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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • ody681ody681 Posts: 2
    A couple of comments on TPMS swapping to standard wheels. The previous comments about sensor fitment are correct, not all wheels are designed for them. Also some sensor stems have a special sealing nut that must be replaced when the sensor is removed & re-installed. I think this is true for the Odyssey item. There are specific torque specs for most sensors. All this needs to be dome properly to make sure there are no leaks.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    I do not (yet) own a Touring model Odyssey. I need to buy a family crusier in the next couple of months and have been doing my research. I love most things about it over the EX-L, but the tyranny of pax is a big question mark. Just want to know all of my options. The liability issue upon resale is my only concern about changing out the wheels.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    The tire shop who quoted me $1100-$1200 to change pax tires also said the tires were about $200 each. I assume that means they were going to charge me roughly $100 per tire for the pax mounting process.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    Thank you for that reply gene00. The Touring is an unbelievable bargain for what you get. I paid $33,947(incl. destination)but, w/o tax,title and licensing for the full RES and NAVI. This van has every single option you can think of that would be found on a "luxury" car. Memory seats,back-up camera,parking assist,heated seats,pedal adjust,programable wipers,auto day/night mirror,power side doors, power tailgate,fogs,etc,etc.

    I paid $31,000 for a 1998 Toyota SIenna XLE when it was new!! That's 8 years ago and that Sienna had leather and that was about it!

    Perhaps the easiset solution would be if Honda offered a non-Pax tire set up for the Touring. This would alleviate most of this discussion and then you could arrange to purchase a Touring with PAX or without PAX. Unfortunately, that option does not exist.

    The replacement cost is an issue, however, I look at the overall value and I will accept the fact that it may be more expensive to replace tires on this model Odyssey. I don't, however subscribe to the theory that the PAX system will leave you high and dry on vacation or whatever as I think that the odds of that happening are remote. It may have happened, but with the advancement of the PAX program I doubt it would be a common occurance. I cannot remember my last flat tire...

    The Touring is just too good of a vehicle with so many great options not available on the EX-L that I would not hesitate to buy another one again, PAX and all! Good luck in your decision, these are great highway cruisers.
  • You do not have to buy new wheels to replace a PAX tire. The Rubber costs about $200 The dealer gets charged a core charge of $400 for the wheel. They get that money refunded when they return your assembly. About $225-$250 per corner. Not bad for the piece of mind of a run flat tire.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    Like others have mentioned, I also am considering the Touring model over the EX-L but am a bit worried about PAX Michellin Tire system. Can small nail punctures be plugged or do you need a whole new tire?. It's really to bad Honda doesn't offer a 19" sport tire package on the EX-L.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "It's really to bad Honda doesn't offer a 19" sport tire package on the EX-L."

    Yeah, no kidding. I was really getting irritated at the last auto-x I entered with my wife's EX-L. The van was SERIOUSLY under-tired and was practically screaming for a nice set of 19" gumballs....

    :confuse: :confuse:
  • A PAX tire cannot be plugged. You must remove it from the rim and patch it from the inside. Not a difficult task if you have a PAX tire capable tire changing machine. Until a more extensive repair network is in place. Michelin/Honda will replace the tire and wheel with a new one in exchange for your damaged one. The PAX capable Micheline/Honda network is expanding rapidly.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Tim---I sure hope you are correct about the "rapidly" part.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    Can you say where you've seen the pax network expanding? No new pax-capable tire shops in the SF Bay Area in the last year.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    That is an excellent deal you got on your touring. Looks to be $1,546 below dealer invoice. $500 dealer cash + $1163 holdback = $1663, looks like the dealer cleared a cool $117 on your purchase. Can you relate how & where you got your deal (probably on the prices paid forum)? I might be getting ready to deal (pax issues aside) on a 2006 seeing that the changes for 2007 are minimal.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    I live in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. I saw an ad 3 months ago from Grand Honda in Elmhurst, however I didn't want to venture that far so I literally picked up the phone called O'Hare Honda in Des Plaines and asked if they would honor that price and if they had a Silver/Grey leather in stock. They called me back 1 hour later said they had one in stock and would honor the $33,947.00(includes the $550 dest.) I picked it up and the rest is history. They are good people and I would highly recommend to anyone.

    I borrowed the van yesterday to take 5 guests around the city to tour some restaurants. They were blown away with the luxury and ride of the Touring. One jumped in the back and immediately spied the AC outlet and plugged her Blackberry in there! I don't work for Honda, but I gotta tell you this Touring is one heck of a ride.

    Staying on topic with PAX, the PAX system comes with a "drive-in" 2 year warranty. If you get a nail or have a more serious issue with the tire you simply drive it in and get a new tire/wheel. Once again, I can deal with the pricier run-flat replacement for the peace-of-mind and the fact that this "luxury" vehicle was such a bargain to begin with. Living in a large metro area with PAX options probably helps as well.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    shows the tire pressure monitor & how the tire attaches to the outside of the wheel

    http://www.prnewswire.com/mnr/multivu/20983/images/20983-pax.jpg
  • There is a Michelin certified PAX repair center in Newark, Ca. I think this would qualify as the "Bay Area" Although I think Honda/Michelin were a little behind the 8 ball launching a technology without a well developed infrastructure to support it. They did have a good support strategy by making sure complete assemblies were available. It got a little twisted when dealers started charging people $600 for tire replacements because they charged the customer for the core charge and did not refund it back to them when they should have. I think it was because they misunderstood and not because they were intent on ripping off a customer. I am sure it is in Michelin's and Honda's best interest to see this technology advances. Nissan is now offering it as an option on the Quest and the Rolls Royce has it as standard equipment as does the Acura RL.
  • Dealers have been intent on ripping off their customers for years. Nothing has changed. I once worked at a dealer that charged $40 for new wiper blades. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Honda to fix their "misunderstanding".
  • nojonesnojones Posts: 13
    I bought a 2005 odyssey Touring. My front two tires with PAX are essentially bald on the outer few inches of the tire with 14k miles.

    I took it to Honda and they called Michelin. Michelin said that as a GOODWILL gesture they will replace one of them and I can replace the other one at a cost of $700 PER tire. You heard that correctly $700 per tire.

    We LOVE the odyssey, but I am really upset about this issue. Note that Toyota and Dunlop (maker of the Sienna's run-flats ) already have a class action lawsuit over this same issue.

    I am currently on hold with Michelin asking them where I can get just the tire. They are going to find out and call me back.

    So, you might want to think about this when buying the touring model. The Honda dealer has a meeting with Michelin on Thursday and I am going to request that I stop by and have the rep look at the tires.
  • As I said in a previous post. The mold that is used for the PAX tire does not make the tread pattern very deep on the outside edges. This does not affect the reliability or the grip of the tire. The tire is not worn out unless the rest of the tread is worn. I am supprised that Mechelin did not tell you this. They have issued a bulletin for their dealers telling them about this mis-construed early wear. The PAX tire does not wear any faster than any other tire with the same wear rating. The rubber for a PAX odessey is about $200 per corner. I don't think you are getting the a straight story from the dealership about the cost of the tire/wheel assembly and what your part of the cost should be or they are confused about how the Honda/Michelin service strategy works.
  • actualsizeactualsize Posts: 120
    These prices seem quite odd. I posed as an Odyssey owner and called my local Honda dealer to get a price quote on replacement PAX tires. I didn't say anything other than they were worn out and I needed new ones.

    I was told $200 per tire. When I asked about mounting and balancing costs, they explained that those charges didn't apply, since they would be swapping out entire wheel and tire assemblies due to the dealer's lack of PAX mounting equipment. When I asked how long I would have to wait, I was told "about 1 week."

    So if someone is telling you $700 per tire, you need to call another dealer - if you can. This sounds like opportunism to me. Check Michelin's PAX web page to find alternate dealer listings.

    Getting an unmounted tire by itself will only work if you know where you can find a Michelin tire dealer with PAX-compatible tire mounting equipment. You cannot just walk in anywhere with that tire and have it mounted.

    Mileage aside, as no clear consensus exists on that front, my chief beef with PAX tires echos your experience: those who have bought a car equipped with them are faced with a monopoly situation when they need replacements. Honda says you can't use other rims and tires, lest you void your warranty. No other tires but Michelin PAX will fit on the metric rims with non-standard beads. And you can't go anywhere but authorized Michelin dealers for new tire mounting, balancing, and flat repair.
  • gene00gene00 Posts: 113
    So Michelin intentionally designed the PAX tire to have the outside edges go bald. I don't see how losing tread on the outside edges of the tire wouldn't affect the characteristics of the tire. If not, why have tread at all? Sounds like Michelin is dancing as fast as they can, trying to keep the lucrative PAX infrastrucure afloat.
  • I am not talking about the tread, It is those fine little scarf lines that are molded into the tire on the outside of the first tread. They are cosmetic. If you check the first tread you will find plenty of tread life. It is a characteristic of this tire. Perhaps because of the profile or the width or the challenge of adapting a new compound or tire technology with traditional design. All I know is that Michelin issued a bulletin to their dealers telling them to check the tread wear and not the scarf wear. I doubt very much if this technology has been at all lucrative for them. In fact I venture to say it has cost them millions with no return. Can you imagine the r&d costs, the tooling costs, etc. Along with the fact that they are providing wheel and tire assemblies, over night shipping, lodging reimbursement if required, free road hazard replacement, tire and wheel for replacements. They don't reuse those wheels as far as I can see. Every tire comes with a brand new wheel. All for about 40,000 Odyssey Touring models. If anyone has made any money on this deal so far it is a few dealers that have mis-calculated the replacement costs and charged a customer $600-$700 for a wheel and tire when they should not have.
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