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All Things Porsche

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    image

     

    Shifty, paint your 928 like this if you really want that P-51 feeling.

    Maybe throw on the shark's teeth and invasion stripes?

     

    Hey JW, howdy partner!

     

    Speeds2much, it's been a while. Has your P ship come in? Gettin' close?

    Hope all's well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,990
    Actually that's what owners call the 928---"the shark", because the last models they made can eat a lot of expensive cars for breakfast. Mine isn't that fast, it's only a 4.5 liter sohc V8, but since the catalytic fell off accidentally and we re-worked it a bit, it's good enough for most street work.

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  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    I take it that this is what you've done to the Boxster!

     

    How does Mrs. Designman like it?

     

    Good to see you again. JW
  • balapbalap Posts: 12
    Hi,

    I am taking the last few careful steps before I own a Porsche. I am debating between a 2005 Boxster Conv and 2003 911(996) Carrera cab(RWD). My heart is for the latter (cant afford a new 911 though). Pardon my long post !

    I wanted feedback and guidance on 3 key things :

     

    1. Any known issues or things to watch out from a day to day or maintainence issues POV on either the 2005 Boxster or 2003 911 ?

     

    2. Advise on pricing and deal.

    The Boxster is a 2005 and currently with its options incl 18" Boxster S wheels, climate control, heated seats, sound package plus & windstop (deflector) is at MSRP $48,775. What is the realistic deal I can expect in terms of discount or any suggestion on what I can ask for. This car is at the dealers for ready delivery.

    On the 2003 911, it is a certified one. Hence the warranty should run at least till 2007/48k or 2009/100k.It is with Tiptronic, 16k miles on it and has full leather, rear spoiler, bose sound package etc. The KBB value is $74,160. The dealer is quoting $72,995. According to the inspection report the car is in great shape except one curbed wheel. The tires are very fresh Frt6/32 and Rr8/32 (new 10/32). Again what is the realistic deal I can push for here.

     

    3. This is more a financial solution question. With the boxster I could potentially buy it through a car loan, and with the 911 I would like to stick to a lease. But given that if I buy the boxster I would like to get a 911 in say 3yrs time, I am keen to lease that too. Any dos and donts on lease vs buy on either the 2005 boxster or more importantly on the 2003 911 ? Am i going to pay way too much into the equity and walk away on the 2003 911, if i decide to switch to a 911 S or 911 AWD later.

     

    since I am a less experienced on the porsche side any other feedback or inputs would be great too.

    Thanks
  • balap - One known issue for most/all Porsches is a tendency to leak oil. The 996 owners sometimes gripe about an RMS (rear main seal) problem, which POTENTIALLY could lead to an engine failure if not addressed. If cost is an issue, naturally you're better off with a Boxster.

     

    designman - Whoa, where'd you find that tank!? lol Does it have twin machine gun mounts on the hood? I think the owner should rent out the car to Hollywood. As for your question, yes, I'm getting close. :o)) It would be a 2006 997 oooor the mysterious upcoming Boxster coupe, which I have to consider, first of all for the substantial cost savings, but also because I might actually like it more on a ride/balance basis. I could also order special paint and leather and still come out way ahead. The main selling points for the 997, for me anyway, are that it has more power, more room, has a cleaner design and those back seats for the emergency take-a-friend or niece situation. I'm 6'1" and am tired of my sardine can cramped Jag. But we'll see....I can lease the car through my business, so 75% is a write-off, anyway.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    1) Tiptronic really kills the value of a Porsche... It might not be showing up in the value of that '03, but it will surely show up when you get ready to sell it.. Should probably be a $3K-$4K deduction..

     

    2) Used car leases are rarely good deals... If the only way to afford the 911 is a lease, then pass on it..

     

    3) A lease is a good idea for the Boxster.. If at the end of the lease, you like it, you could always purchase it for the residual value.. If not, you'll be ready to buy that 911...

     

    Not an expert... just my $0.02..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • lopezlopez Posts: 2
    Yes, but is not leaking yet. Thanks a lot
  • balapbalap Posts: 12
    Thanks for the tips and advise so far,appreciate it. Given that now I am swinging more in favour of the Boxster 2005 manual, any guidance on what kind of discount or reduction I should expect on the MSRP ?

    Thanks

    Bala
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    JW… I think the GT3 above is a scream but going camouflage takes some brass aye? Maybe next year ;-) I’m working on Photoshopping a purple Boxster with flames. To this day I still haven’t seen a flame job that I totally care for but I love the motif regardless, you know, the full-throttle circus look. Flame jobs are like bouquets—they’re all different. Will post it if I find the time and ambition to finish. May even use it as my avatar on rennlist.

     

    Speeds2much… Curious how you call your Jag a sardine can. The 911 ain’t exactly a king size bed. I’ve often pondered how small they really are. But the ride is so “large” that everything else tends becomes insignificant. I remember you once saying that the drop-top quickly got old for you. I hope the cockpit size of the 911 doesn’t do this to you because if you need your space it could indeed wear you out as a daily driver.

     

    Balap… the 986 and 996 Porsches—the previous generation Boxster and 911—are taking a hit with resale, especially the Boxster, so be careful what you buy. I’m not saying don’t buy them, but do your research because you can easily overpay. Take advantage of the depreciation on the purchase. From what I understand there are still 04 leftovers going at hefty discounts while the discounts on the new models are not so good. So, as “first model year” equates to excitement, it also means “kiss money goodbye.” I think you can do better on that 03 911. As far as the Boxster, it’s too early to get a beat on prices as the early must-have buyers keep the prices up near retail—not what yours truly is willing to pay in light of Porsche pricing in recent years.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    designman brings up a good point.. I see a lot of low mileage Boxsters (under 15K miles), that you can buy for around $30K-$35K... I'd rather shoot for an '03 around that price, or maybe a leftover '04 for around $40K-$45K...

     

    And remember... Expensive Porsche options bring only about 10%-20% of their value on resale... and a Tiptronic will actually lose you money over and above the option cost.. If buying new, get the cheapest one you can find..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • 997 is a comfortable car to sit in. I haven't driven one yet. It has good visibility all-around and the ergonomics are excellent. The steering wheel, etc. fall right to hand. The seats are great.

     

    designman - My Jag feels cramped even versus the 997. I think it starts with the seats. I'm about 6'1" tall, 175 pounds, and the driver's seat is too short and narrow, with inadequate back support. I recently rented a Chevy Malibu and was far more comfortable and liked the view out the front windshield. lol

     

    The front windshield is narrow...so is the rear window. My knees hit the dashboard when I pull the seat close enough for my arms. I can never seem to get into a comfortable driving position.....It's the Jag philosophy that goes back decades, I think. Sit low with a long hood in front of you, enclosed. I don't mean to simply gripe....the engine sounds great and the 5-speed is sharp...but if the car hadn't been literally handed to me, I wouldn't be driving it.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    balap -- if you're shopping new cars, have you checked the TMV values here on Edmund's? Best resource on the web, imo.

     

    speeds2much -- exactly my reaction to an S-type I had for a short while! I'm eager to hear what you end up with for your purchase -- the new Boxster does sound very interesting, but I don't think I'll be doing anything until they do something about the engine. (I'm just an old curmudgeon I guess!)

     

    designman -- what a great idea! Purple with flames -- I've toyed with adding neons to the bottom of my RSA, and maybe getting one of those suspension kits that make it bounce off the ground while it goes along. Have you prices some 22's with spinners? If we can make this catch on, mabe we can establish the THPBCA (Town Hall Porsche Bltitz Club of America), have a parade with Mr. Shiftright as our grand marshal. I can guarantee a veerrrry small membership!

     

    JW
  • jwilson1 - That's interesting! You'd think that trading up to an S-Type would eliminate the problem of a cramped interior.

     

    I'm also curious what you don't like about the Boxster engine. Is it the constant chug-chug noise? I've thought about possible NVH issues for the Boxster coupe and that would definately sway me toward the 997. I'm not dissing the Boxster, either, because noise is not such an issue for a ragtop...especially when not a year-round, daily driver. I drove a Boxster for three days and never noticed because the top was always down, anyway. :o))
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,990
    Did you all see the March '05 Road & Track--the article to find the "Best Overall Sports Car". They tested everything we'd consider a sports car, from the Viper to Corvette to S2000 to Elise to you-name-it, under various condition, and asked the cars to display a variety of talents for this "overall-ness", and the Boxster S was the clear winner....except when they factored in the price, then they gave #1 spot to the Corvette--a $10K price advantage.

     

    I will of course tape over my mouth regarding whether the $10K is worth it or not.

     

    The Honda S2000 did a lot better than anyone expected, mostly I think because the new ones are much improved from the jittery cars of the first year.

     

    The Viper was, of course, the animal of the group, but it did excel where it was built to excel. They called it the "white knuckle car" of the group, which is quite correct IMO.

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  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Not to go too OT, speeds2much, but I was relating to your "sense" of space rather than the quantity of it -- the low seating, a feeling of being "crowded" in the driver's seat ... though I did have plenty of headroom. Interesting: I just assumed you were talking about the "S" -- but it is a design issue, as you said ... a friend of mine (only an inch taller) complains about the same thing in his 02 XJ.

     

    Back on topic: I think I've bored people enough with my rants on how Porsche has "watered down" the design of its sports cars over the past 8-9 years, but my biggest gripe is with the engine. (Certainly, as everyone who can read or see the cars go by knows, the Boxster is a wonderful drive, etc., etc., and worthy of all of its awards, even so.) Everyone hears about the complaints about the RMS leaks which both cause and are symptomatic of other engine problems. The RMS design was instituted to save money. Another issue is the abandonment of the dry sump oil system which they used with great success until 1998. Moving to a wet sump was a way of saving money. (THey are, however, apparently a little embarrassed about this, and so they call the system, with its buried pump, an "integrated dry sump" thereby answering the marketing question ... when does 'dry' actually mean 'wet'?)

     

    These are two examples of the cost-cutting that went into the design of the Boxster (in an attempt to lower the entry point for Porsche ownership -- an excellent article on this in the "InLine" publication at the opening of Edmund's right now: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=104494?tid- =edmunds.h..insideline.promo.3.*

     

    To those who are really interested in the innards of the car, probably this all seems pretty uninteresting and picky ... until you start having RMS problems and have to replace the engine, then realize you may have to replace the engine again because there's no cure for the problem since it's a design issue, and the next time the car will be out of warranty! And for those who want to compete .... which is why Porsche's once were made: race cars which could be driven on the street .... there are heat problems which will diminish the longterm durability of the car. Durability was Porsche's stock in trade, winning the London-Dakar rally in 1989 to prove the point.

     

    Porsche knows all of this: their track-ready cars, the GT-3, the GT-2, even the Turbo, have another, entirely different, engine. Porsche always had only one engine. Many were waiting to see if Porsche would fix the errors they built into the 986/996. But the New engines for the 987/997 are the same story.

     

    Sorry to sound like a curmudgeon, as I said, but as much as I like the Boxster and the 996/997, I'm going to avoid any that aren't under warranty and will sell them before the warranty closes. My current Porsche is 12 years old and shows every sign of being ready for track and street for another 12 or more years.

     

    Hope I wasn't too boring this time!

    JW
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,364
    all is well with the 928...shifty

     

    I love the 928...lots of room and runs forever ( well, mine did)

     

    had a boxster S...and it was great also...but not enough room for a family.

     

    I am checking out with Devek to see if any 928s are coming up for sale...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,990
    You can cram an enormous amount of stuff into a 928. That's a big hatch. Devek makes a supercharger for it, too, a mere $6,000.

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  • Yes, I read the article in detail, but wasn't clear which car really won. They said the 997S was the best sports car under $100k, but gushed praise all over the Boxster S (better interior than the Carerra because it had some kind of special leather?), but gave the #1 spot to the Corvette. A few writers ranked the 997S #1, another chose the Viper. They all seemed to agree that the Viper was the most visceral, most like a true race car.

     

    I suppose when you unleash some true enthusiasts on a bunch of sports cars, it's like unleashing a bunch of guys on the Swedish swimsuit team...they love them all. ;o)
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    I was so sad to pull my R&T out of the mailbox yesterday already knowing how the comparison turned out. Can you give us a couple of days next time?

     

    I kind of wonder how the RX-8 would have done given that many articles say it is more satsifying than a 350Z (which did horribly). I think it might have put up a good fight with the S2000.

     

    As for the money factor. I think resale alone would justify spending an extra $10K on the Porsche.

     

    I also wondered how good of a sports car a Viper can be if a professional can't correct it when it gets out of line. What good is it if you can't drive it on the edge?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,990
    sorry lemmer. I thought somehow that the newsstand copies got into most people's hands before the mailed ones.

     

    I will dutifully try to inject more suspense into my next referral from magazines!

     

    shifty the host

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  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,364
    I suppose when you unleash some true enthusiasts on a bunch of sports cars, it's like unleashing a bunch of guys on the Swedish swimsuit team...they love them all. ;o)

     

    LOL....
  • balapbalap Posts: 12
    After some great tips and advice on this forum, have decided to take a plunge with a 2003 Boxster S (instead of the 03 Carrera or 05 Boxster). This one has 6k miles on it and is certified pre-owned, so comes with warranty till 2009/100k. The car is with foll options :Bose Sound System,Black Floor mats,Heated Seats,BiXenon Headlights,18" Carrera Wheels,CD Shelf,Colored Porsche Crest,Cruise Control,Porsche Stability Management,On Board Computer. The list price was 48k looks like I can get it to 45k pre sales tax.

    Request 2 things :

    1. Any insights on if the price is ballpark right or listed at the right price. Edmunds TMV ranges from 42k - 47k (without CPO). Good deal or not ?

    2.Also any insights on things i need to watch out for the Boxster S specifically the 03 model.

    Appreciate your inputs, thanks in advance.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    I really have no opinion on the price as I don't follow them that closely, but I think that car is a much better choice than the 911... I like the CPO also... a warranty is never a bad thing... PSM is a desirable option..

     

    What color combo is it?

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Sounds like a real nice car -- you should truly like it.

     

    Price: if they['re asking 48k, you should be able to get 45k, I'd think, without blinking. The big factor is the arrival of the new Boxster which makes this one not only 3 model years old but, more importantly, perceived as "the old" model. Have you thought of offering 40k? I'd try to get it between 40-42, especially (depending on where you live) you're a good month ahead of the spring-roadster-buying sales traffic.

     

    Once the new car hits the floors in another month or two, values on the 03 will drop like a rock, remember .... no reason you can't wait if you need to, is there?

     

    JW
  • balapbalap Posts: 12
    kyfdx, it is black and black seats.

    JW, I am in Seattle,WA. You bring up a good point, i had thought that the 03 and 04 boxsters were the same and the 05 was upgraded - is that correct ? And when you are saying 03 is 3 model years old notionally are you refering to the just calendar year and not so much the model itself ? Good perspective,you have made me think on the pricing very differently now.

    Thanks
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Just to be clear, balap ... the 05 (which should be seeing its first deliveries any time now!) isn't really an "upgrade" but a brand new model (thus the new numbering for the chassis, 987 replacing 986). There was, indeed, an upgrade of the 986 a couple of years ago -- if designman or speeds2much or one of the other Boxster owners are around they should be able to say which year for sure ... was it 03?

     

    Good luck. JW
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    I think the body upgrade came in '03..

     

    The engine and options have been upgraded a few times since the '97 model year.. I think the engine at least twice, if not three times.. and then glass rear window in '01.. and a bunch of other little things...

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  • That's right, the major facelift came in '03, and the 987 introduced this year is almost completely new.

     

    jwilson1 - 997 vs. 987 is an interesting question, alright, with the coming coupe. I'm not sure when the coupe will be introduced...some sources say Fall '05 and others say Spring '06. I don't think I can wait until next Spring unless I buy a beater to get me through winter. Not such a bad idea, maybe, but then I have to insure it, too. I think Porsche is going to price the coupe higher than the convertible, so the spread between an S Coupe and a base 997 will be about $10k. So someone who really wants the 997 will step up a notch, so to speak. Would the S Coupe be a better drive, though? More balanced, smoother to drive? Tighter dimensions? That could be the case....I'm looking forward to reading the inevitable comparisons in Car magazine. Also will judge for myself. :o))
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,364
    HI....I am getting the bug again....and am starting to look at 928s

     

    there is one posted at Devek that has 101,000 miles, but the AC compressor needs to be replaced....any idea how much one will cost ? it is a 1993 model...5 speed. also, he says the airbag lights and some miscellaneous lights sometimes comes on...seems to be like a usual thing for 928s.....I read on one site that it may be the connections...which tend to work loose and warning lights come and go due to this bad connection....any thoughts on this ? He is asking low $20,000...but I don't want to get caught with a lot of repairs....

     

    otherwise OK car...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,990
    Are you sure 1993? Is it a GTS? Kinda doubt it at that price, so must be a 928S-4. I thought they stopped making those in 1992. Oh well.

     

    Hmmm...if the car is really nice (#2 condition) his price is okay if we presume the AC and airbag light would cost $2,000 to repair both those items.

     

    So you'd be in $22K, which is about low book retail for a #2 car. If there is body damage or bad upholstery, etc. you can start deducting further.

     

    Personally I don't think you should buy it until the electrical glitches are worked out.

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