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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans



  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,980
    "Pax" means "peace" in Latin, as in peace of mind if you have a flat, I guess. (Washington Post).

    Steve, Host
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Do you think that it's likely that Honda will get rid of requiring PAX on the touring in the near future (mid-year change, or for '06)?"

    It is possible that Michelin has a contract with Honda which would prevent them from opting out of using the PAX system for a few years. Michelin would have been smart to ensure that Honda couldn't 'back out' of using their new tire system after only 1 model year.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Has anyone heard a rationale from Honda as to why the Canadian Touring models are not equipped with PAX?

    The only thought that comes to my mind is that, aside from certain parts of Ontario and Quebec, there may be too few places too far apart to reliably service them.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Perhaps it is because Michelin does not make a snow tire for the PAX system. And since the PAX system is proprietary (meaning nobody elses snow tires will fit), that would be a fairly heavy penalty for Canadian drivers.
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    Is it possible to buy a car in Canada if you live in the States? I guess one issue would be the odometer would be metric . I would definitely consider the Touring model if PAX weren't standard. I think we will probably go with Sienna instead.
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    There are plenty of us Americans who live in the snow belt as well! I think you are right though, that is the primary reason.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,980
    You can buy a van in Canada, but Honda USA won't honour the warranty (absent special circumstances).

    Steve, Host
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    Excellent and important point!
  • ckirkckirk Posts: 17
    I also was curious and googled this at ct/feature36
    The PAX system isn't just a tire; it's a tire/wheel package that consists of four components: a tire, a wheel, an inner support ring, and a tire-inflation monitor. If the PAX-system tire loses air pressure--whether due to a small puncture or a huge hole in the sidewall--it doesn't go "flat"; it only drops about halfway down. At that point, the underside of the tread rests on an inner support ring that runs around the circumference of the wheel.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 839
    If potential 'Touring' buyers are already contemplating the feasibility of purchasing a Canadian model just to avoid PAX, then my prediction that sales will suffer are vindicated. Honda, are you paying attention? You've boxed yourself into a corner. Buyers of the Touring model are doing so despite PAX--not because of it--so they can have adjustable pedals and a power lift gate.

    If Honda offered optional 18" wheels and power lift gate on EX-L's, Touring sales would dry up.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Well, I can't speak for anyone else but, yes, I see the PAX system as a negative and the premium charged for the Touring makes it a poor value relative to the EX or EX-L.

    If its MSRP was, say, $2000 more than an EX-L and it had regular tires, the price would be reasonable for the additional equipment.
  • I bought my Ody touring today. Drove it home. All in all okay. But then I read the manual. My plan is to get away from PAX as quickly as possible by buying new EX Wheels, and a donut spare. As it turns out, you CANNOT do this on the touring model. It is because of the Tire Pressure Monitoring System. As soon as you remove the PAX wheels, the TPMS reports a malfunction in the system. When this occurs, you get a mesage on the dash, and the VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) locks on. You cannot shut it off, even by pressing the VSA button.

    The trouble is that VSA must be shut off to use a donut spare tire (according to the owners manual) due to the difference in diameter of the spare compared to the other wheels.

    Bottom line: You cannot get away from PAX wheels once you own a Touring model. I am locked in now. The damn dealer told me it would be no problemo to switch wheels if I wanted. But the owners manual is clear: If you have PAX, you gotta stick with PAX or your warranty is DEAD.

    The manual also states that you cannot install snow tires on the Touring Ody either. What a crock.

    So, here's to PAX. I have a vested interest now. Everyone go out and buy lots of PAX equipped Odysseys. I need this technology to spread like wildfire. But there is zero chance of that happening. This will be a doomed experiment.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,980
    If you opt to carry a high pressure space saver tire around as a spare, you may want to keep it away from the fuel tank:

    Zero-Pressure Spare Tires Offer More Safety (Yahoo)

    Steve, Host
  • I've changed my pessimism about the PAX system after reading an article "Running Flat, Low and Flat Out" in the January 2005 issue of ROAD AND TRACK (pages 138-142).
          I am disabled and run-flat tires are very high on my list of features I want in my next minivan (I have a 99 Odyssey now). My choices have been narrowed down to the Odyssey Touring or the Sienna Limited (with AWD to get the run-flat tires). I am now convinced that the PAX system is the only way to go. Better treadwear, lower rolling resistance, more flexible sidewalls, higher temperature rating, more accurate pressure sensing, and better handling than Sienna system.
         I believe Honda/Michelin has a winner here!
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,980
    Apologies for the inability to post for the last day. Seems we had a flat and had to go all the way to New Jersey to find a spare :-)


    Steve, Host
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 839
    It's becoming a semi-regular occurrence.
  • don6don6 Posts: 1
    With all of the disadvantages discussed about PAX, I am amazed there doesn't seem to be any mention of the EXTREMELY harsh ride. This is particularly felt in the rear seat with anything less than perfect pavement. I am very sorry to be saddled with the PAX system and doubt that I will be a long term owner of a touring model. My Ford pickup is much more comfortable on the same roads. What a shame in a vehicle that cost more than a Cadillac.
  • Well mark at least one loss to Honda due to PAX ONLY tires, ME! I had a $1500 deposit on Honda Odyssey Touring with RES and NAV. When I found out about the great limitations of cost, supply, and chance of getting stuck without replacements, I cancelled my deal!


    Today I bought a Toyota Sienna XLE Limited which actually has the same equipment and some more things the Honda did not. But has "REAL" tires and a spare! Same exact price as dealer matched Honda deal.


    I hope Honda is listening. I was all set with the Odyssey and cancelled ONLY due to having NO choice of tires. As much as I thing PAX technology may be great, having limited replacements and NO repairs ridiculous on a vehicle made for travel. Now when I need tires on the Toyota Sienna I will have choices and NOT pay premium of what ever Honda and Michelelin feels like charging.


    I think it is terrible how many Honda buyers have no idea about PAX, as Honda is hiding these limitations from consumers. Nothing in brochures, nothing on their web site, nothing on invoice or car. I found out in these forums. Thank you Edmunds!


    Stephen A
  • joeb24joeb24 Posts: 111
    Well, I bit-the-bullet and bought a runflat (Bridgestone B380 run flat) for my 2005 Sienna XLE AWD. Found a Bridgestone/Firestone dealer who had 5. No one else, including TireRack had these in stock in the northern VA area; they are on back order until mid January. It was over $200. I will be getting an original alloy wheel this week to mount the tire on, also expensive. Since I will have the third row seat down most of the time, I will carry this spare with me most of the time. I will also rotate it in when I rotate tires to get more mileage out of these tires (which, I understand do not give great mileage). This solution is expensive, but I will have piece of mind when traveling. Maybe there will be more options for the XLE AWD when these tires wear out?
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,980
    Carrying the spare around with you inside the passenger cabin brings up another issue. Loose stuff in the cabin goes flying in a panic stop, and a heavy tire could really do some damage.


    Steve, Host
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