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What Wagon Would You Like To See Offered?

KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
As we've seen in the industry, wagons are making a comeback in the marketplace. Whether it's because of fuel prices, maneuverability, or people just need a little more room than a regular trunk provides, the automakers have made an effort to meet the demands and desires of the buying public.

Just not completely.

In this discussion, you can become a product planner. Tell us which wagon is not available and should be. Foreign or domestic, large/medium/small, gasoline/diesel/hybrid - think about the list of cars out there that don't have a wagon version, and give a compelling reason to build it.

Here are the rules:
- if you are suggesting a new wagon, you must tell us why you will buy it if it's offered
- if you disagree with a suggesytion, debate the car, not the person who suggested it.

Be imaginative - here we go!

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
Tagged:
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Comments

  • roc312roc312 Posts: 4
    This would seem a fairly inexpensive effort for Subaru, in that the sedan and wagon platforms are the same, and the sedan already exists. I suspect there would be strong demand for such a car, since there is nothing like it available at this time. The sedan has competition.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,444
    We need a larger family station wagon available. The Taurus wagon is the right size, unfortunately the sedan version of the Taurus does not match Accord or Camry, so the wagon is not much to speak about either.

    If Honda or Toyota offered a Camry or Accord wagon they would have something with the room of most SUV's and the economy and handling of a car.

    Passat and Mazda 6 come close, but they are smaller and less efficient than the Camry and Accord. Reliability could also be an issue with the Passat.

    To really put icing on the cake offer the new 2.2 liter diesel engine available in Europe with the Accord wagon. 50 mpg with room for 5 people and their luggage in a reliable, nice riding, nice handling, relatively inexpensive package - what a refreshing change that would be.

    Will never happen though because it will take away too many sales from much more profitable SUV's.
  • I agree - why can't they bring the Accord wagon back.

    they already have it in Japan (for 2 years now).
  • WWK = Wagon (for those) Without Kids. (But don't forget that the grandkids may need a ride!)

    I've owned four (real) full-sized wagons over a 45-year period. Three Dodges and the 1989 Chevy Caprice (155,000 mi) I have now. All were driven well over 100K mi with extensive major repairs; yet, all were VERY economical over their full lives.

    Plus, I have driven an '98 Merc Sable wagon owned by a friend for the past four years --also an economical, reliable wagon.

    Here's what I need:

    Size: Bigger than Taurus/Sable and Dodge Magnum. Length at least 84" in cargo space with front seats all the way back -- that's 7.5" more than Taurus.
    Width: min 42" at narrowest part (fits golf bag with long handled clubs and max driver head.)
    Height: 24" tailgate opening to 18" either side of center -- Magnum fails big time here.

    Engine choices: include a reasonably powered V-6 and a V-8, coupled with a 4 or 5 spd trans w OD. Dodge's 3.5L appears about right. No problem with Ford's Duratech V-6 either. This bigger car might need a small V-8 of about 4.5L.

    Driver seat/legroom: People have been steadily getting taller, but cars don't accommodate us tall 'ums as well as they used to. Taurus not good in this dept; Magnum is the standard. Test: driver 6'-2" with 35" inseam has to be able to move from accelerator to brake instantly w/o knee touching steering wheel. Magnum's tilt / telescoping wheel is really helpful here. Adjustable peds may help also; except that I SUSPECT all the adjustment is towards the driver (as referenced against the height of a non-adjust ped).

    Cargo area: should be designed to carry cargo. If there is a 3rd seat, make it optional. Floor should be completely rigid and flat (Caprice is the standard) and sides made of indestructible plastic. Carpeting's major characteristic should be "anti-wear".

    Roof rack: offer one. Include easily adjustable cross rails and make rack so that accessory cross rails fit (for bikes, cargo carriers, etc). Put strong ribs in the roof and trim them with strong, well fastened, stainless runners. (Honda Odyssey is notably missing these features).

    Drivability: Cradle the front passengers in firm bucket seats with (relatively) high side support and adjustable lumbar support. Provide height adjustment. Create a firm ride and firm steering so that you feel comfortable in tight turns at moderately high speeds. But be comfortable over rough terrain.

    Cruise control: Put controls on steering wheel (like Sable Wagon).

    Stereo: Base model should have dynamite sound (as measured against OEM -- not custom -- offerings). Reference should be '98 Sable system, where front speakers are at chest level. Controls should include a rotary tuning knob and easily accessable balance/fade controls.

    Upholstery: offer a durable cloth trimmed with vinyl or leather. Should be easily cleaned.

    Safety: Insure all seats have headrests; if necessary, make them removeable to allow seats to stow FLAT. Fit the best, strongest child seat rearward facing in the 2nd seat and dimension car so that front seat can be positioned all the way back (my son's huge Buick Roadmaster wagon can't fit these seats in without moving the front seat WAY forward!).

    Remember: Build It and They Will Come
  • My ideal wagon:
    Start with a Scion xB.
    Stretch by 3 feet.
    Add 3rd set of doors and duplicate the rear seats.
    Add the Toyota hybrid system to the engine the car comes with.

    It would be 8" shorter than a Sable Wagon, but with a much longer wheelbase - the engineers would need to make sure it could turn very sharply. The passenger room would be ummatched. If you had a lot of bags, fold the 3rd row down. Make sure the load capacity is at least 1500#.
  • I agree more midsized wagons are needed; Accord and Camry of course and maybe a Ford Fusion Wagon when it comes out. Also I would like to see some wagon varient on some more compacts; a civic and cobalt wagon for example. I like the Mazda6 but wish they would offer the wagon with the 4 cyl for those of us who hope to get decent gas mileage out of cars.

     

    --

    Bill
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,444
    Finally somebody else who wants to see a 4-cyl Mazda 6 wagon. I have been mentioning it on the Mazda 6 board, but everybody thinks it will be underpowered - I say no less than the sedan. 160 hp is plenty in a car of that size.

     

    Stretched Xb sure would have a lot of room.
  • nitromaxnitromax Posts: 641
    - the engineers would need to make sure it could turn very sharply.

     

    yeah, there ya go!

    A full size wagon with "quadra steer" !!

     

    Now we're talkin'

    :-)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,691
    all the Accord wagons they used to sell were 4-cyl - they never sold the 6-cyl in anything other than a sedan! And those wagons were darn popular. The 2.3 in the Mazda6 would be enough to pull a wagon around. The wagon is not that much bigger than the Mazda3s hatch, after all. And that same 2.3 is going to be hauling around the Mazda5 this time next year.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • The other thing to remember is that anyone who is looking to buy a wagon is probably placing their highest priority on utility, not performance. Yes it is cool to have a V6 wagon that can move but having the V6 available is enough to create the image.

     

    --

    Bill
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,444
    I agree - the strange thing is it does not cost anything to certify the wagon if the sedan is offered with the same powertrain combination. Any two vehicles (from the same manufacturer) with the same engine and transmission and within 500 lbs of each other can share EPA testing results. GM even shares accross divisions. So there is really no downside to offering a 4-cyl.

     

    People seemed to take it personally on the Mazda6 wagon board though, and did not even want a 4-cylinder available even if they could keep their v-6's. Go figure.
  • I agree, I would like to see Camry and Accord wagon as well.
  • smpoolsmpool Posts: 33
    I'd buy the Euro Accord wagon with the 2.2liter diesel in a heartbeat. But alas, like you say we'll never see it in the States. It would take too many sales away from Honda new direction into light trucks.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,444
    Here is an interesting one. I just happened to see the new Avalon the other day. While I would much prefer an MT Accord diesel wagon, I could not help but think what kind of wagon the Avalon would make.

     

    It would have more room than most SUV's along with an incredible ride and the handling of a car. It gets 22/31 EPA mpg (better than some 4-cylinder cars) with a 280 hp V-6. It would suit the needs of the "active lifestyle" "near luxury" types 99.99% of the time.

     

    Unfortunately people don't buy what they need, and manufacturers don't build what people need.

     

    Image is everything.
  • I really like my Passat wagon because it has lots of room, more than many SUVs. But because of reliabilty and repair cost issues I definitely would like to see a Camry/Accord/Altima/Sonata/Impala/LeSabre midsize with room for 5, lots of cargo room and possible AWD option, V6/diesel
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    It would be nice to be able to buy a bona fide mid to large wagon (NOT 'crossover' or SUV) with a smaller engine (4 or V6) that costs less than $25k; I don't think any exist at this point. Maybe an Accord LX or Impala wagon?
  • How about a Pontiac wagon based on the G6?
    Of course it would be called "Safari"

    I would have loved the Magnum if it had more normal window openings, a windshield header that didn't start so far forward (can't see stoplights), a flat folding front passenger seat and a turbo diesel for 40 mpg.

    Am I expecting too much from the American auto industry?
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Well, you will at least get the folding passenger seat for the 06 Magnum...

    kcram
    Host - Wagons
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    I would really love to see an Accord Wagon. If it came in the EX with leather trim with the 4 cylinder engine with the hybrid drivetrain and the Navigation system, I could be persuaded to purchase it.
  • sportymonksportymonk Posts: 258
    (Wow, original message wasn't here when I looked back.)

    I would buy the Accord Wagon in a heartbeat and told the salesperson so. Have looked at a Pilot and Ody and Mazda6 Wagon (great styling but too small)

    Would like to see
    (a) a Pilot with FWD and no AWD, better mileage and more room in back. If that sounds like an Ody, the new Ody has too many teething problems. Also the seating position was not comfortable for me. Wife didn't like the armrest.

    (b) A Ford Freestyle built by honda or Toyota for quality. And add a 350 Hp engine and a regular transmission.

    (c) A toyota Highlander made bigger.

    In other words I love the Japanese cars but they need to be bigger.
  • klh3klh3 Posts: 18
    I would like to see a Porche 911 based wagon :)
  • dmcmahondmcmahon Posts: 26
    I'd like to see Lexus make a wagon version of the ES, or if you want to look at it another way, a Lexus version of the Camry wagon others are wishing for. Give it a hybrid version of the 3.5L V6, and maybe some handling borrowed from the GS. FWD preserves your cargo capacity, while the wagon back-end and battery pack even out the weight distribution in back. Car like ride and handling, hybrid performance and fuel economy, cargo capacity to rival many SUVs, and all with Lexus luxury and quality.
  • 96corolla96corolla Posts: 94
    How 'bout a wagon/hatch version of the Civic or Corolla. I know the matrix is supposed to be Toyota's compact wagon, but it just doesn't cut it for me. Too high and stylistically boring. These guys are definately missing the boat. The mazda 3 hatch is awesome, as is the 6. Problem is Mazda doesn't have the reliability records of Toyota and Honda. The luxury guys are ahead of the curve on this one because they have recognized this trend....which BTW I called and actually wrote Mazda about ~ 3 years ago. No claiming to be responsible for anything...that is certainly not the case...I just saw the resurgance of wagons coming. The luxury guys have the volvo s50, small beemer hatch/wagon and the new a3 is SWEEEETT!!!

    I'd guy the Toyota or Honda comparable in style to the 3 because the vehicle would be economical from an overall price and gas usage standpoint. It would be more usesful then a sedan and I'd have more confidence in reliability from these two makers. If they made one, they'd fly off the lots.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 971
    Yes, bring back Toyota and Honda wagons but not the compacts. There are lots of small wagons out there now. I'd love to see a hybrid wagon that got great gas mileage.
  • deronderon Posts: 3
    I would like to see a Honda Accord Wagon, Honda Civic Wagon, Toyota Camery Wagon, Toyota Corolla Wagon, Nissan Sentra Wagons, Mitsubishi Galant Wagon, Mazda Protege Wagon.

    I am currently looking around for a good 1.5 liter 4 cyl wagon to replace my highly reliable 15 year old 1990 Plymouth Colt SW (Mitsubishi import). The car was three years old when I purchased it. In 15 years it broke down only once - right outside my house - the engine control module ECM went bad. I diagnosed and fixed myself. It was easy to verify the problem without having to purchase a OBDII code reading scanning tool. It cost me only $175 to have the ECM repaired including a 2 year warranty. The car runs good but it is starting to leak Antifreeze and Oil. 1990 was the good old days.

    Looked around at the Subaru Legacy/Outback wagons but I really don't need 4WD and they are way too expensive for what you get.
    Ford Focus Wagon is turning into a piece of junk just like the Ford Escort Wagons.
    The Ford freestyle looks almost like my Plymouth Colt but I know Ford will not reproduce the quality and reliability.

    Scion XB - a little too boxy and hard to read center mtd instrument cluster. I love all the air bags, ABS and stability control it offered.

    I hate the skirting around the Matrix and Vibe. Not to mention that the gearshift interferes with reaching the climate controls. Whats up with that big gap beween the gearshift and the armreasts? Lacks sportyness and road feel.

    Mazda 6 - why not a 4 cyl offered? I would buy one today if it did.
    Mazda 3 - Who was on drugs when they designed the center console radio?

    European Cars - SAAB, Volvo, Volkswagon, Mercedes, BMW. Too expensive to purchase and operate. My feeling is parts and servicing will always be at a premium.

    Others I have considered:

    Saturn Wagon - looked promising when first produced but whet downhill ever since.
    Mazda 5 - Not bad but, dealers have been selling at premium pricing as there is not many competing models.
    Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback - very rare find.
    Hyundai Elantra Wagon - rare find.

    Kia Rio Cinco - only $12-$13k new. 10year/100k powertrain warranty. Maybe.... (unfortunately it is based on the junk Ford Aspire)

    Suzuki Forenza LX only $15-$16k new.

    :confuse: Anybody else have any ideas?

    Deron Benedict
    Columbia PA
  • deronderon Posts: 3
    I would like to see a Honda Accord Wagon, Honda Civic Wagon, Toyota Camery Wagon, Toyota Corolla Wagon, Nissan Sentra Wagons, Mitsubishi Galant Wagon, Mazda Protege Wagon.

    I am currently looking around for a good 1.5 liter 4 cyl wagon to replace my highly reliable 15 year old 1990 Plymouth Colt SW (Mitsubishi import). The car was three years old when I purchased it. In 15 years it broke down only once - right outside my house - the engine control module ECM went bad. I diagnosed and fixed myself. It was easy to verify the problem without having to purchase a OBDII code reading scanning tool. It cost me only $175 to have the ECM repaired including a 2 year warranty. The car runs good but it is starting to leak Antifreeze and Oil. 1990 was the good old days.

    Looked around at the Subaru Legacy/Outback wagons but I really don't need 4WD and they are way too expensive for what you get.
    Ford Focus Wagon is turning into a piece of junk just like the Ford Escort Wagons.
    The Ford freestyle looks almost like my Plymouth Colt but I know Ford will not reproduce the quality and reliability.

    Scion XB - a little too boxy and hard to read center mtd instrument cluster. I love all the air bags, ABS and stability control it offered.

    I hate the skirting around the Matrix and Vibe. Not to mention that the gearshift interferes with reaching the climate controls. Whats up with that big gap beween the gearshift and the armreasts? Lacks sportyness and road feel.

    Mazda 6 - why not a 4 cyl offered? I would buy one today if it did.
    Mazda 3 - Who was on drugs when they designed the center console radio?

    European Cars - SAAB, Volvo, Volkswagon, Mercedes, BMW. Too expensive to purchase and operate. My feeling is parts and servicing will always be at a premium.

    Others I have considered:

    Saturn Wagon - looked promising when first produced but whet downhill ever since.
    Mazda 5 - Not bad but, dealers have been selling at premium pricing as there is not many competing models.
    Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback - very rare find.
    Hyundai Elantra Wagon - rare find.

    Kia Rio Cinco - only $12-$13k new. 10year/100k powertrain warranty. Maybe.... (unfortunately it is based on the junk Ford Aspire)

    Suzuki Forenza LX only $15-$16k new.

    :confuse: Anybody else have any ideas?

    Deron Benedict
    Columbia PA
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,444
    I agree about the lack of the 4-cyl Mazda 6 wagon. You should post on the M6 wagon board about your preference.
  • Hi guys,

    not quite sure if this was posted here before. My impression of a Acura RL wagon:

    http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/acurarl.html

    Greetings
    André
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    :surprise: I am just amazed at the number of people who say that they want an Accord or Camry wagon, while we have some nice wagon options out there currently. As nice as Accord and Camrys are, they are just souless. The Mazda 3 or Mazda 6 wagons are great FWD wagons for those who don't want AWD :confuse: and you can get them for a nice price. The Mazda wagons are great and fun driving cars. The 4 cyl non-turbo Subaru Legacy/Outback are both as reliable, and a bit safer than a similar Accord or Camry. The turbo versons are in another league, like the WRX wagon is in anoher league compared to a civic or corolla. Yes they might be a bit more expensive, but drive a new generation Subaru and you will see the value. There are some good prices for the 4 cyl non-turbo models. There is just no comparison in the driving dynamics factor between a Legacy/Outback, a Camry or an Accord, the Subaru wins flat out. I also like the looks of the Saturn and the Suzuki. But admitidely I am a Mazda and Subaru fan.
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