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All Things Porsche

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  • Something else I'll throw into this discussion. Reuters reported that the Cayman will be 3x as profitable as the Boxster. I wonder how profit per car will compare to that of the 997.
  • visorvisor Posts: 8
    This is my first experience with buying a porsche. I have got 3 options below from a WA dealer. Since the prices are in the same range, I am leaning towards the boxster S.
    1) Appreciate if someone could help me with which is the best of the 3 options?
    2) Is there anything specific I need to check?
    3) And how much can I negotiate down from the quoted price?

    2004 Brand new Seal Grey Boxster
    Black Top
    Graphite Grey Standard Leather
    Bose (Digital) with Wind stop
    Xenon Headlights
    18" Lt Alloy Carrerra Wheels
    CD Shelf Center Console
    Wheel Caps with Colored Crests
    Cruise Control
    Remote Control Alarm System
    Graphite Grey Floor Mats
    MSRP of $51805
    Sale Price of $45177

    2004 Atlas grey boxster
    Certified Preowned
    17-inch Boxster S II wheel
    Automatic air conditioning
    BOSE® (Digital) with Windstop
    CD Shelf Center Console
    Cruise Control
    Heated Seats
    Litronic Headlights with Washer
    Remote Control Alarm
    Wheel Caps with Color Crest
    Sale Price of $44995
    Negoed down to 42995

    2003 Black Boxster S
    Certified Preowned
    18" Carrera Wheel
    Cruise Control
    Heated Seats
    Hi-Fi Sound Package (Digital)
    Litronic Headlights with Washer
    On Board Computer
    Porsche Stability Management (PSM)
    Remote Control Alarm
    Wheel Caps with Color Crest
    Wind Deflector
    Sale Price of $44995
    May come down to 42995

    Hope this is the right forum for this query. Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    I thought the best of the three was actually a combination of them :)

    I like the idea of a new car but I also prefer 17" wheels.

    I'm no help am I?

    MODERATOR

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,056
    #1 would probably be the best buy.. Something tells me you could get $8K off MSRP on a leftover '04...

    I agree with shifty.. 17" wheels are a lot less hassle and the tires are 2/3 the price of the 18". But, the price on #2 might be the worst deal of the three.

    Only buy the Boxster S, if you absolutely have to have the power.. You don't give the mileage on the used units, but I'd say the '03 Boxster S should sell for closer to $40K.

    I'd pick option #1, if I could get it around $44K.. Plus, that is my favorite color... as if that matters.. Maybe they'd even knock off a thousand and swap for those 17" wheels on the CPO unit.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • visorvisor Posts: 8
    Thanks Shiftright and kyfdx. thatz a good point on the wheels which actually got me excited initially, but i see the point. spoke to them but looks like the price is not gonna come down much. will explore the option to swap wheels when meeting them tomorrow. i was looking forward to driving a speed yellow:) but what the heck, seal grey looks cool too. thanks again.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    I just got the Porsche email about the Cayman also....

    but I was disappointed that its not going to be a 4 door, 4 seater..GT tourer....a 928 replacement... :-(

    any one know how it looks ? I could not get any pictures of the Cayman . Just got the new Chrisotphorus issue....and it did not even talk about the Cayman....

    what's with Porsche naming the cars with "Cay" prefixes ? Cayenne, Cayman, .. ? ;-)

    wouldn't numbers ala 911 be better...or are they really not the sports cars that Porsche wanted them to be ... ?
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    I offered $16,000 for the 928...1993 GTS. considering it had some electrical issues, needed AC pump, paint repair, glass repair, and had 110,000 miles...

    he wanted $20,000....which would be OK if it did not have all those issues...which may not be minor....

    saw some nice ones on ebay....but got outbid... :-(

    still looking.. .....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    Why don't you call Hi-Tec and have them build you up a car? They have a white 928 automatic that needs a transmission. Clean car otherwise.

    A very clean GTS with no problems and decent miles should be worth $30K.

    If you are buying an older 928, an automatic is way better than any 928 with a dual-disk clutch system. (up to 1987 I think).

    MODERATOR

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    OK...I'll give them a call...

    I really want a automatic...because
    1- according to many people, the auto is better in the 928....due to weight
    2- I am not really comfortable with the layout shift pattern of the 928...where 1st gear is bottom left, instead of top left .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    Yes, it's called the LeMans transmission I believe. The shift pattern...well, you get used to it, but you can get confused sometime when downshifting, that's true. The stickshift 928s up to 1987 are a bear to drive...not because of the transmission but because of that 2-disk clutch. It hangs up on you, and doesn't release very quickly. You 'll have some clutch problem or another every 10,000 miles, I guarantee it.

    MODERATOR

  • visorvisor Posts: 8
    Looks like we are getting the price closer to $44k,however the dealer mentioned an interesting point that he cant swap the 18" on this one to say another set of 16" or 17" (as in the CPO in this case) as it is illegal for him to sell the other car later as it wont match what the car sticker came with. I dont know if this is a law or some story - any insights, or is this a WA law ?
    BTW, the tires that come with this car are summer tires, is that standard, since we dont have more than at the most couple of weeks of snow and may be a few more weeks of morning icy roads in some spots - any advice on what is the best way to deal with the issue of winter tires. I believe having all season tires instead of summer tires can pull down speed and mileage. We would need winter tires for no more than 3 months. Appreciate feedback on this too.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,056
    Well... since the other car is used, I'd think he could sell it with any kind of wheels.. But, maybe the certification is a problem there.. Or, he'd just rather not do it..

    Anyway, I'd rather have the 17" wheels, but I don't think I would base my entire decision on that...

    I have to believe that a winter tire/wheel set-up is going to be very expensive on a Boxster.. You are correct, you will notice a big dropoff in handling with all-season tires, but it won't affect mileage or speed (other than traction in stop-light racing).

    If you do get winter tires, you'll need a set of 17" wheels to put them on... You wouldn't want to get 18" winters and put them on your stock wheels.. (not sure winter tires would even be available in that size).

    Of course, the easiest solution is to leave your car home on bad days, but not everyone can do that.. You definitely don't want to be out on any ice or snow with performance summer tires..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    I'm repeating but I want to emphasize it -- if you're going to drive the car when it's below 40-45 degrees, get winter tires. It's not just the snow, the colder temperature will make summer tires hard as the pavement they're trying to grip, and your grip will go ka-poof.

    And, yes, Porsches come with ultra-high performance Z-rater tires (i.e., summer tires). To understand why, check the speedometer. It really goes that fast .... it's not a Toyota.

    If you're going to drive a Porsche, you have to be willing to spend Porsche money. It will cost about $45 to get my daily car ready for summer; next week I'll spend close to a thousand prepping my 911 ... and it doesn't need repairs.

    If you try to cut corners, or to drive it like an all-weather looks-sporty Eclipse, you won't be happy with it.

    I agree, too, that if you are buying a used car, there is no reason the dealer needs to stick to the production list. But I wouldn't turn in those 18" wheels -- I'd keep those for summer driving. (You'll like them as the car's suspension is designed to handle them.) And then, over this summer, go to Rennlist in the classified section and buy a set of used 17" Boxster wheels ($1000 or less), mount your winter tires (another $800), and you're good to go next fall.

    JW
  • visorvisor Posts: 8
    hi jwilson & kyfdx,
    thanks guys, we drove out our boxster today. we did get them to swap the wheels to a 17" from 18" and were also able to get the price under 42k (pre-tax/licensing). the guys were very helpful, we actually got a home delivery from the dealership. man, this car is giving some sleepless nights ! we have a downtown apartment and the leaving the car in the basement parking lot is making me sleepless:)<BTW any tips on things to prevent accidental scratches on the doors when the adjacent parked cars open their doors?? we heard about this thin film you put on the front hood to prevent chiping- anything equivalent for the doors ??) this car is going to drive us into a home with garage very soon :). thanks once again for the helpful advice. just wanted to share this information.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Sounds like you have negotiating talents that are better than you led us to believe. Enjoy the honeymoon with one of the best sports cars around. Most Porsche owners are anal about scratches and such… no big deal, just sit on a piece of coal and voila&#151;you have a diamond!

    ;-)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    It works but it isn't all that attractive.

    Think of your first chip or dent as the "chip of liberation"---once you get it, you'll stop waiting for it to happen.

    My car has all kinds of little battle scars--it's a badge of honor---it says "hey, I DRIVE a Porsche, not store it".

    Porsches are very tough automobiles and one of the very few prestige cars that actually look good with a few marks on them...kinda like a hunting dog or jumping horse.

    MODERATOR

  • visorvisor Posts: 8
    so the first disturbing thing i found in the new car is that when you bring the top up(to close), it doesnt fully stretch upto the latch, it needs a push to get it latched. so when i spoke to the dealership, they said, it needs some stretching and will be fine after about 5-8 times. is that a common problem with new cars lying in stock?

    also any tips on driving uphill with a stop n go traffic? normally in other stick shifts, i have played the clutch and accelerator to stay put however, i was told that porsche clutch is different and you are not supposed to do that. any insight?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    You're not supposed to do that with ANY clutch car. That's a bad habit you should try and break yourself out of, if you can.

    Dealer's response to the top problem is not acceptable but I suppose you could wait and see a week or so. Porsche does not normally build tops that "need stretching".

    MODERATOR

  • First of all, I value the ideas and opinions of the members of this board. I need some feedback with regards to purchasing a pre-owned Boxter in my area. The car is a 1997 base boxster with 35,000 miles. The dealer is asking $18,900. I have ran a carfax report on it and came back clean. The body/paint is in excellent condition. There is some sun fade to the carpet, but the top is in excellent condition. I did notice that the floor mats are somewhat faded, but I can't tell if this is due to cleaning the mats or an indication of previous moisture.

    Is there anything that I should be concerned with before considering purchasing this vehicle? If purchased, this will be a daily driver. So I would like to know the pros and cons of this. Thanks in advance.
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    Here's some advice I picked up from the British School of Motoring before tackling the British driver's license test:

    Learn to use your handbrake.

    In the UK, it's actually the law. When you stop at a traffic light, etc. in a manual shift car, you must engage the handbrake in case you get rear-ended. Same thing after an emergency stop. This is on level pavement, too. On a hill, you engage the handbrake, put the car in neutral, and when you need to resume driving, you engage the clutch until it bites, then disengage the handbrake. This also prevents you from rolling backwards into the car behind you.

    Now this is second nature to me. So even in the States I have these British driving habits and I think it makes me a better driver overall. Granted this technique exists in the US, but it's hardly ever taught or passed down. Emphasis on automatic transmissions around here.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,619
    Well base Boxsters are very plentiful and should not be paying the asking price. I'd shoot for $17K to $17.5K at the most.

    Carfax does not list all types of damage, so you should have the car inspected by an independent shop. You could have $10,000 body damage to that car and Carfax wouldn't know a thing about it unless it appears in public records.

    MODERATOR

  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    designman et al...I was browsing dealer inventory today in order to check out color combinations and stumbled upon Ray Catena in Edison, NJ. Of all the dealers in NJ/PA, they apparently have by far the most inspiration in terms of color, so it was interesting checking out their inventory. Notably, given our recent discussion on Dark Olive, Catena has a stunning Dark Olive/Sand beige Boxster S in stock. Also have a Turbo S Cab in Olive/Natural Brown....Given the color limitations of browsers, I may have to cruise up Rt. 1 to check them out. :o))
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yeah definitely go there if you can and let me know your impressions, especially the Olive/Brown Turbo. I don't expect to see that combo too often if ever. It could be your only chance to see it.
  • indyeindye Posts: 2
    S2Much:
    The handbrake is essential for driving any manual auto. But I hardly ever hear of anyone promoting the use of the HB on level ground, or at stop lights.
    While my dad was in the airforce (stationed in Europe), he gained some good driving habits... namely using the HB in daily driving and that's the way he taught me to drive. You're right it's almost instinct now...even at stoplights. I wish they'd teach this method to kids at driver's school.
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    indye:

    It's great that you use your HB at stoplights. Can't say I'm consistent about it except on hills. Probably the biggest adjustment I had to make in order to earn a British driver's license was the importance of context, i.e. the rules of the road are not hard-and-fast, but instead depend upon the situation. So a give-way was a hybrid stop sign and yield sign, etc. Same thing applied to using a HB. At first I thought now that's a silly idea, after all don't you want your car to bounce instead of stay put when getting rear-ended, but he said you must consider the car in front of you. So you must take a hit for the next guy. Imagine teaching that kind of selflessness to SUV drivers! lol

    BTW, anyone checking out the new Panamera four-door? It's exactly what some of us were mulling over a year or so ago...a stetched 911 look, leveraging the sports car platform for a sedan that looks more like a coupe. I still wonder whether Porsche would have been better off doing this instead of the Cayenne, but so far I've been proven wrong in that the Cayenne has had some enduring success.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,602
    the Cayenne has had some enduring success.

    The Cayenne has been successful, at the price of the factory racing programs. It remains to be seen whether It will have done more good for Porsche than racing did. It's to soon to call the Big Pepper an "enduring" success.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    HI speeds2much:

    , but he said you must consider the car in front of you. So you must take a hit for the next guy. Imagine teaching that kind of selflessness to SUV drivers! lol

    Hey, SUV drivers don't need to use the handbrake...cause the car would be less likely to move when rear-ended. If one does hit the front car when rear ended...then the driver who hit the front car, and the first driver that hit that car...would be responsible.

    I take offense at that :-( ..... ;-)

    ....I drive a suburban and a cayenne.... and show much courtesy to other drivers. We give to a wide range of charities...and gave over 5 figures in monetary contributions last year, not counting volunteer time nor Salvation Army contributions. To say SUV drivers are selfish is like saying sports car drivers are selfish hogs of the road....which is not true.

    BTW, anyone checking out the new Panamera four-door? It's exactly what some of us were mulling over a year or so ago...a stetched 911 look, leveraging the sports car platform for a sedan that looks more like a coupe.

    Yes...I remember us talking about it. I would like to see a V8 GT sedan....ala 928....that would really fulfill alot of needs of the baby boomers. The boxster and 911 is just too small for us with families. The 4 door sedan would be great...better than the Maserati sedan , IMO.



    I still wonder whether Porsche would have been better off doing this instead of the Cayenne, but so far I've been proven wrong in that the Cayenne has had some enduring success.

    yes.( offf topic) ...Cayenne has proven naysayers wrong...it was relatively a hit. (though how long this lasts will be iffy, with gas prices going up) . THe numbers sold has increased....while all other models had decreased. Weideking called this one correctly, though the naysayers caused the Porsche company to do much soul searching, thus wasting all that time...and let the X5 , XC90, FX45, RR, Lexus , etc...steal much market share... IMO, Porsche came to the SUV market too late; they should have come in 5 years ago....not in 2003, but 2000, at the latest. The SUV will decrease in popularity...due to gas prices, end of baby boom
    let generation, and style and political correctness. The baby boomlet generation has kids who are now going to grade school and many have college or older kids...so the need for SUVs will decrease as these kids emptinest out....

    Now Porsche can remain independent, the stock has gone up.....and the company now has $ 2 billion plus in CASH....they will not even need to go to the bankers for their next project...they can self finance it....!!!

    All they need to do is to solve some minor glitches in the cayenne, then move on to the sedanGT, and use the cayenne engine ,( which is a work of art) .......and get back into racing.

    Leave the cayenne cash tree to produce the money that Porsche needs.....

    Porsche will not decide on the 4th model line, if at all, until late this year or early next year....

    they did read one thing correctly, IMO...(and I know this will grate on many Porsche enthusiasts) and that is to go into HYBRIDS.

    Porsche was thinking about having a hybrid example for each model...with emphasis on performance...nothing less.

    It was thinking about teaming up with GM or DaimlerChrysler...but it did not go thru....

    hope they find a partner ....

    let the complaints begin... ;-)
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    To say SUV drivers are selfish is like saying sports car drivers are selfish hogs of the road...which is not true.

    Oops, s'pose I placed my foot in my mouth. I was using SUV as a metaphor only because of comments I've heard from owners in the past, i.e. their safety vs. the fate of anyone they hit. But certainly that's not to say all SUV owners are selfish, or even the majority. Most folks I'm sure need the winter or towing capabilities, etc. I'd actually consider buying one as a winter vehicle (always loved my father's QX4).

    ...but wouldn't a 997 with winter tires make a fine winter car? ;)

    Looked at Porsches today as planned, and walked away thinking black/black. Besides the fact that this configuration is "free," I thought the brushed aluminum interior looked best against black. Dark olive was a fine color, a subtle variation of black with an extra metallic sparkle and a hint of green. It's so close to black, however, that where money's an issue, it's probably not worth the extra $$.

    I also sat in an adaptive sport seat and think it has to be the best car seat I've ever found. Amazing. But it seems from the Car Configurator that it requires a leather package for black interiors, so all-in the option's about $5k. I need to research this more.

    I was also disappointed to see the extra buttons and port for a phone and SIM card, only to learn that it's GSM-based and not available in the US.

    Looking forward to Cayman info and photos, but seems the 997 remains the better choice as an only car for the traction and jump seats. The classic styling is nice, too. Car in black was drop-dead beautiful.
  • speeds2muchspeeds2much Posts: 164
    The question of opportunity cost is an interesting one.

    Besides the issue of lost racing exposure and experience, I wonder whether the cost of developing a new platform would have been allocated more efficiently by stretching an AWD 996 platform for a sedan and updating the 996/986.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    Hi...lol...you are forgiven... :-)

    I do have to say the 997 is a great car...and I liked the 928 and still am thinking about one...dreaming, actually.

    had a boxster...but I think in a few years my wife will let me get a used 997...

    cheers !
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