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Volkswagen Passat 2006+

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Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    Perhaps we should create a 2005 (2006?) Passat vs G35 form. We could all "git it on" in there.

     

    Maybe even throw the TL in there...I hear they can get feisty as well.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Back to the Passat indeed,

     

    this car does not only look good but it can compete with vehicles far more expensive. Do not only love the looks, but also the specs.

     

    I am hoping that soon after the sedan a new Passat TDI wagon 4 motion will be introduced. Love the TDI engine with 170hp and incredible torque. I dont know if this model will exist in N. America?

     

    Your proposal for a G35 vs. Passat site. No thanks I think I had enough for a life time. In fact it was quite senseless.
  • Think peaceful, non-strident thoughts, indeed.

     

    I agree with the concept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I keep reading that there are lots of people who are fans of Japanese cars and German cars and so on.

     

    I keep finding more and more sites on the web for "fans of the brand" -- I found a mopar site an audi site an acura site and heck there is probably a site dedicated to the Ford Falcon and other obscure or perhaps one might erroneously conclude brand that would not merit a fan club.

     

    I have never owned a Japanese car -- I plan to test, eventually, the new RL (and the new Audi A4 3.2 and the Chrysler 300C AWD and/or SRT-8 AWD). I have some time to play with ~ 6 months until my lease or milage limit is reached.

     

    I have been so well treated by Audi of America, the Audi Club and my specific dealer, it will be a hard fought battle to move me off of Audi.

     

    This forum, sometimes in spite of sometimes because of its rancor, has made me willing to look beyond the VW/Audi group.

     

    Nothing in my VAST experience with Audi, BMW and VW (other than the historically high prices of BMW's compared with Audis, for example) since 1978 would make me call them junk or whatever other epithet was thrown around here recently.

     

    Nothing can make me have an experience based opinion about Japanese cars -- two of my associates have Acuras, one has about a million miles on it -- the thing is a 1997 and, frankly it is a piece of junk (all things considered it probably was nice about 800,000 miles ago) -- the other young man (he is in his 30's) has a 2001 or 2002 Acura and he says he likes to visit in from time to time in the shop, it is apparently there so much.

     

    Do these two personal stories mean much -- probably not. My personal experience with Audi and VW (including some old Jettas, Sciroccos, Quantums and Passats) since 1977 has made me think these cars are fantastic. I do not think they are bullet proof. Perhaps the Infinity and Nissan lines are.

     

    Disclosure time: both Honda and Toyota (divisions) are my clients. Both Honda and Toyota executives have ONLY respect for Honda and Toyota, by that I mean the Honda folks respect both Honda and Toyota and ditto the Toyota folks.

     

    I cannot in good faith disclose too much information but the only company these two companies think is worse than the Nissan group is Mitsubishi -- and they have some really funny, not even really off color stories that they tell about the "poor quality" of these two brands, especially Mitsu.

     

    Indeed, these folks only seem to have concern -- from Asia -- about what the Koreans might be up to or at least capable of in the future.

     

    Both H and T seem concerned about erosion of the brand and are wanting to move the perception of their brands both "up market" and to a "younger market." Hmmm, this sounds like: Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Mercedes, Subaru, Volvo and on and on and on.

     

    Currently both H and T, while "knowing" their cars are very reliable, also acknowledge the loss of some youth appeal and an appeal to a performance oriented buyer. Audi and BMW, to name two, do not seem to have this issue at least.

     

    Perhaps the Germans, or the Europeans in general, do not have the reliability thing going for them -- but they certainly do have the "no boring cars" thing down pretty well.

     

    I heard that is why the next Camry will come with an available 275HP engine. I can say this now that it is no longer protected by my NDA.

     

    Love this town-hall.

     

    Love the first amendment. But find it somewhat hard to understand harsh statements from a non-participant in the (whatever) brand.

     

    I really like the new Acura RL -- on paper, for example. Haven't driven it -- I also loved the TL on paper, found driving it was a huge let down due to massive torque steer.

     

    Its reliability may not be at issue, but it certainly was not a driver's car.

     

    The new Passat at $38K fully maxed -- still reads like a bargain.

     

    I've been wrong before.

     

    P.S., while the Phaeton has been a disappointment, it, according to some articles is not THAT far behind where they thought it would be -- these things take time.

     

    Now if they drop it like a hot rock next year, well then our friend (above) will be (future tense) proven correct.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    but some off-topic, hostile posts have been removed. This topic is reserved for the upcoming Passat redesign - plenty of other places to discuss German v other reliability. Thanks!

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  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9501

    "Draught-free Climatronic Ventilation" eh!

     

    This is a Phaeton eater, & hence an A8 eater as well, by riding on the Focus-technology Control Blade rear suspension w/ transversely mounted engine.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Just in time to embarrass the more cramped but similarly priced car w/ the Control Blade rear suspension & transversely mounted engine -- the new Volvo S40/V50.

     

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=52674
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This Passat does look like compelling value versus A8 or Phaeton or other expensive marques.

    If new Passat is priced too high it will turn off potential buyers(despite the fact it may be worth every penny). If they keep the prices the same, the new Passat may cannibalize sales from the new Jetta(in Canada they hiked the prices quite a bit for the Jetta).

     

    Not an easy pricing decision.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    I seriously doubt the new Passat is meant to even remotely compete with the Phaeton or A8.

     

    The Passat is on a different platform than the A8/Phaeton or A6; they utilize the ASF.

     

    The new Jetta 2.0T seems perfectly slotted (power/size), to take over where the previous Passat 2.8 left off. There is always a slight overlap between models of the same manufacturer...which I think is desirable.

     

    The new Passat contains some very compelling features and power to match. My only misgivings would be 280hp (I'm very interested in seeing torque graphs) on the Golf platform, but from what I read the new platform is exceptional.

     

    I potentially see loaded 3.6 Passat's cannibalizing 3.2 A6's, but I could guarantee that you would be giving up a higher level of luxury, refinement, and prestige.

     

    The loaded Passat, in the near luxury category, is a competitive segment. After all, for 38K you can buy a lot of car (insert what you think that means here) from other manufactures.

     

    I paid less than that (38k), negotiated price, for my 99.5 A6...but with the new Passat stating it is more rigid than the previous model, which was based on the A6 platform, perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis).

     

    On paper the Passat looks like it would the trump others, but so did the Phaeton (never driven one...maybe it does.).
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I think VW is in for some rough times in NA. Rumor is it's losing a cool billion in USA alone this year, fact is BMW's going to be the top European seller this year and for the foreseeable future, all because of VW's avoidable missteps.

     

    To make money, VW will have to sell more than 300K. To do that, Passat will have to fight it out in the meat segment of the market with Camry/Accord/Altima, three huge volume models. But what does VW do? It pulls Phaeton II and brings out a Passat to compete with A6, not A4! I'm sure it's a great car. But what will it do to VW volume, and does A4/A6 need another competitor from within the family.

     

    VW's going to fall behind Acura in volume in a really short time.
  • Any 38K Passat is a wishful thinking. Remember the "high selling" $39K W8 that VW thought would rule the class ended being discounted 6-7K just to move it off the lot.

     

    Anything over $30K the Passat will get its clock cleaned in sales by many other near luxury brands. The Acura TL being being a perfect example and it is the segment sales leader selling like hot cakes at $33-36K. VW of late has miscalculated big time with Phaeton blunder. You build market by volume and high quality not be bringing out a white elephant.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    The Passat doesn't seem to be affected by the horror stories that plague the Golf and the Jetta. In my circles it gets much more respect than those two and if it's priced to compete against the Camry and Accord it'll do well. If it prices against the Japanese midsized entry-lux vehicles, I think too many people will choose an ES300, TL, or G35. The Passat might be competitive in magazines against those cars, but it needs to attract families looking for a midsized car, who'll tend to prefer a Lexus, Acura, or Infinity over a Volkswagen. (And a 3-series, C-class, or A4 would be too small for them, but a 5-, E-, or A6 too expensive.)

     

    VW put its compacts in a niche between economy compacts and "premium" compacts, but there's no such niche in the midsized market.

     

    Other than that, the car looks great (I assume its long nose it borne out of the European pedestrian safety regulations), the interior looks great, and it sounds like VW will give a lot of functions to the electronic emergency brake. How have previous Passats been on torque steer?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    I personally couldn't care less if VW lost one billion or two, or BMW takes the sales lead. As long as the company remains solvent to cover any warranty claims; I'm happy.

     

    All theoretical of course (not being able to drive it)...but if I were about to put down 35K on a new car, I'd take the Passat 3.6 over the TL any day. If they want to discount it 6-7K then it's just that much more attractive.

     

    Not having numbers in front of me, I believe that the Jetta is VW's high selling model. It looks like it will compete favorably against the import masses (Honda, Toyota, Nissan).

     

    Overall...I shop for the "best" auto for the price and don't concern myself with the company's accounting.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    heh...funny you should mention ES300...a few years ago my wife and I were test driving many different vehicles.

     

    We both felt the Jetta (yes) was a much better car than the ES300; just did not impress.

     

    Torque steer? That could be an issue on the non-AWD version.
  • . . .some folks are NOT buying VW's claim that the Phaeton was expected to "take time."

     

    It may be a failure, and perhaps VW should have made a separate division like Acura and Lexus did when they wanted to take Honda and Toyota upscale.

     

    Before any of the current apparent sales issues with the Pheaton ever came to be known, I remember reading that the Phaeton concept was expected to take time, VW's management had set board expectations thusly.

     

    From all I can tell in "the Press" the Phaeton is (broken record) a lot of car for the money. US dealers apparently don't need gravity they suck so much, to read some of the tales told here and elsewhere.

     

    My barber, there's a good source, eh?, has a new VW Beetle, 10,000 miles on it, loves it, has been in ONE TIME for service -- he still thinks it is a good deal and a great car. He had Japanese (Mazda or Honda I think) before that.

     

    I only know, personally, two dealers in greater Cincinnati -- they seem competent. I dunno about the other dealers, maybe they're all duds.

     

    The Passat with all the stuff outlined with 280 hp and AWD with a 6spd DSG or tip -- if it tops out, rather than starts at $38K, one more time, I'll say bargain.

     

    The W8, from what I can tell suffered from lack of visual cues of its "specialness" and, also, had virtually NO advertising to differentiate it.

     

    If I saw an apparently identical Passat for +$10K, I might be somewhat reluctant -- espeically if the salesperson said "W8" to me -- and I didn't know any better.

     

    But for $33 or $34K the W8's should have flown off the dealer's lots -- of course the largest dealer I know, never had any more than 2 at a time on the lot and only EVER had ONE sport model -- I wanted to drive it, but it sold FAST!

     

    Wonder if anyone was keeping any benchmarks or if they see how well a car sells even with benign neglect.

     

    I hope VW is profitable -- I want my car vendor to be thus. Thinking from a Macro Economic perspective.

     

    Asta La Pizza and Spumoni for all!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    " seriously doubt the new Passat is meant to even remotely compete with the Phaeton or A8.

     

    )

     

    I did not mean compete, but I meant compelling value compared to the others. It is true that I should not have made this comparison since the Passat and Phaeton are in a different league altogeter. I believe VW is all about--providing compelling value for high quality, not charging premium prices for high quality(leave that to Audi). So if VW provides value, what's the story with the Phaeton. The President of Audi USA lost his job because he said the truth(it was idiotic introduce the Phaeton in the first place) h

     

    If a Passat starts selling close to the prices of A6s or even A4s, then the Passat is toast. I love this new Passat based on the specs and the photos, but I hope I love the price too(then I am a potenital buyer).

     

    Otherwise I will replace my 99 BMW 323 with a new 06 3 series.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    "and perhaps VW should have made a separate division like Acura"

     

    In fact Honda introduced the Acura to imitate VW's Audi division in the mid to late 80's.

     

    Now VW is going to imitate Honda's Acura division by introducing a new division seperate from Audi. Does that not sound a bit redundant!

     

    The whole point is the Phaeton disaster should be etched in VW managements brains when they price the new Passat. VW is not a premium price marque because public perception views it as a mainstream model. Charging hefty prices for a Passat will cause VW to lose it mainstream buyers and the many dealers who service these mainstream buyers
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "I seriously doubt the new Passat is meant to even remotely compete with the Phaeton or A8."

     

    You're right, only cars with similar price like the Caddilac Allante can compete with the Mercedes SL. But who was GM trying to fool?

     

    "...perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis)."

     

    & the new A6 chassis as well! Long heavy nose is a wrong design that should no longer exist in the 21th century. Audi will amend that but only in the future. VW is doing it now. So if the new "Focus-ized" Passat is superior to the A6, then it shouldn't be far off from the A8/Phaeton. The current Passat w/ extended wheelbase is already available in China & as the Skoda Superb in Europe. So can the next Passat.

     

    Do people still remember the Legend/RL after the introduction of the TL? Who really needs a car that big? Does it provide limo-like comfort like a Rolls or the S-Class? The A8 rides too hard, & the Phaeton runs out suspension travel on deep bumps.

     

    VW can always import the lower-price Skoda Superb to compete w/ the Camry/Accord. :-)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    "VW can always import the lower-price Skoda Superb to compete w/ the Camry/Accord. :-) "

     

    VW is having problems in Europe because Skodas cannibalizes the sales from Passat.

     

    VW is a large multinational company that has the potential to produce the new Passat at competitive prices. They have a plant in Mexico which can be expanded to produce less costly Passats. VW is thinking of building a plant in USA(does anybody remember the pickup version of the VW Rabbit manufactured in USA). VW has plants in China . VW has plants in other parts of the world where currencies are not that strong. With all these plants VW does not have to rely on Germany to manufacture a costly Passat(reflecting the strong Euro and hefty wages earned in Germany ).

     

    It would be interesting to see the reliability of VWs manufactured in China. In fact it may be scary!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    Superb...what is the New Octavia based on?
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