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Porsche 911

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  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    This is one of the few forums where I cannot be traced so I have a anonymous question that I would appreciate honest feedback.

    'A gentleman recently saw a car of mine (older ferrari) at a car show and told me he;s interested in buying my car. This car took me 18mos to find(very meticulous and wanted the best of the best). I've never thought about selling the car and always planned to just have it "forever" but he's offering 40% more than I paid for it just 6mos ago. And yes I paid fair market value and it has gone up but not nearly that much!

    Am I crazy passing this up? Yeah the money would be great but some things just aren't about the money. I can't ask my wife because I know what she would say ;)
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Sir:

    I went nuts when I sold my 1976 914 2.0. It had 36k miles afeter 4 years and was in perfect condition. I was always sorry I sold that car because I loved it. The fastest car in 1st and 2nd I have owned. If you actually love the car, don't do it, if it's a step up to a car you will love, do it!

    Chromedome
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    i've decided it's staying. none of the "fun" cars are planning to be sold, just added on to so by the time i'm 50 i should have a pretty good size garage ;)

    and i definitely don't want to be one of those guys who kick themselves for selling a certain car - not gonna be me ;)
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,633
    Don't forget you'll owe capital gains tax, too. :cry:
  • Back in 1979, as a 27 year old single guy with a good corporate finance job, I purchased one of 455 original BMW M1's. I sold it about 3.5 years later after getting married and my wife was pregnant with our first child. I had paid $60,000 new and sold it for slightly more to a collector w/ 25,000 miles on the odometer.

    My decision to sell was not as much motivated by financial need as it was time and interest. I knew that I wouldn't get to drive the car as much with a young family and I also knew that any exotic car of that day required a fair amount of routine maintenance and care. I had a great mother and father who spent all their free time with us as kids, and I didn't want to be tinkering with a car when I could be coaching baseball.

    After the sale, I put $50,000 of the proceeds into an investment account and my wife agreed that, if we didn't use it up to fund the kids college tuition, I could splurge as an old man on another sports car. Well, here we are. I'm an old man (funny how your perspective on being 55 changes when you actually hit that age). We got the kids through college (almost) via other means. I coached baseball. My kids want to vacation as a family, even when they are in their 20's. I've even snuck in a sports car or two in the intervening years, thanks to other good investments. And we never touched the "M1 Investment Account".

    Every once in awhile, when I see an old BMW M1 at a car show or even see a picture of one, I get nostalgic. But I never regretted my decision to sell - it was the right one at the right time. My advice is that if owning a Ferrari is your dream and you feel you deserve it, by all means, enjoy it. But do not think of any car as an investment, think of it as an expenditure.

    P.S. That investment account? It now has a $1,924,000 balance (about 16.5% average annual after tax return over 24 years). If I really get nostalgic, I could buy 15-20 M1's. ;)
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    wow - that's quite a little stash for a rainy day ;) kudos!

    i haven't looked at this car as an investment, rather as one of the cars on my list of "Cars I want to own". It came true and never really planned on selling it unless a financial crunch dictated so. So when I was approached I saw I could look at it one of two ways:

    1. Look at it as if someone just decided to give you an extra $X and not taking this is costing me $X to keep it

    OR

    2. Does this extra $X (if I sold it) have any sort of financial impact on me now? The answer is no but then spiritinthesky's post about $2M - that does have a financial impact on me ;)

    Enough of this, the car is going to grow old with me (Knock on wood) so let's get back to talking about wasting $$$ on Porsches
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    and by the way - thanks for responding to this question non-judgmentally (I am very down to earth but realize how this could come across to some the wrong way)....and sorry for the off topic nature
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Hey:

    Everybody with a brain for Porsches and fine cars understands. If you are a " car guy" you just are... I have lived and dreamed Porsches for 40 years. There is not a day that goes by that I don't look at my 2006 C2S and say " this car is way cool ". I will have it for a long time... one of my ( lucky ) kids will get this one . I have only 2238 miles on it..after 19 months of ownership, okay a garage queen... but it's in absolutely PERFECT condition.

    Chromedome
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "I have only 2238 miles on it..after 19 months of ownership, okay a garage queen... but it's in absolutely PERFECT condition."

    ..After 19 months of ownership of my 2005 C2S Cab, 13,600 miles and it's in PERFECT condition. I think my daughters have logged twice as many miles in the back seat than you have on your car. But if you are happy that's all that matters.

    Part of the beauty I see in the 997 is that it CAN be driven daily. If I had a bit more disposable income and wanted a pure garage queen, I might have been tempted by the Ferrari 430 that I could have picked up for MSRP in September 2005 (unique circumstances). But even though that $190k would now be worth $250k +/-, I wouldn't have had a fraction of the fun I've had with our "family car". ;)
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I have it over a year now and love it. Took less than 15 mins to install.
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Greetings:

    Yes a " Garage Queen " and then we step over to the area of discussing your or my definition of " Perfect " . My description includes: no dents , dings , stone dents , pings, stone chips, scratches , smuges, swirls ( either straight or circular, ) lint on the carpet, stains, water marks, inside window scum buildup, excess crap in the trunk.. back seat or glove compartments, any brake dust on wheels, or brake calipers, or on back of wheels. unwaxed surfaces or unwashed surfaces. Yep I'm nuts about Porsche.. but I have known people worse than me. Here in Southern California there are many car crazy epople. The weather allows you to keep cars really clean and rust free for years..and when you add German anal retentive qualities to ones heritage you get me. My wife knows i'm nuts. Thank God
    I have other cool cars to drive

    Chromedome
  • redsoxgirlredsoxgirl Posts: 67
    We have a couple of generations of "Porsche nuts" in my family. Starting with my uncle who raced for Porsche for over 20 years and my brother who continues to serve as an engineering consultant for Porsche's recing team.

    But I must admit that I would side more with habitat in that Porsches are designed and meant to be driven. The Wall Street Journal had an interesting cover story on Ferrari this week, talking about the 2-3 year wait list on most of theri models. They broke their promise to limit production to 5,000 vehicles a year worldwide and pumped out 5,500 last year. Porsche produces a little over 100,000.

    If you "garage queen" a $95,000 911S for 5 years and 10,000 miles, each one of those miles will have cost you about $4 just in depreciation. If you hang in there for a $190,000 Ferrari 430, garage queen it for 5 years and 10,000 miles, you will MAKE $4-5+ on every one. Yet, if you drive a 911 for 40,000 miles over those same 5 years, the depreciation will not be significantly worse. On a Ferrari 430, you will get creamed.

    Maybe it's because I come from a family of racing enthusiasts that I see no point in admiring, but not DRIVING a Porsche 911. I am fortunate enough to have inherited some original Gustov Stickley furniture pieces and a couple of Picasso's and Dali's (small). They make for a nice appreciating "view" in my condo. But I can't wait to get my 911 C2S to the Porsche track events and, if the end result is a stone chip on the fender, I won't shed any tears. A wreck into the wall would be another matter.

    As far as your definition of "Perfect", you obviously have high standards. What is your definition of "Cool" as in your other cars? Mine is such that there are only a handful that qualify, all more expensive than the C2S.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,633
    Not only are Porsche not "fussy" like other exotic cars, and usable as everyday cars, but the resale value is not as adversely affected by high miles. Whereas a Ferrari buyer would cringe at a Ferrari with 60,000 miles on it, a used Porsche buyer will still seriously consider a 150K--200K Porsche if it looks good and has service records.
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Greetings:

    Everyone has a different station in life, obviously yours is elevated from mine. My top car is a 2006 C2S. Other cool cars by my definition are a new 2007 Chevy Silverado CrewCab and a 2004 BMW 5 series. " Cool " and "Perfect " are on a sliding scale for everyone. What I enjoy, you may not. Your day at the tract may be my day at the beach , I surf so a good day of slids at the local reef keeps me happy. Keeping my Porsche in perfect condition by my definition fullfills my dream...enjoy life and no worries..I'll never have a Ferrari or a Picaso.. don't want them or a Rolex.. but I am really happy. Don't need the bling, and I didn't buy my Porsche for anyone but me.
    Chromedome
  • woody1173woody1173 Posts: 5
    Hello - I've been following this board for a while (THANKS to everyone for all the helpful posts!) and getting close to pulling the trigger on a 911. I've decided on the C2S Cab. The main options I want are nav, bose, chrono, & heated/pwr seats. Not much else matters. This will be my daily driver, commuting car (except on the worst winter days I'll use the SUV). MSRP/invoice around $101/88k. What would be a good discount, considering the season? Some dealers don't have many or any in stock. I'm thinking maybe $8k?
    My preferred colors are meteor/atlas grey, basalt black or midnight blue. But I also like the Carmona red. What is the general view on resale value for Carmona red?
    For those of you with cabs with black interior: when you leave the top down in the sun, don't the seats get unbearably hot? I don't like the beige interior, but I don't want to have something that is unpleasant to use.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,633
    Leaving the top down with the sun beating on leather is a no-no. :cry:
  • marinedocmarinedoc Posts: 8
    My last two Porsche's were both C4S models. Maybe overkill for routine driving, but I did do several track days with my 2002. As for price, Porsche' does not manufacture as many of these models as they do the C4 and CS, so the dealers are usually a little more reluctant to "deal" on the C4S. Black upholstery will be hot top up or down (one of mine was black exterior and interior) and the current is silver (coupe) with black interior. It is much cooler when left in the sun than the all black.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    If you really want to enjoy YOUR car, don't worry about the resale value and get the color and options you want. If you are going to leave the top down under the sun, it doesn't matter what color your interior is, it's going to burn you. I have a SY C2 Cab with black interior. I always close the top when parked and it doesn't take long for the interior to cool off with AC on and top down.
  • ringleader6ringleader6 Posts: 43
    Carmona red with beige is a nice choice, better than the red with black. About 6-7% is the going discount. If you found a red one, you should make a move, or you may be looking at an 08 with higher prices and less discount. I personally did not think much of the chrono, especially considering the potential use. For some reason nav is not on many of these cars, and terribly expensive to dealer add.
    You are correct, there are not many of these out there, and appears there will be less for the US market.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A few comments:

    On price, I would think the best deal you will get will be on an in-stock 2007. But you may need to take a color combination that isn't your first choice or some additional options you don't want. The closer you get to the release of the 2008's the better your negotiating power should be. I got a 10% discount on my 2005 in September 2005. 7-8% should be achievable now in my area, but pricing seems to vary by geography. On the other hand, if you want to order the car exactly as you want it in your preferred color combo, you will likely get slightly less of a discount but will save on unwanted options. At this point in the model year, if I were to order, I'd probably wait and go with a 2008. The price increase probably won't be that significant, and made up in resale value.

    On options, no disrespect to ringleader, but the $920 sport chrono is well worth it, IMO. The increased throttle and braking response in sport mode is enticing. And, given that you are going for an "S", with PASM standard, it makes for a very sporty combination. The chrono part is a bit of a gimmick, but the sport part isn't, IMO. If I was cutting out an option on your list, it would probably be the Bose. I haven't heard the base system, but the Bose upgrade is not very impressive. And driving around with the top down, I doubt you could tell a huge difference. I have the Nav and it's a pain to use compared to our Acura's, but it still is valuable enough in my travels.

    On the color, I have Seal Grey / Black and have not had a problem with the interior getting too hot. I do leave the top down on occasion, but not at high noon on a sunny day. I think the Carmona Red is a great color for the 911 and think it looks best with a black interior, although that's obviously highly subjective. I'm also a big fan of tomtomtom's Speed Yellow/Black, but the Carmona Red is a bit more conservative, while still being different than the mainstream silver/grey/black.

    Good luck.
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