Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

explorerx4

That sounds like what I need for my Mustang.
It's 20 years old and I have been driving it about 3 tanks a year for the last few years.
Occasionally, I do like to drive it to work.
When we built our house, I added garage just for this car.

hpmctorque

I interpret your message to mean that your 300E needed no engine work, other than maintenance and maybe accessories, but what about the transmission?

What failed on the enjine of your 535i?

jwilliams2

No internal engine work was needed. Not even a head gasket. I did replace the fuel relay module, and of course the radiator (watch the upper neck). Other than that just what I consider normal maintenance items and suspension parts as they wore. I never had any problems with the transmission. Not crazy about the default second gear start, though.

The BMW had quite a few FI, electrical and finally valve problems. Loved the car, but it was much more service intensive. I just wasn't willing to have the motor torn apart to make it run properly, so I sold it.

qbrozen

well, like I said, she wanted to see pics and make sure it was in excellent condition. But that's probably also related to WHAT it is. I'm sure a car in rough condition that is far more collectible would still qualify.

I would still go with Hagerty IF it was a car I didn't drive. All of their rules are just too restrictive, though. I mean, if wife is using the car to go to the bank and wrecks it, Hagerty can say "Tough. You were using it for a purpose other than contracted for." And I could live with that if it was just the car ... but if somebody else's car or body gets hurt in the process, we could easily be financially destroyed.

xwesx

I think I looked at Hagerty before, and they didn't cover Alaska. And, of course, my vehicles do not have a garage to call home. The problem I have is with paying ~$50 per month for coverage during the "on-season" just for the liability, as if they were a DD that demanded that sort of coverage.

I think carrying liability on a vehicle is asinine. Liability should be attached to the driver, not the vehicle, and the coverage follows the driver. After all, it isn't the vehicle's fault if you crash it! Comprehensive and collision should follow the vehicle. Alaska doesn't do this, though, and I am honestly not sure if there are any states that do.

Does that not make sense, or am I just off my rocker here?

tjc78

I can't believe you can insure anything in NJ that cheaply. Good research pays off!

How does classic car insurance work? Does it only cover the vehicle and your normal DD policy covers your liability?

It just seems too cheap. When I added a third vehicle to my policy (two drivers) liability only it was another $600/year IIRC.

omarman

Years ago I knew a guy here in Ohio who said he had a surety bond instead of liability coverage on his car. I didn't know the details then or what the current law is now. At the time, I just assumed he had a bad driving record and didn't ask any questions. :shades:

qbrozen

I think carrying liability on a vehicle is asinine. Liability should be attached to the driver, not the vehicle, and the coverage follows the driver. After all, it isn't the vehicle's fault if you crash it!

I agree, but for a different reason, which is I can't drive 2 vehicles at once.

qbrozen

How does classic car insurance work? Does it only cover the vehicle and your normal DD policy covers your liability?

Nope. It is full coverage for that car. I can only assume it is that cheap because they don't pay out for many classic car claims. I guess, as a rule, the drivers are more careful and, of course, drive such a car far less and not in any inclement weather.

And, yes, adding a car to my regular policy is quite expensive, just like for you. I believe more like $800, IIRC.

Mr_Shiftright

In addition to limited mileage and being garaged, you have to have a primary vehicle for everyday driving.

Also you can't use your classic car to transport people or goods on a commercial basis and of course on a race track you're dead meat.

xwesx

I agree, but for a different reason, which is I can't drive 2 vehicles at once.

Well, exactly. That's my primary rationale as well (I just figured it was obvious enough to not warrant mention). If you're a licensed driver, you carry liability insurance. The vehicle you actually drive shouldn't matter.

oldfarmer50

Beautiful car! That is my type of fantasy car--low milage, great condition older vehicle. The fact that it is a luxury car to boot makes it extra sweet.

I hope it keeps running without too much expense.

fintail

Got my camera back from its third warranty repair (first was botched, second created a new problem), looks like it works properly now, snapped some pics of my own project car:



The weird faint bearing noise is back. I want to say generator, but the gauge is registering normal, so maybe it's not a problem. It's running as sweet as ever, and I will never tire of gloating about how easy it starts after being idle for weeks. MFI for the win.

berri

I like it and the color. It stood out because so much today looks so similar. I can't tell, what color is the interior?

fintail

It stands out like a sore thumb almost anywhere...gets attention, probably not a good car to speed in :shades:

The interior is dark blue.

fintail

This is a little nutty

Seller's description makes me want to strangle someone. Bid was all the money in the world (yes, a solid needs work Universal in a bidding war can pull this off), but the seller's claims of real value are insane and should warrant an involuntary committal to an asylum.

texases

I don't know if I've ever seen a more overblown writeup. From dozens of examples I picked these:

"In todays world of SUVs and prevelent, family vans, and mini-suv's, this car certainly set the benchmark for the 21st Century of predominant vehicles in the world today."

"It has been carefully driven and enjoyed, by the second owners family, as part of their revered ,Mercedes"Fintail Collection"."

WOW - gotta be worth $100k easy!

andre1969

"In todays world of SUVs and prevelent, family vans, and mini-suv's, this car certainly set the benchmark for the 21st Century of predominant vehicles in the world today."

One thing that impresses me about the design is that they were able to give it a third-row seat. I don't think any domestic wagon that small offered a third row, until the 1984 Celebrity et al. On the domestic front, you usually had to go with a full-sized wagon, or at least a pre-downsized intermediate, to get a third row.

fintail

The third row in that car is very rare, I do not recall seeing another with that, the split seat is also very rare. The ad says it is a 68, it is likely a 67 registered in 68, still at the very end of Universal production, with such features possibly a one of one, and among the last cars built if not possibly the last one. It's a weird thing.

I like the note in the auction about a "fintail collection" too - I am not aware of any of those existing. There are some who have multiple fintails, but nobody is actively collecting them that I know of.

xwesx

Well, the owner obviously thinks very highly of it. More so, in fact, than anyone else in the world who is currently looking for one. So, the natural conclusion is that this owner should simply keep the vehicle and continue to enjoy it. :P

Mr_Shiftright

The reason the price guides don't list it is because Mercedes never made it. It's a custom body, like a hearse.

In any event, I would imagine that a perfectly restored one would bring about $20,000 in a high profile auction that could attract a global market.

For that price, you're paying for 1/2 a restoration and getting the car for free.

explorerx4

It has an out of date Connecticut plate.
I guess that adds some 'cache' selling a car in Massachusetts?

fintail

I know in Germany, nice highline fintails regularly pass the 20K Euro mark, as would this if it was as nice, but it isn't, and 20K Euro is a long way from six figures. The weak dollar can inflate the price, but we aren't there of course.

I knew of a local Universal that was extremely nice, sold for just under 20K several years ago. Better powertrain choice, but lacking the rare seating.

Restoring most cars is a losing proposition if one only looks at the balance sheet, old MB sedans especially.

fintail

Plates must be worth 50K alone,right? :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

I mean, really, how much is someone going to pay extra for the rare rear-seat option? This is getting borderline silly, don't you think?

I've been snooping for Universal sales, and $20K seems the high water mark, more or less, and the car has much more appeal overseas--as one might expect.

But I guess if a run of the mill 60s American wagon, made in huge numbers, can bring $10K I don't see why a well-made and much rarer German wagon couldn't bring more.

fintail

There's a cult for them, mostly in Belgium and Germany. All you need is two drunken idiots with too much money and not enough sense. I can see a ceiling maybe around 30 - but that's with a bad Euro/$ conversion and the car would have to be perfect.

stickguy

A diesel universal with an AT? Is this possibly the slowest "real" car made in the last 50 years?

jwilliams2

The "six figure value" must include the Willy's gasser.....and the garage.... :confuse:

texases

I missed that it was a auto trans "200D" :surprise:
Really? A non-turbo 2 liter diesel? That changes this from 'interesting, overpriced curiousity' into 'useless' :sick:

fintail

55hp diesel with a relatively heavy body and a clunky weird automatic. 0-60 will be 30 seconds on a good day. Top speed probably won't hit 75.

fintail

They are included in the photos, that must be it!

Willys is probably fiberglass, too.

explorerx4

Did IL consult you before buying this NSX?

Mr_Shiftright

No but I could have told them already that they'll be bored in 2 weeks. :P

texases

So an NSX doesn't have the 'fun factor' of an '85 911? The NSX always seemed kind of 'antiseptic' to me, too refined...

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, no, nothing like a 911. The NSX is *very* competent and in fact remarkably easy to drive at 160 mph (unlike say a Corvette or a Viper where you gotta pay close attention)---and that in a sense was its downfall. There is simply very little character or personality to the car. Having said that, it's very refined, the AC always works, pieces don't come off in your hand but....but...still you have to stare at the word "Acura" on the steering wheel all day.

And it's an awfully quiet engine back there. The 911 is howling like a banshee, the Corvette rumbles like a NASCAR ride, the Ferrari is...well...there is nothing like the sound of a Ferrari and how your whole body vibrates and tingles....

So yeah---the reason that it is so hard to articulate why an NSX doesn't satisfy is that these reasons are so elusive---and yet, so very real to me.

fintail

One complaint I know I have read about it is the lack, or feeling of a lack, of torque.

Mr_Shiftright

That's probably a comment from someone used to a Corvette or Viper, yes. But if you can use a tachometer, you're probably not going to be bothered as much. Torque was about 210 ft lbs so kinda feeble by today's standards. First use of VTEC in a production car, first use of all aluminum chassis body and supsension in a production car, and the engine is definitely inspired by Honda's extensive racing experience.

Still it goes as fast as cars with 2X the horsepower, so that's kind of an eye-opener.

fintail

Some people don't like revving like a sportbike though, I think the same things have been said about the S2000. My boring old E55 is as fast or faster in a straight line anyway, might not be as fun, but if you just want to go fast...

Mr_Shiftright

True but you wouldn't want to drive your E55 at 160 mph. It's set up as a passenger car, not a track car. The NSX can "take it" on the track lap after lap.

fintail

On an autobahn, the passenger car might be a nicer ride...I've done about 140 in a diesel 7-series, and it couldn't have been more drama free. I think that test NSX will visit the track about as often as my E55 :shades:

Don't get me wrong, I generally like the NSX, especially the pre facelift models, as it is a very clean design, and although they aren't depreciating past 25K or so, there's still a lot of bang for the buck in it. But they are kind of different, too.

im_brentwood

That might be the best post on this board that I have seen.

And I have been here since 1999

Mr_Shiftright

your check is in the mail and thank you! :P

omarman

"1967 Z/28 has been treated to a professional restoration that is almost complete. It shows beautifully as is but will need some work to finish it up. It is currently in non-running condition..."

Scenic pics complement the vague seller ad text. Wonder exactly what it is and what needs repair?

ab348

Mysterious. It was obviously running when the pictures were taken. Wonder why it no longer is?

Certainly looks good in the pics.

jrosasmc

I saw this rare and somewhat interesting old BMW on Ebay yesterday:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150674928954+&view- item=

So are these first-generation 5-Series reaching collectible status now or are they still a nice old used car?

texases

That'd be the version I'd get, too bad it's an AT. But I don't know that they're 'collectable', more of an unusual survivor to me.

fintail

Yeah, unusual survivor, maybe one of the best originals left. I think that's a lovely old car, great color and I always liked the center exhaust on those. Price is pretty steep, but where will you find another?

Mr_Shiftright

Just a nice old used car. I don't know anyone "collecting" them or restoring them, but I can see if there were an ultra low miles survivor that one could pick up for the price of a used Hyundai...why not? A '79 is a good pick for an old 5 series, since the earlier 530i was a gas hog and plagued with cylinder head issues, and the later 528e was...well...woof-woof in the performance department. So a 79-81 528i might be a nice old driver. Of course, it's not "fast" by modern standard but would still beat a Prius at least.

texases

"and the later 528e was...well...woof-woof in the performance department"

Yeah, the 'i' would do 0-60 in about 8.2 sec, the 'e' in about 10.3 sec ...WOOF!

Mr_Shiftright

Gee I thought it was more like 12 seconds. The 121 HP isn't much more than a Scion xB. I think the 524d was just as fast.