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Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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    subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    That was the most balanced and well written review I've seen. I think he waxed a poetic about the power (still think 25 or do extra hp would be nice) but overall he did a very credible job.

    I would have also disagreed about the mileage but not now. Some of you have probably read my posts grousing about getting 14 or 15 mpg here in Chicago. Since I broke the 5K mileage mark and with cooler weather - AKA no A/C - I am now getting approximately 17 to 18 mpg in the Chicago area which breaks down as about 60% city and 40% urban highway.

    I have also found the following after experimenting with fuel grades. It is definetly more cost effective to run the recommended Premium grade. It costs about 10% more but with it I am getting about 20% better MPG.
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    cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    try MID Grade 89 Octane. I dont gain any more mileage between 89 and 93 octane. but I do notice a bit of performance gain going from 89 to 93 octane
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    subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    My regional SOA rep told me today about some of the upgrades for 07:

    Rear sonar park assist

    Steering Wheel button will move through pre-sets not next station.

    Maybe memory seats

    He also said there is test mule B9 at the Indiana plant with a 6 cyl turbo. He said he knows it is a turbo but it might be a twin turbo. Wouldn't a twin turbo be sweet? No info on if or when it might be available.
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    megreyhairmegreyhair Member Posts: 154
    Oh GREAT!!!!! :mad:
    After spending $35K, now they have the goodies I want... :(
    oh well....
    Why didn't they do it for 06 and had to wait for 07 :cry:
    I mean sonar backup assist or memory seats or turbo are not 'latest' technology or something..... Now I m pissed...
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru will go Cayenne-hunting in that case. Wow.

    To be honest I'm not sure that will help sales volumes a whole lot, as that would push a loaded one up over $40k.

    I hope they can keep the price down, so a complex twin-turbo might be too much to succeed at the price it would have to cost.

    Nice review by Texarkana, though I don't think Formula 1 cars use boxer engines (V10 IIRC).

    Probably the review with the fewest mistakes so far! :D

    -juice
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Twin Turbo may not sell a lot because of the price, but you can bet it'll get Subaru some great press coverage and create a true halo-vehicle flagship. They'll really need to do something to get those CAFE numbers better, though.
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    I received an email from Subaru yesterday regarding the availability of updated dvd's for the Nav system. Here was their response:

    "Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your message.

    Updated maps/discs for the Navigation System in your 2006 B9 Tribeca should be available for purchase next Summer. At this time, we are unsure if these discs will be available directly from the Navigation supplier or through authorized Subaru dealerships. Please contact us late next Spring for this information."

    -Karen in AZ-
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    I also emailed Dension the other day asking about a Subaru version of their popular Ice Link Plus for connecting an iPod to the newer Subie models. Here was their response:

    "Probably this time next year. We are always looking to expand our products to be compatible with all vehicles."

    -Karen in AZ-
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    subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    SOA must attract new buyers to the brand. They can not expect their core customer to step up because as you state price is very important you. You appear to be the typical subie loyalist.

    SOA needs to draw new blood into the family and they can not do that with price. They can only do it with features, performance and good old sizzle.

    There are many would be subie buyers who are not turned off by the price if the car is sexy enough.

    So why would it bother you if there were subies at a price point acceptable to you and other models that are in 45 to 60K range that meet that demographics expectations.

    It would be silly not.
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    saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    So why would it bother you if there were subies at a price point acceptable to you and other models that are in 45 to 60K range that meet that demographics expectations

    It is not a problem of bothering present Subaru buyers. It is a problem to try what failed miserably at VW.....adding high priced models to a brand not considered to be premium by the public. A turbo six 'Becca might make sense as a Lexus model if the styling were sufficiently differentiated. There is also the major problem of CAFE requirements; the normally aspirated six is thirsty enough without a turbo that it is not offered in the Legacy (auto, not light truck category) just because of the CAFE problem!

    Of course, I would personally be interested in one (But I fell for the VW Passat W8 so my judgment is suspect.) :)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, they need new buyers, but there is a psychological price limit that people have for Subarus. It could knock a Cayenne Turbo's socks off but if the price was $45k all the public could focus on is...

    45 grand for a Subaru?

    No matter how good. Look at the Phaeton - bombed. Even the Passat W8 was too pricey, $40k for a VW? Didn't matter that it had AWD, a V8, came in a wagon, so what? It's a VW. You can't do that. Cachet is a major factor.

    You can't leap up in price/prestige suddenly, you creep up slowly and earn it.

    Would it bother me if they made a twin turbo? Well, not as long as I got to sample one! LOL

    But to be honest, I think that is a risky business decision, and I want to see Subaru turn a profit, not go down in flames.

    I'd rather see them change the engine in all models to a 3.3-3.5l or so, and maybe offer a light-boost turbo on a Limited Sport model that kept prices under $40k loaded, which is possible.

    -juice
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    movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    Lack of sonar/rear camera and memory seats steered me away from the Tribeca (and a little bit of fuel worries as well). It is great they are actually listening to consumers and adding the little things that make a difference.

    Too bad I already spend my money on new 06 Outback this year. I won't be seeing a 2007 Tribeca in my garage next year, or even in the next 4 years. :cry:

    But now a twin turbo? Turbo will certainly make it less fuel efficient. A official 15 MPG would make it look as bad as the Toureg.
    IMHO, instead adding a turbo Subaru should make the Tribeca lighter (more alum parts, like the rear hatch in the Outback) and put a 7 speed auto transmission (like the Mercedes R-class). It would improve fuel economy, acceleration from standstill and get some more towing load.
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    morey000morey000 Member Posts: 384
    Great upgrades. The steering wheel button fix is well needed. The memory seats are as well. The turbo- well, the B9 isn't exactly underpowered as it is- so that one just doesn't really make sense to me.

    The one upgrade that is woefully needed is an improved air conditioner. Any word on that? It's a pretty much unusable vehicle here in Arizona for that reason alone.

    Oh- I'd like the roof rack to slide as well.
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    vger105vger105 Member Posts: 57
    Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all got around the stigma of expensive products not consistent with traditional perceptions by creating new "luxury brands;" Lexus, Acura, and Infinity. Maybe if Subaru wishes to go upmarket, a new brand might be the wisest thing to do.
    This, of course, creates the problem of a _name_ for that brand. OK, here goes; "Capella" (the name of a star).
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hmmm, that translates to she-goat. Scales mountains like a goat? Maybe a variation of Acappella - the Subbie that sings without accompaniment.

    Steve, Host
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I have to call possible baloney on that one. When there is legitimate product info, the reps are the last to find out and under strict orders not to spill the beans. On the other hand, we know that a lot of these guys love to spout off incorrect info. So I would take it with a major grain of salt. The turbo H6 is especially dubious given what we know about Subaru's engine lines.

    Craig
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    vger105vger105 Member Posts: 57
    Oooops! I forgot about translations. I wouldn't feel comfortable driving an '08 twin turbo She Goat.
    Back to my astronomy maps.....
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    cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    thanks Karen for the info on the NAV disc. disappointing they wont update until Summer :(

    the alpine ones were I think 2 x per year. the one we have in our B9s are probably a year old already by the time they make production and ship the car...

    I am a bit disappointed in the remapping system of the NAV, I have had multiple times where it will send me off on a smaller side street out 3 miles on a long loop back to intersect with the road I am currently driving on further up. it is not shorter nor is it faster the route the computer remapped for me :(
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it might even be too early. Often decisions are made late in the game. If the production line will start cranking out 07s in April, the final decision may not be made until a month or two before. They can adjust the assembly line quickly for minor changes like that (memory seats, sonar, etc.).

    Perhaps mayberryguy has a better hold on lead times.

    I think those things are probably on the "wish list", but noone will know until much closer to production.

    -juice
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    tsportytsporty Member Posts: 13
    We love our new Tribeca and can't wait to drive it up to the mountains in the snow, but down here in San Diego we haven't even got her wet in the rain yet. I noted an earlier post about fish tailing here but never found the origins of it and wondered if anyone has had a chance to really drive a Tribeca on some adverse road conditions with all the electronics tied to the AWD system and how it performed. Also how the HVAC system-defrosters, wiper/mirror heaters etc... have performed in extreme situations
    We also have a 5-speed WRX wagon and have been impressed with its simpler mechanical 50/50 torque split system.
    We know that even Subarus can't overcome physics (a big danger with folks with 4WD SUVs flying down slippery roadways and then rolling right off them) but seems like the Subaru will take good care of you if you drive sanely.
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    robotb9robotb9 Member Posts: 82
    Fishtailing? Hasn't happened to me, and I've had a few opportunities to drive in snow lately in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin. Relax and don't worry.
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The active AWD subarus with the FWD bias will understeer when pushed in snow, but all other Subarus, including the 50/50 MT models and the VTD models with a slight rear bias will be more than happy to kick the tail out. Something to keep in mind -- yeah it's AWD, but the upshot is that power squirts out of the rear wheels! A lot of people coming from dumb/predictable FWD vehicles may be surprised when their AWD vehicle gets tail happy all of a sudden. It's worth playing around in a snowy parking lot to get a feel for the car.

    I would expect VDC to keep this in check on the B9. My OB XT, however, will rotate and even let you drift through turns!

    Craig
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    dell128dell128 Member Posts: 11
    No experience with snow yet in NJ but heavy rain driving on highway created some concern while braking at around 50 mph. It's possible that the safety features kicked in and removed me from the equation but the experience was very disconcerting to say the least. And it did happen twice. I've got around 7500 miles so far and dealer found no problem with the brakes.
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    subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    The rep said a turbo possibly a dual turbo exists at the plant in Indiana. He did not say it was planned for production. Having a test vehicle in way means it will happen.
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    subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    Can you tell us what it did?
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Interesting about the AC note...I have found it to be fabulous this past summer in the Phoenix area. I will note, however, that I keep the vent closed (recirc ON) at all times in the heat...otherwise it just sucks more hot air into the cabin, defeating the system's effectiveness.

    I am having more issues with the AC being on in the COLD weather right now. It seems to have a mind of it's own when you turn it on: the compressor always wants to turn on, either in AUTO or just turning the fan ON, no matter where the temp is set. I have to manually turn the AC off just to get heat. It does respond quickly, though, and heats up in a big hurry! Still, it's an annoyance...

    -Karen in AZ-
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Snow? What's that???

    :-)

    -Karen in AZ-
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    aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    I agree with Karen, the A/C in my Subaru effectively cools the cabin on a hot NC day. I usually leave the windows cracked for the first couple of minutes to push out the hot air and even with passengers in the middle row seat, activating the rear A/C speeds the cooling up.

    Granted, there is much more volume in the vehicle compared to my nephews Toyota Corolla (which will get you bone chilling cold in no time) the B9 is excellent when looking at vehicles in similar size constraints.

    AKA
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    dell128dell128 Member Posts: 11
    The car in front of me was about 10 car lengths ahead when its brake lights came. I gently tapped the brakes (at least I thought) to maintain the same distance and the B9 felt as if it were hydroplaning. I was in the middle lane of a 5 lane straight stretch of highway and did not see any sizeable puddles. But this did happen twice in the same night on the same highway but twenty miles apart. I did try to reproduce during other rainy drives but no success. This is my first vheicle with AWD/VDC/EBD so perhaps this is the way it is.
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    aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    I was lucky enough to drive my Tribeca in snow in Michigan over the Thanksgiving weekend. The vehicle performed flawlessly. When compared with my Audi A6, the VDC was working harder than Audi's ESP- understandably so because of the greater weight in the B9. The tires are not the best for driving in the snow either- adequate to say the least. Serious snow driving needs snow tires- these all seasons do better in the rain and dry weather.

    You can turn off the VDC and hang the tail out all day long, if you get on the throttle just right, you can push the rear end out, and then lightly get on the throttle to have the front wheels pull you through the turn. Leaving the VDC on, I experience a little bit of understeer before the system activated the brakes and regained control- and nailing the throttle out of the turn will allow the tail to come out a bit before the traction control stops the wheel spin and VDC put the car back on the right path.

    Didn't get too much deep snow, but I am sure it would have done exceptional. I have noticed that on the Murano and the MDX when you look at it from the side, you can see the exhaust and suspension components hanging low- while on the B9 everything is tucked away and all you see is a smooth uncluttered underbody.

    AKA
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    charlestcharlest Member Posts: 7
    Hey guys, I'm loving the forum and all the info in it. I saw a few posts about a sonar warning system for backing up but it was quickly dropped. Has anyone had any real experience with this and the Tribeca? I'm currently looking for a reputable dealer and installer for a sonar system in New York. My driveway drops about 4 feet below street level and slops at a 45-degree angle so backing out of it is an exercise in faith. Its basically a blind reverse except for the extremely depth-challenged side mirrors and I cant even see the street until the front wheels are already on the sidewalk and I'm halfway into the street! I've missed my wife's car by inches a few times and I know my luck will run out eventually.
    Finally, I've had my Subie since Labor Day but its now time for its first oil change (3500 miles). Does anyone know if the fuel filters for the Tribeca are readily available or am I forced to go back to the dealership? Also, do the synthetic oils work better in the Tribeca than the ordinary oils? Thanks for any help guys and I'm loving my Tribeca! :D

    -Charles from NY
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    it may have hydroplaned because the stock Goodyear tires are a piece of junk. get better rubber and you will truely appreciate the subaru engineering.
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Karen, you might want to venture over to the legacygt website and read the sticky on auto climate control. The AC light does not indicate that AC is actually running, just that it can run (when it's too cold to run the light will stay off). The light on indicates that AC may cycle on/off as needed to keep the compressor healthy and/or to dehumidify. But it's not on full-time full-blast in a cooling mode like in the summer. So you can pretty much ignore the AC indicator and not fight with the system. It's smart enough to not blow cold air on you in the winter -- in fact, the system will wait until the engine warms up before the blower starts up. That's another feature that causes confusion.

    I am convinced Acura did a better job avoiding confusion in this regard -- there is no AC indicator, so most people don't really know when it's on (however, it will flash an AC off light if you manually disable it on purpose).

    Craig
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    aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    You should go to your dealership for your first oil change- they usually do it for free, mine actually includes oil changes for the first year complimentary. They charge 19.99+tax for H6 engines, so its probably just as cost effective (time, labor, parts) to have the dealer do it.

    If you still have a need to change the oil yourself, I would buy two or three filters from the dealer, this way you get OEM quality filters, and they usually give you a good price as well.

    AKA
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    morey000morey000 Member Posts: 384
    Thanks for your input Karen. Given that you're from Phoenix- I trust you know what you're talking about when it comes to real heat!

    But- that's the point. You really NEED to keep it on recirc to work. Other cars will give you fresh air that is cool. Glad it's working for you- but I'm a fresh air kinda' guy.

    Oh- and "snow" is that white stuff you see on TV.

    Morey
    -Tucson
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I usually do my own oil. My lil' brother brought his Legacy over the other day for me to help him and it was so cold that we chickened out, so he went to the dealer.

    When it warms up I'll teach him how to do it, but not if it's freezing out.

    -juice
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    x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    nice. I'd be interested in the larger mirror with 3.5" lcd, but i'm sure its expensive and price isnt listed on the site
    http://www.rostra.com/RearSight.htm

    guess you have to call up.
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    x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    "I like the pearlescent effect on the new white color."

    -juice

    new white color? How new? just new for the tribeca not newer white color then the orig Satin White Pearl it came in when the B9 first came out?
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    x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    Yeah besides those upgrades mentioned for the 07 model, what about many other like myself that had to get the 7 pass. (3rd row) just to get NAV, as they didn't offer 5 pass with Nav till much later.

    This on top of the fact that if you want audio inputs for portable xm or mp3 player etc. you had to get the $1800 dvd option and the audio inputs are all the way in the back.

    At least I use the audio inputs every day though the dvd player only a few times. But with the 3rd row while I figured it was nice to have then not, I have never used it and may never and worry more that it adds to the weight and therefore takes away from performance and cause lower mpg.

    The only thing I can hope is that 3rd row i was forced to get adds to the resale value when I go to sell it or trade it in for an 07 Turbo Tribeca with all the missing options and hopefully audio inputs up front (as my B9 is fully paid for and not leased which could be good or bad for me) Good in that I dont have to wait 3-4 yrs for lease to be up, but the chance that I change car sooner then that is doubtful and to really get your moneys worth on a paid for car you should keep it about 5 yrs like I usually do so thats bad.

    Maybe I just wait for the hybrid Audi SUV in a few years to step up in luxury and keep with AWD that is just as good or better?
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    x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    I agree that the general public will not spend BMW/MB money for a Subaru though I am not one of them. The high end priced VW models is a good example but though the Passat W8 and Phaeton both of which I think are great may have not done so well as you say the Touareg has and that is also a pricey and luxury VW model.

    So its not to say it can't work. But if convincing or tricking the public is neccessary, then why doesnt' Subaru create a luxury line the way Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti did?

    I mean Audi is basically a luxury VW yet VW made those 3 more luxury high performance models mentioned. But a new Subaru luxury line would allow them to persue those types of cars and their customers and separate and not alienate the loyal economic subaru customers.

    I'm sure Toyota after buying and now owning a large share in Subaru they recently acquired from GM could help make a new Subaru brand happen.

    And speaking help from Toyota, they could easily make a hybrid Tribeca happen with improved performance and HP like toyota does in its other hybrid models (see RX400h Horse power compared to rx330 etc.) killing 2 birds with one stone (improved fuel econ and improved HP) at the same time and negating the need for a fuel thirsty turbo.
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    x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    I wanted to mention that ever since the fender bender i had in the front driver side wheel. I have squeaking/creaking that seems to be mostly braking related but sometimes happens with no brakes just when going over a slight bump like into garage or out of driveway.

    The body shop gladly took it back to remedy free of charge as part of the original repairs but said they saw nothing wrong and that they heard it and it just needed some lubrication somewhere.

    Well it still does it and seems slightly worse in cold or rain and I'm not looking forward to calling them back up and taking it back and possibly being without my beca for another day or more as last time I had a Kia rental car that was no fun.

    Maybe this is more for problems and solutions forum, where is that again? and while it should be on them to figure out whats causing it and remedy it, I thought maybe anyone here would have an idea so i can help clue the bod shop in on the 2nd attempt to fix.

    Again its a squeaking or creaking that happens when I say brake at a stop sign and again when i accelerate. At first i almost though it was the plasticky part of the bumper or wheel well moving but it seems to be brake related, although it also happens i think with no braking and just a slight bump making me think it was something with the shock absorber/suspension as well in that wheel creaking.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I mean Audi is basically a luxury VW yet VW made those 3 more luxury high performance models mentioned. But a new Subaru luxury line would allow them to persue those types of cars and their customers and separate and not alienate the loyal economic subaru customers.

    IMHO, I think that Piech's plan was to have Audi compete against BMW and have VW move upmarket and compete against MB. They see them as 2 distinct markets - sport sedans and luxury sedans.

    VW is seeing it's domestic (European) market share starting to be challenged by Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai. Just like Subaru, it needs to move upmarket because it knows that in the near future, it'll be overtaken by new competition. It could do it just like Subaru could but it tried to go too fast.
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    jbgrahamjbgraham Member Posts: 34
    Try googling Peter D. DeLorenzo to find his website and an interesting analysis of Piech's plan - among other erudite diatribes. Click "rants". You won't be disappointed. Also some Subaru analysis from time to time.
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    tsportytsporty Member Posts: 13
    I wonder if the discs where just wet from not having been used for a while and that first tap just wiped them off, still sounds disconcerting-probably more of an unusual feeling rather than a real performance issue.
    I finally got my ABS ECU replaced in my WRX after Subaru admitted what they called "a delayed response feel" which actually was a MORE than disconcerting response of the ABS prematurely activating when moderately hard braking while simultaneously going over a bump/pothole causing the brake pedal to sink to the floor and feeling like you lost 80% of your braking ability-only happened 7 or 8 times in four years but scared the crap out of me while that bumper of the car ahead rushed towards you. I hope its nothing like that-the brakes in the Tribeca feel very powerful to me if a bit mushy feeling in the pedal.
    Thanks others about comments on driving in the snow. I wish I could find a snow covered parking lot to ascertain the limits of the vehicle better-(and have some fun!-I do like to drift in the WRX!) I used to when living in the mountains and do exactly that in all the cars I would drive. Alas I am like Karen in Arizona having a vehicle whose true capabilities will rarely be utilized. Still like to know they are there.
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Craig, that's good to know. However, in my experience, when the AC light has been on, it's putting out ccccccold air...brrrr! I'll experiment with it an head over to the other page...thanks!

    -Karen-
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Having lived in indiana (but not Japan), I imagine Subaru wasn't thinking about our 198-degree summer heat out here when they designed this car :shades:

    Still, it gets cold (and hot, too) in a big hurry. I also have the rear AC, which helps a lot, and my mom and grandma (frequent back seat passengers) really appreciate it! The heater vents under the front seats also put out a decent amount of hot air to the back seat folks fairly quickly, too.

    It's been chilly enough here at night that I have already enjoyed the front seat derriere warmers, too :)
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    aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    I feel that it is important to have the knowledge on how to change your own oil. I've done many many oil changes and the feeling of hot oil dripping down your arm is one you'll never forget, nor dropping the drain plug in the container collecting the oil and having to fish for the plug!

    I live in a condo complex, and I have a hard time just washing the car here, they would probably want to fine me for changing my oil here.

    AKA
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    megreyhairmegreyhair Member Posts: 154
    Same here.. Its annoying.. It also changes the mode by itself too. When from heating duct to bi-level....
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    aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Next time you have a some bad weather, it may be worth it to find an empty large parking lot and push your car to see how it performs in the snow/rain/ice. You'll feel more confident the next time the weather gets bad as well.

    AKA
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, same white color from the launch, new to Subaru I believe for MY06. Or was it offered on the Outback for MY05? Even then it's relatively new. Subaru used to use more metallic colors, now they're pearls.

    3rd row does help resale. Terry helps appraise used vehicles and he always asks if it has a 3rd row. Not only does it add resale value, but also it's easier to resell.

    Touarge did well early on, but sales have plunged lately. VW could not sustain a high priced SUV, so now they have deep, deep discounts. Even so, sales are way down.

    I've been Piech's #1 critic, starting a long time ago (ask Bob). Dumb names, wrong segment, wrong price, cannibalizing Audi. VW is bleeding red ink badly. I nailed it.

    Luxurious SUVs were booming a couple of years ago, but the segment seems to be cooling off significantly. Subaru might have just had bad timing.

    Now that Toyota is a partner, I doubt Subaru will create an upscale brand; that would compete with Lexus.

    -juice
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