, they arent real Porsches. Sorry, peace sign is uncool. Raised fingers off the steering wheel is appropriate when approaching at low speed. A quick wave out an open window is OK too. We dont even look at Japanese wannabes although we might glance at other fine German machines.
  • upnorth2upnorth2 Posts: 12
    Hey, Easy on the Continentals! My new 911S came with them and I have been very happy with them. I drive the car hard and got 9000 miles out of the rear tires. The are MUCH quieter on the highway that Michilens and wear better that Pirellis. Michilens are over rated .
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I like the raised finger off the steering wheel - cool. I can see that guy on CSI Miami doing it with shades on.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Don't take my word on the Continentals, do the research and ask around yourself. When I checked, it appeared that in independent tests by Tire Rack and others, they came in last in virtually every performance category. As for your wear experience, you think that's good? Driving "hard" is a relative term, but I got 12,800 out of my rear Pirelli's and am still O.K. at 18,600 on my fronts. Your 9,000 miles is less than a friend with a Turbo got out of his Michelins - and that inculded a few "Friday's at the Track" at Summit Point Raceway.

    The Continentals are significantly cheaper (40%) than the Pirellis or Michelins, so if you are happy with them, that's great. But the more expereinced enthusiasts and dealers I've talked to claimed they weren't worth even the lower price. And, if I'm not mistaken, Porsche has dropped them as an OEM for 2008.

    P.S. As for the Cayenne not being a "real Porsche", be careful with being too snobby! The GT-S 6-speed manual at my dealer that I'm still trying to make time to test drive would probably get around a track faster than a base Boxster or older 911. Or my 911S Cab for that matter, since without a permanant roll bar installed, it's not even permitted on a track. That friend with a Turbo has owned at least 2 Porsche's continuously for nearly 40 years. But never a "Cabriolet". He doesn't say it in front of me, but I know he doesn't consider them "real" Porsches. Or at least not real 911's.
  • I got a little more than 10,000 miles with my Michelins on a 2002 C4S that involved a summer of autocross and track days at Gateway race track. After giving up racing just added four new tires to my current C4S with a little more than 30,000 miles.
  • 07997turbo07997turbo Posts: 31
    DO NOT BUY YOUR TIRES FROM A PORSCHE DEALER!!!!

    They will take you to the cleaners. For what they wanted to charge me for TWO rear michelins, I found I could buy all 4 tires and have them mounted and load balanced from tirerack.com. The Michelins are probably the better tire but I am unhappy with their wear in the rear and am trying a set of pirellis this summer. not a big difference in price (couple hundred bucks cheaper) but I am hoping I get more than 9000 miles on a set of rears.

    And Danica is the first woman to win an indy car race... this year... in japan.... I have it recorded on my dvr if you wanna watch it.:-)
  • upnorth2upnorth2 Posts: 12
    You are right, I asked my Porsche dealer about Contis and as you stated , Porsche no longer puts them on their new cars. As I have good Contis on the front with plenty of wear left, I wanted to just replace the rears. I called around and found the Continental Sport Contact 2 has :P been discontinued. I finally found a pair of the 295's for the rear at $450 ea. This was less than the Michilens but more than Pirellis. I checked a back issue of Car and Driver and found Tire Rack prices were similar when they still stocked the Conti 295's. It seems Pirellis are they least expensive. I realize the Cayenne is a hot SUV but its still a SUV. I have gotten similar comments about cabs not being real Porsches but I think this relates back to a time when the cabs suffered from body rigidity issues that have since been resolved with the 997 model. My cab does weigh a bit more (200) than a coupe but I can hear my sport exhaust far better with the roof down. I dove it at 145mph last summer with the roof down and it was remarkedly turbulent free. My baseball hat stayed on fine!
  • upnorth2upnorth2 Posts: 12
    I have been thinking of buying a radar detector, Am I wasting my money? Do they work? My 911 seems to be a Cop magnet. ">link title
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Back when I replaced my rears last spring, the prices from Tire Rack were approximately Michilens $470, Pirellis, $440, Continentals $310. It sounds like the $450 you were quoted was a Porsche dealer (i.e. full retail) price. My dealer quoted me over $600 on the Michelins and $580+/- on the Pirellis, but ended up matching the Tire Rack price on the Pirellis.

    If you are looking to save money, Bridgestone Potenza Pole Positions are rated very good/excellent in all categories by Tire Rack and are only $280. According to my dealer, they are much better than the Continentals - and are the only "discount" tire he would recommend in lieu of sticking with the Porsche OEM Pirellis and Michelins.
  • jayzzzjayzzz Posts: 2
    WHEN WAXING WITH THE CLEAR BRA, SHOULD I WAX THE BRA?
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    "Arrest me Red.........Do not know if I would want to do that, only harder sell is the speed yellow

    Porsches sell if they are any variation of Black or Silver "


    you should buy the car for yourself not for the next guy. So if you want a bright car, get one. Let say you get $5K less from the bright color after 5 years, that's only $2.74 a day.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Do not wax the clear bra. I happened to be at the porsche dealer when a guy was installing a clear bra on a porsche that was on the showroom floor. He told me to never put any petroleum based product on the bra. He showed me a spray can he uses to coat the bra for protection. I forgot the name, but I"ll try to find his business card and call him. He said you can buy the product at a marine supply house. They use it on boats. He was doing the whole front, all the way to the windshield. The material around the bumper and head lights is lazer cut to the form of the car. The material for the hood is just a sheet of 8mm material. The porsche dealer charged me $750 to do the bumper, head light covers and back of the side mirrors. I thought it was a rip off, but I did it anyway. The installer said some non dealers use thinner material, so be careful.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I was wrong on the price the dealer wanted for the Michelin pilot sports. Was looking at the invoice the other day and the front was $402 and the rear $589. I thought someone at the dealer gave me a much higher price. I guess even these prices are high according to the previous posts.

    I was educating myself regarding the D.O.T. numbers on the tires. One of the front tires was made in 2005 and the car is 2006 which leads me to believe that it is an original tire and I have 14,600 on the car (I've owned it for two months). The tire looks good, believe it or not. I've been told that a reputable dealer would never sell an old (but never used) tire. I'm going to check out the Tire Rack next time, as was suggested.

    I would like to see that race in Japan that Danica won. I spent some time in Japan building houses for a developer and believe me women are really put down over there - like some are still walking behind the man. I wonder how they took a woman winning an indy race?
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Check it out - www.theclearbra.com. According to the site, the clear bra is made of urethane, is porus and will yellow over time. They say it is important to protect it with a product called Plexus, a plastic cleaner, protectant and polish - www.plexusdirect.com.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    We dont even look at Japanese wannabes although we might glance at other fine German machines.

    LOL sounds like you hate japanese cars :P
  • I'm looking at 2004-2006 Porsche 911 Cabs and my mechanic warned me that there have been several issues with the water cooled engines in the 996s (1999-2003). Has anyone else heard of those issues? Have they been addressed in the 2004 (and newer) models? He thinks the the '95-98's have excellent engines but ideally I'd like the newer body style. This is my first Porsche purchase and any advice is appreciated. I think getting an extended warranty would be a good call but again I'm looking for any advice you experts can give. Thanks for sharing...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    I believe what your mechanic is talking about is that certain 996 models developed a leak in the Rear Main Seal (correct me if I'm wrong here guys). The main cause of this is cars that didn't adhere to Porsche's strict break-in procedures or cars that were used for short trips that didn't allow the engine to fully warm up before shutting down. This would be a problem to look for in low mileage cars that are "only driven to the golf course on weekends" Porsches.

    Definitely have your mechanic (hopefully he's knowledgeable about Porsches) look at any car you're going to buy.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    They have an improved seal. It's really more of a design defect (dare I blaspheme?) due to crankshaft design and engine case design, but usually is fixable and it doesn't happen all that often. And if it shows up, it's early in the car's life and mileage. If the new seal doesn't fix it, then you need a new engine or you live with the leak. About $13,000 + labor.

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm looking at 2004-2006 Porsche 911 Cabs and my mechanic warned me that there have been several issues with the water cooled engines in the 996s (1999-2003).

    First, you should be aware that 2004 was the last year of the 996 design, not 2003. Supposedly, Porsche revised the rear main seal / crankcase design for the 997 model (2005+) but there have still been a few isolated reports of leaks.

    According to my dealer (former factory engineer) nyccarguy is correct in that improper break in was often, but not always, the culpret relative to cars that developed RMS leaks. Any used 911 purchase should involve a pre-purchase full mechanical inspection.

    The previous air cooled model (993) is considered by many enthusaists a classic, and it is often worth more than a newer, lower mileage 996 in the used car market. The 996 is considered a bit of a hiccup in the design evolution, with the "fried egg" headlights and more streamlined (less aggressive) looking rear end. The downside to the 993's is that they will be 9+ years old, require more maintenance, and I don't think you can get an extended warranty, The 997 model was designed to be a low maintenance car, with the first regular service at 20k miles or 2 years. I had my oil changed at 10k miles out of anxiety, but was told it wasn't necessary by two factory reps.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I just bought a 2006 911 coup with 13000 miles, certified pre-owned, and I'm love'n it. Can't wait to get home to drive it, and take the long way home when I'm in it. I read that the 997's were 80% redesigned - new and improved. I've heard that a certified porsche can't even have a door panel painted or it would not qualify. If you're a newbie, like me, I think a 997, certified pre-owned from a prosche dealer with the extended warranty and wheel and tire protection, is the only way to go.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    With pasm in normal mode, is the ride on a bumpy road more comfortable than in a base 911 (without pasm as an option)? I read a thread somewhere on this forum with conflicting answers. Some said pasm in normal is just like the ride of a base 911. Some said it was different. What is the real deal? I don't think I could ever part with my 2006 911, but if I did, would there be a benefit of getting pasm for people like me who do not go to the race track?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    With pasm in normal mode, is the ride on a bumpy road more comfortable than in a base 911 (without pasm as an option)?

    From my experience, the PASM option set to "normal" results in a slightly less harsh, more comfortable ride than a base 911 with no PASM. The difference is not huge if the base 911 has 18" wheels, but becomes more noticable if it has the optional 19" wheels. Also, because PASM lowers the ride height and provides some other suspension tweaks, the handling/cornering on the S models with PASM set to normal mode still seems a bit better than the non-PASM base model. When you switch the PASM to "sport", handling is noticably firmer with zero body sway, but the comfort level over rough roads goes down noticably. When I activate my sport chrono/sport exhaust button, the PASM automatically toggles to sport and, unless I'm on very smooth roads, I usually toggle it back to normal.

    PASM is an expensive option to add to a base 911 and, IMO, is one of the reasons prospective buyers might want to consider and S model, especially if they are also going to add 19" wheels and xenon lights. By that point, you are only paying about $5,500 for the engine upgrade and a couple of other upgrades not available on the base car.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    If you're a newbie, like me, I think a 997, certified pre-owned from a prosche dealer with the extended warranty and wheel and tire protection, is the only way to go.

    There are two schools of thought. Yes, the Porsche CPO program has an extended warranty and, one would hope, the dealer will stand behind the car. It's a good program.

    However, also depending upon the dealer, CPO prices can be grossly inflated. I've seen 1 year old CPO cars being attempted to be sold for darn near what a savvy buyer could get a new car for. My dealer readily admits that they make 2-3 times the mark-up on a used CPO trade than they do on a new car. Also, as has been pointed out, proper break in is absolutely critical for high performance sports cars in general, the 911 in particular. Looking eye to eye with a private owner and asking them what they did regarding break in and how they drove the car would be one way to assess this. Lastly, there are good independent extended warranties available - even a Porsche customer service rep told me that some privately available extended warranties cover certain "cosmetic" items that the CPO warranty does not.

    My own experience opened my eyes to the other side of CPO. When my dealer asked me in March if I was interested in trading for a 2008, the trade in value they placed on my car was $18k less than what they were asking for a similar vintage, less well optioned C2S on the lot at the time. When I pointed out the discrepency, that's when they admitted to making a lot more on a used car than new one. The new car sales manager even went so far as to recommend that I sell mine privately, if I had the time. As he explained, many of their trade ins are from "desparate" sellers that got in over their head or had other circumstances that required they get rid of the car quickly. And, unfortunately, some of these desparate sellers were probably not careful about break in, proper warm up and responsible driving. Accidents repairs are not allowed, but improper break in and abuse is hard to detect until it's too late.

    CPO or private-party, it pays to do your research and shop around.
  • 911nut911nut Posts: 7
    My 2002 996 C4 conv. had it's rear main seal replaced 2x, the first I pain and the second the dealer covered the cost, mileage is 41,000. Prior to the main seal replacement the 996 required 1 qt of oil every 600 miles. Post rear main seal, it consumes 1.25 qts every 300 miles. To say the least, this has me very concerned. The dealer has always maintained that the 600 mile consumption is with spec. I have not spoken to the dealer regarding this concern I am hoping to get some feedback before I approach this subject. Originally I had purchased this car with 24k miles. My 2007 997S with 4K miles has not consumed a single drop, even though I track it on a monthly basis. What's up with this? I really love the 996 and don't even consider selling it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    It's certainly not "within spec" that's for sure. Did you mean 1.25 qt every 3000 miles? that would be okay. It's fine for an engine to use a little oil; in fact, probably good for it.

    If it wasn't a TYPO and you are using a quart every 300 miles, you have a serious problem that may require a new short block.

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  • 911nut911nut Posts: 7
    I wish it was 3000 miles. Unfortunately its every 300 miles.
  • bsissibsissi Posts: 14
    I bought a used 2004 911 with 24k miles and discovered that it was using 1.3 qts every 400-500 miles. I had to put pressure on the dealer to replace the engine becuase their magic number is 1.67 qts per 660 miles.. which is bull. You would have to fill the passenger seat with oil for a trip of any distance.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    That's crazy. I can't believe the Porsche factory would issue such a statement in print. Maybe the dealer is just making this up?

    Any consumption under 1 qt per 1,000 miles is alarming IMO.

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