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Volkswagen Passat 2006+

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Comments

  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    I expect this new Passat to be a bit more expensive than the current model, which is ALREADY expensive compared to the similarly equipped Altima, Accord and Camry...especially the Accord and Camry models.

     

    Altimas are overpriced in V6 with most options as well.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    is also more expensive than the roomier Accord. & which Honda product offers something comparable to the new Passat w/ transversely mounted V6 & AWD?
  • Many modern cars have transversely mounted engines, in order to shorten front overhangs, and to reduce front weight bias in FWD vehicles.

     

    Heck, my 1995 Dodge Avenger has a transversely mounted V6...and it was built with the option of AWD (but never acted upon by Chrysler - some have done conversions using 3000gt VR4/stealth parts - check Avenger owners groups).

     

    The most notable exception to engine placement is Subaru...they need to have their engines mounted ahead of the front axle due to the boxer engine design.

     

    Traverse mounted engines are now common on just about all imports. And AWD was once used to distinguish Subaru's from other imports, but is now being thrown on cars to "improve handling", which is not always true, or to reduce torque steer (which plagues side mounted engines).

     

    The Acura (Honda) RL has 300 HP and AWD standard, but $45K. On the other end of the spectrum, the Ford 500 has the V6 and AWD at about $24-28K...and the 3.5 250+ will be available in one year.

     

    My point? A big deal was made about the Passat going to a side mounted engine style earlier this year - because everyone was hoping the front overhang would be shortened greater, yielding a better handling Passat (BMW was once famous for short overhangs). Unfortunately, due to new Euro pedestrian safety standards, the overhang has been made LONGER. This negates the need to even have a side mounted engine! Now that this feature is no longer a "benefit", all that's left is AWD, which has become the auto industry's new gimmick to sell cars. Most AWD systems are simply FWD with additional RWD when needed. Some systems do not even operate above a certain speed limit, making it entirely FWD. This shows that the AWD designers themselves think that FWD is preferred at moderate to higher speeds.

     

    OK, now I'm getting off my soap box. I still have to say, I'll be purchasing a TDI Passat in 1-2 years (either a b6 or pre-owned b5.5), as long as they package the options in a smart way.
  • Although what I am about to write is changing, the "spirit" of this remains true:

     

    Audis and VW's have the best AWD systems. They have over 20 years of experience and have not "recently" added AWD as a marketing ploy or "talking point."

     

    Indeed, this family of cars (the VW group, after all) has produced and marketed AWD way back when there were very few "cars" with AWD -- mainly trucks, in fact.

     

    And, the VW group's AWD cars have been winners in a variety of races -- even banned from some due to the "unfair" performance advantage their AWD equipped cars were said to have over the competition. True Audi and VW have, from time to time, marketed the advantages of all wheels being driven under low coefficient of friction conditions/circumstances; but, largely they present AWD as providing (in no particular order) improved control, performance, fun and safety.

     

    This new Passat with the high zoot upgrades, 280HP and AWD will also, undoubtedly, tout its AWD as making the case for the Passat to be considered moving closer "upscale" to the Premium class.

     

    Much of what has been said about the apparently recent fad of adding AWD to "cars" is accurate. However, the VW group (with the influence of Dr. Piech, in large measure) always presented AWD as a performance differentiator first and a low traction aid second.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Partially true.

     

    Remember the BMW you reference is an inline 6...so it's longer than a V6; so they accomplished the short overhand with a "long" engine.

     

    "This negates the need to even have a side mounted engine!"

     

    The Volvo XC90 just introduced a transverse V8 to comply with their own safety standards.

     

    I think the Euro pedestrian safety standard just specifies that the hood of the car has to be a certain number of inches above the engine; therefore creating a “cushion” of space (or I could be making this up...)
  • Yes, VW/Audi/Subaru have all had AWD systems in place for a while. It's the other auto makers who are jumping on the AWD bandwagon that comes to mind when reading my above post.

     

    Volvo, Audi/VW and Subaru all "get it" when when it comes to AWD. They offer AWD in vehicles as an option, for those who need it. Makers like Dodge and Ford are just using it as a gimmick (Do you REALLY need a Hemi? Do you really need an AWD Magnum, especially in 50% of the US that doesn't have the bad climate?). Most people get a false sense of security from AWD. AWD does not equal a quality ESP/traction control system. If you can have both, so much the better. If you can only choose one, go with the ESP. Even AWD will get to the point where wheels slip, even on the best system. People are making the same false assumptions regarding AWD in terms of safety as they did with SUV's. I don't doubt their effectiveness, just the danger that comes with adding a feature which can be both a benefit and a danger, and the uninformed public. Acura is getting dangerously close to this with the new RL, calling it's AWD system the Super Handling AWD (SH-AWD). The best handling system in a car is a competent driver.

     

    As an owner of a true 4WD vehicle, I feel AWD should be treated as an airbag is...you shouldn't even notice it's there (nor would you want to be in a situation that called for it). If you are using it in any situation other than ice/snow, you are beginning to push the car beyond it's limit. You wouldn't want to get into your new Passat and want to try out the air bags by aiming for the nearest tree. Hopefully I have worded this thought correctly.

     

    The BMW reference I made was a counterpoint to the side mounted engine. The BMW has an inline arrangement, but with RWD, allowing weight to be distributed evenly front to back. FWD vehicles try to limit forward bias by mounting engines sideways. This is why BMW has been know to be (one of) the best handling cars.

     

    Lastly, the ped safety rules for europe have several features, like recessed windshield wipers, higher hoods, etc. Look for the Mini Cooper to sport a new nose, wipers and hood soon.
  • bhottlebhottle Posts: 16
    We have an 04 Passat wagon with the W8 and the 6 speed manual transmission. It drives like a dream. Why did VW not push it more in its ads? We have had our wagon for one year now, and it has had absolutely no problems. It goes like hell when I get on the freeway, but it gets 24 mpg on trips if I keep the speed to 75. Will we see a future edition? By the looks of this new model, VW has a sense of direction, but California freeways are made for a W8, not just a V6.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    No W8. It's now a transverse layout.

     

    The 3.6L V6 is rated at 280hp.
  • The W8 is dead, but the high output V6 appears to be no slouch.

     

    The number of W8 ads = 2. And, as I recall they were run twice each and then pulled.

     

    Now, that's (hopefully) not really true -- but VW NOT running the W8 ads and Audi not promting the allroad -- well, "what were they thinking?"

     

    Frankly, I think the new Passat is a huge step in the right direction.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    "We have had our wagon for one year now, and it has had absolutely no problems."

     

    That is good to hear! Passats are among the most reliable offerings from VW. If the reliability stats improve for the 04/05 Passat models I may consider the new and improved Passat AWD TDI Wagon with a manual tranny--if such a vehicle will exist?

     

    My decision for a car swings like a pendulum. One day I yearn to buy the new BMW e90(3series) xdrive Touring and next day I yearn to drive the new Passat wagon.

     

    The advantage of the Passat is that it has a 3.6l and TDI offering vs. bmw's sole 2.5L on its 3 series Touring.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    I have had my Passat GLS 1.8t since June of 2004 and in almost 8,000 miles of driving my car has been nearly perfect. After my initial dash rattle was fixed, I have been trying to hear another rattle ANYWHERE in my car and I have found nothing!!!! I am the kind of person that will hear a strange noise or rattle and I tend to obsess about it......just ask my wife.

     

    I am happy to say this Passat is the BEST car I have ever owned. It is quick, comfortable, attractive and so far, reliable. If my current experience continues, I will likely look into a new Passat when my current lease expires.

     

    I am in the process of installing a Sirius Satellite unit in my car, so I hope this will only improve my Passat ownership experience. Anyone ever listened to or currently own a satellite radio?
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    The 15-degree W8 is a failure design being too heavy. VW engineers admitted that the V8 should work better.

     

    See how the C&D comparison complained about the dynamics of the W8 Passat.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "My point? A big deal was made about the Passat going to a side mounted engine style earlier this year - because everyone was hoping the front overhang would be shortened greater, yielding a better handling Passat (BMW was once famous for short overhangs). Unfortunately, due to new Euro pedestrian safety standards, the overhang has been made LONGER. This negates the need to even have a side mounted engine! Now that this feature is no longer a "benefit", all that's left is AWD, which has become the auto industry's new gimmick to sell cars."

     

    The new Euro pedestrian safety standards requires additional cushion space between the engine & the outer body. That makes the shorter-front-overhang side-way engine layout even more necessary!

     

    So while the front overhang may need to be lengthened for the pedestrians, the engine weight does not!

     

    BMW, & especially the RX-8, can afford to keep the engine-weight behind the front axle for better handling(& thus, ride compromise) because they don't come in FWD layout, & therefore, don't need to weight the front wheels down for acceleration traction.

     

    So it's actually stupid to keep the front-overhang weight in an AWD car. You might as well upgrade to AWD from a RWD platform.
  • cbanccbanc Posts: 10
    Does anybody know where the new 3.6L V6 in the 2006 Passat will be made ? According to Motor Trend it is to be used only in the North American market. I also wonder if it could even come close to the mileage from the 3.5L V6 in the 2005 Toyota Avalon which is said to get 22 mpg in the city and 31 on the highway.
  • Has less to do with where an engine is made than how it is designed. Won't the new Toyota engine be assembled in the US? But it was designed in Japan.

     

    Where an engine is made has more to do with quality of assembly, since the parts will come from all over the world.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Haven't seen any engine specs yet.

     

    The Direct Injections usually have better highway mpg, but I wouldn't expect it to get 31; who knows it may with the 6spd.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,661
    lines and design of the Passat, but I have never owned a German car...4 Hondas, no German...I have read all the posts in this thread from #1, good comments from all, especially markcincinnati who probably knows more about Audi than the folks who design and build them...one other point about all the cars trying to go upscale with more options standard...in terms of cost, most options cost the manufacturer very little to add on, but they often charge an arm/leg for that option...for example, they may only make, say, 20% markup on a base model, but the markup on options may be 50% or more... that is why, at the end-of-model-year clearance sales, a loaded model can often be bought for just a little more than a stripped (oops, base) model because the options actually cost the manufacturer so little...

     

    After reading the posts, does anyone have some physical specs, or a good guess...wheelbase, overall length, height, width, etc...since the Passat is getting "larger", I am trying to come up with a comparison for my imagination...I sold my Mercury Sable because I wanted a larger car with more metal to protect me from the trucks and SUVs out there trying to kill me, so I bought a Crown Victoria LX Sport...hardly a German sports car, but I feel some sense of protection...how will the Passat in 2006 measure up???...the size of a Sable? Crown Vic? Fiesta? anything I can use for a reference size???...how well do the 2004 and 2005 Passats perform in crash testing???...I also like 31 mpg, but I won't buy a Honda Civic because I feel like there is tissue paper between me and all the other tanks on the road...maybe I am paranoid, but when I bought my tiny Prelude in 1988, trucks were only owned by carpenters and rednecks, and SUVs really did not exist except for the Ford Bronco (owned by hunters) and the Chevy Suburban (carpenters and craftsmen, again)...by year 2000, 12 years later, the Prelude was doing fine with 180K miles, 30 mpg, but I felt like a Munchkin on the highway, surrounded by a million vehicles, every one of them towering over me in size, and it was time for a larger vehicle, sacrificing great mpg for better protection...how big is the Passat and how well does it hold up in crashes...do the occupants survive, or will it be just a little larger than the Prelude???

    Bob
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    The new Passat is…

     

    Passat

    Length 187.7”

    Width 71.7”

    Wheelbase 107”

     

    CrownVic

    Length 212”

    Width 77.3”

    Wheelbase 114”

     

    For some comparison/perspective

     

    Honda Odyssey Minivan

    Length 201”

    Width 77.1”

    Wheelbase 118.1”

     

    So the Crown Vic is almost a foot longer than a new Honda Odyssey minivan.

     

    The previous generation Passat has received the “Best Pick” award for crash tests and I expect the new one would be as good or better.

     

    I personally would feel safer in a head-on collision with a Suburban driving a Passat than a Crown Vic, although either situation doesn’t have a positive outcome.

     

    I would also feel safer in a “little” BMW 3 series than a Crown Vic.

     

    Point being...it is difficult to overcome the laws of physics and going head to head with a heavier vehicle, though it can be done, or at least made somewhat more equal, if an auto is designed properly (intelligently).
  • cbanccbanc Posts: 10
    I love the front end of the new Passat, like the side view, but I am not so sure about the rear view. There are many cars with similar light configurations. Any thoughts ?

    In reply to marsha7, safety is not only measured by the mass of your vehicle, but by the ability to avoid accidents. I was reading in Car and Driver recently that vehicle stability control has been shown to reduce car accident fatalities. I think it would be safe to say that the Passat is more maneuverable than a Crown Victoria.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    I also find the rear of autos to be the most difficult to design "unique".

     

    I've been disappointed by a few new auto rear ends.

    BMW 3 series

    M45

    and TWICE today I was trapped behind an Aztek...what a monstrosity of automotive design.

     

    I like the looks, but am not ecstatic about it (referring back to the Passat, not the Aztek :) ).

     

    image
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