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Porsche 911

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "If you load a 911 Turbo into a C17, climb up to 10,000', and then drop it out the ramp, it'll go at least that fast"

    I don't think even that would do it. A buddy of mine from my college days who was a seasoned skydiver indicated the highest (vertical) speed a human could attain by going into a perfect diving position was about 170 mph (same as a falcon). That's compared to a terminal velocity of around 130 mph for me flopping around like a chicken. And that 170 mph speed was fast enough to catch up to a falling vehicle pushed out of the back of a cargo plane, if you recall from some of those crazy TV ad's and/or "Mythbuster" episodes.

    As for the Autobahn speeds, they happened to have a special on the History Channel recently and it's true, the land speed record, for awhile anyway, was set on the Autobahn at something like 250 mph (by one of those rocket shaped Mercedes, I believe). It utilized about 8 miles of the road to achieve that feat. But further attempts were halted after a crash that killed the record holder and nearly took out one of the overpasses.

    My friend that had a 2001 996 TT modified to 520 hp / 520 ft-lbs at the wheels ran a 10.xx quarter mile and 3.2 +/- second 0-60. Yet the highest speed he ever took his car to on a track (Summit Point, WV) was around 145 and he is an extremely accomplished driver. Although his car was theoretically capable of around 195-200 mph at the Bonneville Salt Flats, the distance needed to get up to top speed would have been at least 2-3 miles.

    So, in the spirit of the TV series, I'd have to agree that any claim of Mach 0.33 is, indeed "Busted". Perhaps it was just a joke to see if any of us were paying attention. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    ...any claim of Mach 0.33 is, indeed "Busted". Perhaps it was just a joke to see if any of us were paying attention.

    Well, spiritinthesky gets the kudos for paying good attention. I wonder how many of the rest of us would have really caught this. As sharp as I like to think I might be, I'll admit I never would have caught it. I'll be more careful from now on... especially on my way to work in the mornings as I travel at warp 2. ;)

    TagMan
  • The last time I checked, the sped of sound is completely reliant on the altitude... none the less, yet another porsche owner has been dissed and leaves this board with a bad taste in his mouth for the people who seem to run this board.

    This board, like any other, is much akin to a book.. if you dont like it, simply shut the cover and dispose of it.

    Consider yourselves disposed of.
  • Last time I checked, YOU were running this board. 11 out of the last 30 posts, the other 19 were distributed among 13 other members, none with more than 3 posts. Nothing wrong with that, just being accurate. As for the speed of sound being completely reliant upon altitude, you might want to re-check that one. From Wikopedia:

    "The speed varies depending on atmospheric conditions; the most important factor is the temperature. Humidity has little effect on the speed of sound, nor does air pressure per se".

    So yes, if you're up there driving your 997 Turbo next to me in an F15 at 40,000 feet, with the air temperature a nice perky 50 degress below zero (Farenheight), you'd be hitting Mach 0.33 at only about 230 mph, not 255. Unfortunately, going to a high desert test track or air strip where it might be a bit balmier and easier to test that turbo's top speed, you are going to need to go even faster than 255 to hit your Mach 0.33. :(

    Try to lighten up. You were clearly going off the deep end and I tried to humorously throw you a rope. If you want to throw it back, that's up to you, but it's not our loss. ;)
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Man , I got a good laugh out of that, ya, scare the hell out of yourself..that is no fun. A little too much drift is not what my 57 year old reflexes are used to....fun never the less.Maybe a little bit more caffine before my next drive. Thanks for the chuckle...

    Chromedome
  • Habitat1 and others, what do you think the selling price should be on a new, repeat new, '06 997 C2 Coupe in Atlas Grey with a MSRP of 89K? The options are minimal but include Atlas Grey metallic paint, Bose, wood shifting knob and some wood trim inside, and power seats. No Sports Chrono, adaptive seats, etc. As I recall it might even be a C2S (the brake rotors were painted red. Is this a tip off that it is the S?).

    The color commbination (Atlas Grey with standard beige leather interior) looks good to my eyes and I wonder why it hasn't sold. (They had a 997 coupe in green with a beige interior that I also thought looked good. They couldn't sell that one for years! I guess that the Porsche market is green adverse.)

    The authorized dealer that has it has a backlog of '06s to sell and his opening discounted price in casual conversation was 79K.

    If a Warren Buffet or a Sam Zell were to analyze this, they would ask what a CPOed '06 with this equipment and in these colors would sell for? They would then try to grab this new-old stock car for that price. What do you think? Is there any factory money "in the trunk" to the dealers on these '06's?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    First of all, I hope that "minimally optioned" C2 is indeed a C2S, for that MSRP. Edmunds doesn't show MSRP's for 2006 any more, but a 2007 C2S w/ power seats, bose & Atlas Grey is $87,095, not including any "cosmetic" options.

    At this point in time, I would think a "good price" on this car by the dealer would be invoice, or even slightly less. That assumes it is indeed a "new" car and would have its in-service date and warranty start as of the day it is sold, not 12+/- months ago whenever they got or registered the car. Figuring a roughly 13% mark-up, invoice would be around $11.5k off MSRP. They are starting at $10k off, so they are at least being realistic.

    Forget what Warran Buffett or Sam Zell would do, do YOU really like this car? You can't be too serious, not even knowing for sure whether it is a base model or a $10k more expensive and much better equiped "S" model (zenon, 19" wheels, PASM, sport steering wheel, etc. all come along with the bigger 3.8 liter 355 hp engine). As best I can tell, the "cosmetic" options of wood shifter and interior are adding roughly $3,000+ to the MSRP. If these are options that you wouldn't order, they are adding to your cost, not your enjoyment and certainly not to resale. The comparison I would make would be against an ordered 2007. If, for example, you could get one at $6k off without those extra options, then getting $11k off with them is really only saving you a net $2k, not the $5k discount. That's a dilemma with almost any "in stock" car - it will inevitably have a few options that you don't want and/or missing one or two that you do (i.e. sport chrono on an "S"). In the case of my 2005 Cab S purchased in September 2005, the differential between my $10.8k discount and my best offer of $5k off a new, ordered 2006 more than made up for taking a few ($1,000) cosmetic items I could have done without. And I also saved $2,800 price increase from 2005 to 2006. I'm pretty sure in your case, the 2006 to 2007 price increase is quite a bit less, and we are now in February 2007, not September.

    Let us know if you turn serious on this one. I think you would be in pretty good negotiating position. You could always make out a check for $76k and see if they rip it up.

    P.S. I may be wrong, but I don't think Porsche does much to put money in the trunk of the car to help dealers sell leftover ones. Shame on the dealer for ordering an odd color combination with wood trim. It might be beauty to your eyes, but its a real hit or miss with the average 911 buyer. These are sports cars, not Bentleys.
  • as both new to the forum (which is great) , and a recent first time owner ---'06 c4 ( which i love more than any other car i've ever owned ) , i was hoping someone can give me additional insight into further winterization from these cold and snowy upstate ny winters. its been garaged since mid dec. , tires over-inflated to 50 pps , full tank of gas , and the trickle-charger. i had an uneventful "break-in" period,using some of the very helpful tips posted here, and was wondering if there was anything else you can recommend re" winterizing...the car hasnt been on the road,or even started up for that matter, in 1 1/2 months...
  • yeah -- make sure you have air ciculation around and under the car. This is especially critical if you store in a concrete or brick, rather than a wooden structure.

    Also, I prefer that the car NOT be covered, but rather just waxed well with perhaps a little WD-40 on the shiny trim pieces (very lightly coated)....or if you do use a cover, it must be a high-tech type that will BREATHE. A small fan under or near the car is a great idea.

    I'd also get the car out and on a ten mile drive if you have a really nice day.

    Your big enemy is condensation which can screw up electrical components under the hood as well as your interior.

    If the garage is heated, well that's just swell then.

    Otherwise, you've got the major bases covered I think. My only other concern is if you have rodent issues where you live. Duct-taping the tailpipe and air filter intake might not be a bad idea, and careful inspection every now and then to see if there are any little critters getting in there somehow.
  • Habitat1, nice analysis per usual. Please understand though, I realize I didn't do enough research but it was late, I was picking up the Cayenne that had been in for service, and had a yoga class to get to 45 miles away. (Tip: every guy over 50 and especially anyone who spent time humping across VN should take yoga to stave off the grouchy old man syndrome and get the kinks out of an abused body.)

    I'm intrigued though. Do you feel that the Atlas Grey/beige leather combination is an unpopular color in the market place? (I agree with the sentiment of the board though that one should spec the car out for your pleasure and to heck with resale).

    Maybe one reason the '06 car sits unsold at the mid point in the '07 model year is not just the color but that the price is wrong? Even at "dealer invoice" it may be too high. Here's why: shouldn't a new '06 be worth no more than a used CPO '06 with a deduction for the low mileage on the new one? A Buffett or Zell would say that the dealer shouldn't expect to get bailed out of a bad decision by having someone reimburse him his "cost". Geez, I've got some Tico stock I'd like to sell at my cost.
  • AH HA, a C4 that lives up near the Thruway but doesn't get driven in winter. Kind of like a cab that never gets to roll the top down. Why spec it that way?
  • Porsche has never had Dealer Incentive dollars on 911s...That said, your point about the "In Service" date is critical here.

    Porsche works on a "Turn an Earn" basis for it's allocation
    process...Sadly, this process can be abused and on occasion a car will be "punched", reported as sold, and that is not the case. However; the meter starts to run on the Warranty.
    This is something to be very wary of when seeing a deeply discounted Carrera.
  • I am thinking of killing two birds with one stone by attending with my brother the PDS in Alabama that is featured on the website - i) as a novice, I really need to learn how to drive my 911 properly (T4S on order, will be delivered in May) and ii) makes for a great 30th b-day gift for my brother. Several questions -

    1) Has anybody attended and can give me and the board a review of the experience? Obviously, very pricy (1,800 for one day or 3,000 for two) but i think well worth it if i am truly taught how to drive my car properly

    2) Also, can anyone opine on the one day vs two day course? Is it worth it to have the 2nd day? And of course, the brilliant marketers offer an advance course for graduates of the two day program (not the 1 day).

    3) The website says they have boxsters, caymans, 911s and cayennes. As a (future) 911 owner, will i be able to drive the 911 most of the time? I think it would be a waste if i drew the short straw and was "stuck" with a boxster the entire time.

    Any opinions appreciated.

    Kenny
  • Great idea!

    My only comment would be is if one were a bad driver in a Boxster, one would end up being a REALLY bad driver in a 911. It would be fine to start off in the Boxster to gain your confidence and then work up to the 911, which is more demanding IMO.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Kenny, your local PCA chapter may let you build a foundation much more cheaply--perhaps after a few autocrosses and driving schools, you might have a better idea whether the porsche event is worth the dinero ,and you'd probably get more out of it too.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "if one were a bad driver in a Boxster, one would end up being a REALLY bad driver in a 911."

    However, an AWD 911 (not the TT) is practically viceless. Easy to drive fast, and very forgiving.
  • Ah, no car is viceless in the wrong hands....ultimately, it's the tires that keep you on the track, so when you reach the limits or do a really dumb thing, 10WD isn't going to help you.

    That's why I like pro driver training so much---good for the newbie driver, good for the rest of us on the road.
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    about the Skip Barber school in Birmingham, AL...I have yet to hear one person who did not think it was the best driving related experience of their life. I regret not making the time to do it while i lived in ATL.

    And you get to drive all the cars. You use different cars for different parts of the school(skid pad, track, etc...) I don't remember which car goes with what except the C2 is used for the track.

    Don't know what to say about 1 day vs 2 day but if your budget/time allows for it, why not???

    Have fun and let us know
  • I have a 07 C-2 & would also like to attend the Porsche or Barber driving school. I took the BMW school in a z4. It was great! The driving school cds are very helpful for general information but nothing is like track time! The Porsche must have a specific technique due to its rear engine. A school dealing only with the 911 would be very useful.
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