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Porsche 911

19091939596105

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  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Car & Driver.com - "The most notable mechanical change we expect in the 2009 911 is increased horsepower & torque, thanks to direct injection."

    Wikipedia states, "Gasoline direct injection or GDI is a variant of fuel injection employed in modern two and four stroke petrol engines. The gasoline in highly pressurized, and injected via a common rail fuel line directly into the combustion chamber of each cylinder, as opposed to multi-point fuel injection that happens in the intake tract, or cylinder port. GDI enables stratified charge combustion (ultra lean burn) for improved fuel efficiency and emission levels at low load. The article goes on to say, " The major advantages of a GDI engine are increased fuel efficiency and high power output."
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    One of the reasons we got a porsche 911 coup is that it is a awesome looking car, but yet understated. Don't get me wrong, it certainly makes a statement, but without the flash of a lamborghini,or the noise of a Ferrari. The lines of a porsche are so clean. Why mess it up with gimmicks? Of course, to make money with those high profit options.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Here's the official announcement straight from Porsche and I included a link to a Porche website that you're going to enjoy. It's very interactive and very clear. Check it out!!

    http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911/usa.aspx



    Porsche Releases Information and Photos of New 2009 911 Models
    New Generation 911s Combine Increased Performance with Better Fuel Efficiency


    Atlanta, June 6, 2008 - Porsche today disclosed photos and details for the next generation 911 model series. Four new 911 models go on sale in September in North America – the 911 Carrera Coupe, 911 Carrera Cabriolet, 911 Carrera S Coupe, and 911 Carrera S Cabriolet. All offer a higher level of performance thanks to their all-new flat-six engines displacing 3.6 and 3.8 liters respectively. And for the first time in a Porsche sports car, engines utilize direct fuel injection (DFI) and can be coupled with the new optional 7-speed double-clutch gearbox Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), racing inspired technology and a Porsche first. The result of these new technologies allows Porsche to once again boost performance of the 911, yet improve fuel efficiency by up to 13 percent as measured in the European driving cycle.

    Maximum output of the 911 Carrera with its 3.6-liter engine is up by 20 horsepower to 345. The 911 Carrera S with its 3.8-liter engine is equally impressive, up by 30 horsepower to 385. With this extra power, the Carrera S now offers a top speed of 188 mph.

    The new generation 911 is available for the first time with the new Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), Porsche’s double-clutch gearbox. The seven speed gearbox combines the driving comfort of an automatic transmission with the gearshift capacity of a sequential gearbox used in race cars. Since Porsche’s double-clutch also boasts an automatic gearshift function, it replaces the former Porsche Tiptronic S automatic transmission on both the Carrera and Carrera S. PDK improves acceleration while reducing fuel consumption over the previous generation of Tiptronic S equipped 911s through optimized and adaptive gearshifts.

    Porsche developed this gearshift principle for racing no less than 25 years ago. It features two parallel clutches to eliminate any interruption in power delivery and eliminates even the slightest break between gears. Porsche factory drivers benefiting from this technology were able to accelerate faster than their competitors and keep both hands on the wheel while shifting gears, thus avoiding even the slightest distraction. This pioneering achievement from Porsche’s racing efforts now gives the new 911 Carrera and Carrera S even better performance. The Carrera equipped with PDK covers 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the Carrera S reaches the same speed in 4.3 which is 0.2 seconds faster than with a manual six-speed gearbox. The customer in search of optimum driving dynamics even has the option to combine PDK with Porsche’s optional Sport Chrono Plus including Launch Control. The result is high-speed acceleration free of wheel spin from a standstill and a racing shift pattern to further boost performance. The Carrera equipped with the Sport Chrono Plus accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds while the Carrera S sprints to 60 mph in an outstanding 4.1.

    Exterior enhancements of the new 911 stand out clearly through innovations in design and technology. The refined front bumper has larger air intakes which signal an increase in power and the newly designed dual-arm exterior mirrors give a larger field of vision to the rear of the car. LED daytime driving lights and bi-xenon headlights will be standard on all new models, as well as LED tail and brake lights. This gives the 911 an even more distinctive style and a truly unique look from the front and rear. As a further option, Porsche now also offers Dynamic Cornering Lights on all models. In Porsche fashion, these new refinements do not change the drag coefficient of the 911 as it stays at a remarkable 0.29.

    The latest Porsche Communication Management system, PCM 3.0, which includes a new touchscreen feature, will be standard on all new 911s. Along with this upgraded system, options such as a hard disk drive navigation system, XM radio with XM NavTraffic capability, Bluetooth® connectivity, iPOD® port, USB port, and aux jack will be available.

    2009 911 U.S. pricing starts at $75,600 for the Carrera Coupe, $86,200 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $96,800.

    2009 911 Canadian pricing starts at $95,900 for the Carrera Coupe, $108,900 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $121,800.

    Hope you enjoy. Fantastic changes coming in September.

    -moo
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Spring has finally arrived in New England. I am seeing lots of late model Corvettes, usually in primary colors like red or black, being driven on weekends, sometimes in groups of two or three cars. The guys behind the wheel seem to form an interesting demographic. They are usually between their mid-40's to their mid-60's and look like successful owners of blue collar companies, maybe HVAC contractors or the like. They seem beefy, as though they may have played some high school football before they went into the service and their companions are almost always well turned out blondes.

    All in all they seem to be having a lot more fun than the often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. Wonder why?
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    I bought my 911 with the factory phone module. Not happy living with two numbers, replaced the factory phone module with the Bluetooth. Much better solution not having to do all the call forwarding getting in and out of the car.
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    i am surprised that Porsche is making so many options standard. As witnessed by the overwhelming catalogue of trying to order one of these cars, it is a breath of fresh air when an automaker actually makes a move for the perceived benefit of the customer. Now I recognize that some may not want the adaptive headlights or other systems that are now standard options but up until now Porsche has had a brilliant marketing strategy with essentially having so many different options that they could probably build a several 997s a day for a year and not have one be identical to the other. Some saw it as nickle and diming the customer while others embraced just the notion of individuality and getting a car EXACTLY how they wanted it.

    I see it as a positive move in the customer's best interest but also cutting out about 50 pages of options from the novel entitled "Porsche Options Catalogue". However, I'm sure and know they saved probably 80-90% of their "nickle & diming" to keep their cash flow strong and their customer base happy and evergrowing. Now I just can't wait until they release the specs on the new turbo with this flat 6 instead of the tradition horizontally opposed 6 cylinder. Hmmmm,,,,,, can you imagine a twin turbo'd 8 cylinder lying beneath that tiny engine cover - I guess I can dream but I gladly pay the gas guzzler tax on that one. Maybe then I'll finally give up my tuned 996 turbo........or just add to the collection ;)

    All my best & Keep Safe
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    "...they seem to be having a lot more fun (Corvette owners) than often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. I wonder why?" ...maybe because they're cheap to replace in the event of a crash? Your obsevations are interesting. What do you do for a living?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.

    I respect your personal opinions, but just to give you another perspective:

    Heated seats are worth every penny in my Cab. I won't hesitate to put the top down at anything over 45-50 in the early spring or late fall. But even 60 will feel cold without heated seats.

    Bose is lousy. The base (non-Bose) stereo in my 1995 Nissan Maxima produces far superior sound to my "upgraded" Bose 14 speaker system in the 911. But I bought an in-stock car at a $10k discount, so I ate it.

    Sport exhaust? Wouldn't have bought it, given the choice, but now that I have it, combined with the sport chrono, I'd be hard pressed not to order it. No "official" claims of performance increases, but it sure as hell feels quicker in combination with the sport chrono.

    Sport-Chrono. This is a must have for anybody serious about performance. Forget the chrono part (and you overpaid for a $200 runners watch). The "sport" part, which when activated noticably increases throttle response, brake response and, combined with the sport exhaust, makes the car feel at least a couple tenths quicker. After many test drives of all models, I would consider putting the $900 +/- sport chrono on a base C2 before I would pay $10k more for a C2S without it.

    Rear wiper - Now there's an opportunity to save bucks. It looks ugly and you have to be going pretty damn slow to have water sitting on your rear window. This past weekend, I managed to drive through a brief 10 minute spring rain at 50 mph with my top down and golf clubs across the back seats and I had no more than 5-6 drops of rain in the car, all from the sides, not the top. Maybe on a C4 in the snow belt, but I wouldn't consider one on a C2 coupe that isn't going to see snow.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Buylow, this SMG stuff with paddles in day to day use sures sounds a lot like what they already put on the 44K and up Caynenne for free.

    Sorry to sound like I'm picking on you, but that statement is WAY off, on a couple of counts.

    First, up until now, all Tiptronics were SLUSHBOX torque converter automatics. And, while Porsche's version of that crappy (IMHO) transmission design was better than most, you can't claim that it was anything less than offensive to someone who wants direct control and crisp performance.

    Second, that crappy slushbox isn't "free". Insult was added to injury by having to pay $3k+ more for a slushbox than a 6 speed in a Cayenne. The base V6 model can be ordered with a 6 speed manual and the actual performance is damn near as good as a V8 Cayenne "S" automatic - with better fuel economy as a bonus. The new Cayenne GT-S comes with a 6-speed manual for $3k less than the slushbox version and (again, IMHO) is the Cayenne that most deserves the Porsche crest on the hood. More so than the Turbo.

    Torque converter slushbox automatics ought to be banished from Porsche's line-up completely. And, hopefully, the newest 911 DSG transmissions will cause that to happen over the next few years. Make no mistake, I'm still a strong personal fan of the true 6-speed three pedal manual. And I think this "launch control" gimmickry is catering to the wrong crowd that still thinks stop light drag racing is the bomb. But at least with the latest dual clutch transmissions, they have put the torque converter where it belongs - on the unemployment line.

    P.S. My dealer has taken back on trade a significant number of the 911 Turbo Tiptronics he has sold since it was introduced. Almost all for manual transmisison somethings. His take is that, paddle shifters, launch control and "it's faster" marketing did little to hide that the Tiptronic has more in common with a Buick than a Ferrari F1.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Moo,

    Thank you for the information on the 2009's. The information on the prosche web site was very interesting. Just a couple of questions,

    Porsche talks about the new generation. Does this mean that the 997 is history?

    Are the new transmission and clutch offered as options only (answer may have been on the site, but I missed it)? If so, do you have any idea as to how much?

    Do you see this new trans and clutch ever totally replacing the 6 speed manual, or is it more like replacing the tiptronic?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    You bet. I thought the Porsche website was really awesome. Great introduction on the new features.

    In regards to your questions:

    1. 997 history? Nope, they are referring to this as Generation 2.

    2. PDK is offered as an option. Approximately 50% of the vehicles we have coming in will be with the new dual clutch system. Price? There have been no releases on pricing yet. Speculation? Probably $4k.

    3. PDK replacing manual? Absolutely not. It is replacing the current Tiptronic. You can run it in automatic mode if you would like or use the shifters on the steering wheel.

    It's really an awesome system. I'm excited about that, the dynamic lighting, Direct Fuel Injection and the host of extras with technology. Finally we have bluetooth!

    -moo
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Habitat1, you are absolutely correct. My post about the new SMG paddles being the same as the paddles on my Cayenne was part tongue in cheek and partly a response to the marketing claims. I apologize.

    Regarding stick shift Cayenne's, your comments are, again, correct. However, stick Cayennes have been very hard to find. Dealers tended not to order them. When I bought my Tip Cayenne, the experienced (he was over 40!) sales guy thought that given the Cayenne's weight, a Tip was more desireable. I didn't want to argue, have to special order a stiick shift, and miss out on my Section 179 income tax deduction for buying a "delivery vehcile with 6000 GVW". On my next Cayenne (yep, I''m going to get another one, independent of buying a 997) I will go for the stick. I'll have more fun than a 63 year old guy should have, and buy some emerging market bonds with the 3K I will save.

    Interestingly, on some other European cars ( e.g., SAAB 9-5 and maybe some BMW's) , the default option is an automatic and if you really want to order a stick it is the same price as an auto! Does GM and Mr. Lutz really have to wonder why SAAB no longer has the sparkle and hard core owners it used to have?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks for all your feedback here. I got distracted with my 135i posts, and missed some of your valuable posts... sorry.

    Actually, I am going to consider trading my Carrera S Cab in for an '09 Coupe. It's just an idea at this point, so we'll see.

    The 135i is an amazing car, but I'm already trading the 135i Coupe for a 135i Convertible. That's one reason I might get the '09 Carrera as a Coupe. Not sure yet. Mine has been nearly perfect , although the interior carbon fiber strip at the base of the windshield has warped... the dealer is going to replace it. Minor issue, that's for sure!

    Stay in touch! :)

    TM
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Glad to hear all is well. I know you're going to love the upgrades on the new 911.

    Keep us posted. :D

    -moo
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Posts: 350
    I don't think the 928 was ever really considered a likely 911 replacement. Front engine, 4 seat hatchback GT that was a comfortable highway cruiser but never came close to matching the visceral sports car feel or performance of the 911. Not only did their sales volume drop like a rock at the end of thier life, their resale value did too.

    If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6.

    They underestimated their consumer's preference for the 911, and as a result, the 911 soldiered on (and eventually became water cooled) and the 928 died.

    What probably didn't help the 928, particularly in resale value, is that there were some (cough!) interesting design elements to it - - my understanding is that part of the wiring harness under the dash was semi-visible to the passenger compartment, so in order to avoid making it be a distraction, they chose to make all of these wires be black. Needless to say, trying to trace one black wire out of a forest of black wires makes for a nightmare to track down an electrical gremlin.

    There's been some on-again, off-again efforts to bring back a 928-esque model, the most recent one being the Panamerica 4 door coupe, IIRC.

    -hh
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Posts: 350
    Oh when you say Cayenne I don't think "porsche".

    The good news is that the introduction of the Cayenne is what pretty much prompted the 'rear engine aircooled' contingent to finally accept the 914 as a 'real' Porsche, despite its VW heritage. ;)

    The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection.

    I can vouch for this. Around 1992, I bought a 1985 911 for $19.5K. As per NADA claimed values, its now worth around $18K...its depreciated by a whopping $2K over 15 years.

    A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched.

    Over the past 15 years, I've gone through a couple of sets of tires, repaired & updated the A/C from R-12 to R-134, replaced the sunroof gasket, replaced the 915 transmission synchros (and clutch, while it was open), plus other miscellany...all told, probably still under $10,000 in total maintenance costs. Adding in the above depreciation (but not counting gasoline or insurance), I'm still at less than $1000/year, although there are a couple of asthetic items that I have to decide if to drop the coin to take care of: shrink cracks in the vinyl dashboard ($3K labor), and the leather on the driver's seat is just about at its end of life.

    But then again, what does one really expect for a 23 year old car? Well, just this past weekend, my wife asked if I might want to drive it from NJ to TN next summer. That should give you an idea of how solid its mechanicals are.

    -hh
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,404
    I think your assessment of value is somewhat optimistic given the interior deterioration, since used Porsche values are pegged very rigidly to cosmetics, but your assessment of durability is right on. Naturally one does wonder about all the electronics on the new cars as they age, but even here Porsche technician training, as well as the high level of skill of most independent shops, seems to indicate that these cars won't be sacrificed to incompetence, indifference or scarce parts like other "super" cars that are now ten years old. I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911.

    MODERATOR

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    Hey Huntzinger! I haven't seen you post in a few years! Good to see you're still around.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6.

    The "problem" with the 928, if you want to call it that, was that it was relatively heavy, more luxurious, but not particularly nimble, and really never was perceived as a sports car. It was always a GT car. If it were around today, it might be viewed as competition for the BMW 650i/M6 or even the AM V8, but not the 911 or Ferrari 430.

    According to my dealer, the 928 buyers were more inclined to be higher income versions of 924/944/968 buyers. But not someone who came in looking specifically at the 911 as a "sports car" purchase.
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Posts: 350
    I think your assessment of value is somewhat optimistic given the interior deterioration,...

    I agree, although my more generalized complaint is that IMO, NADA book values seem to always be overly optimistic.

    In general, I figure that it would cost be around $5K to correctly restore the two current cosmetic shortcomings. As I alluded to, the killer on the dash is the huge amount of labor involved, as the dash can only be removed after the windshield has been popped out (hopefully without breaking it).

    In general, the remedial fix used on most cars in this vintage has been to cover it up by throwing on a dashboard rug or skin. The skin is the better solution, but my dash is blue and as of the last time that I checked, only black skins are currently in production. The local independent Porsche shop has the availability of this part on their 'watch list' for me.

    I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911.

    Agreed, and this was my point. Even with my current cosmetic shortcomings, the absolute worst case is to claim that its worth literally zero, which works out for me to an average rate of depreciation of $100/month over my ownership timeline.

    -hh
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