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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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  • Is college hills honda in Chicago? The laywers from that crappy settlement told me to call them after she told I would be getting nothing for my 4 sets of tires.
  • No, College Hills Honda is in Ohio near Akron but shipping the four wheels (excluding tires) and spare tire to Chicago only cost maybe $50 or so.
  • As I understand it (stated in manual) it is the ESC that has been disabled and it is a major safety feature of the van (you need it). You should be able to cut out the TPMS from the PAX set of wheels and reuse them on the new rims and tires. I started my dePAXing right after I got my 2006 van and needed snow tires. I completed it this summer by selling by PAX wheels ($300) on Craig’s list and settling up with Honda for $110 and Michelin for $358.00 (Class action). I bought new TPMS on eBay for $154.00 (as stated in early post) and brought them to Town Fair Tire in metro Boston and walk out the door with new wheels (TPMS installed) and tires for $1008.00 and I love them! To buy time you could install the PAX pass inspection and replace them but you really do need to have the TPMS! Your best bet is to cut out the old ones and have them installed. To test them out first place each PAX wheel next to your new ones and the RF should sync up and that will confirm the TPMS are still good.
    RT
  • Hi Don,

    Just browsing this message board and wondering how dePAX life is working out for you. It's time for a new set of PAX tires ($1340) and I'm wondering if I should convert. I would be more than happy to pay a few hundred dollars more for the conversion IF it is a safe conversion and the handling isn't hampered. Any insights would be helpful. Thanks (I live in St Louis MO.)

    Andrew
  • Hi,

    Just wondering how de-PAX life is working out for you. Are you still happy with the conversion? Would you do it again? I think the increased mileage (an extra 2 mpg is significant!) is very interesting. How about the handling?

    Thanks
    Andrew
  • I have an 05 Ody as well and it's time for a new set of tires ($1340). Did you de-PAX and how did that go for you? Any insights would be helpful.

    Andrew
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Folks who've "DePAXed" have almost universally reported significant improvements in both ride and handling versus the lame PAX wheel/tire system. The only safety concern per-se is that you will need to buy a spare tire kit for your van.
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    I concur. We're 15K miles into DePax, no complaints. Had some vibrations but our tire shop did a lengthy rebalancing/testing and all fine. Very plsd w Continental ContiPro Contacts. As you've seen on this board, pretty simple. keeping PAX big negative is cost ($1340 now, your next set will be closer to $1800 since the PAX pool is small and shrinking). De-PAX negative is hassle and conversion cost, and of course your nexct flat is a regular flat. No run flat back up, but it also won't leave you stranded in a remote area while they FedEx a new PAX (for $400).

    Also, small point but as a lawyer I think this is important. If you DePAX and sell directly (as opposed to a trade in), have the buyer sign a written notice acknowleding they are aware the car was DePAXed. Remote risk, but you don't want your buyer to claim they didn't know ...

    Good luck.
  • So someone could take us to court for not "informing" them while Honda/Michelin get away with what they have done to all the Touring owners out there? Yeah, I guess that's the way it goes in this crazy world.

    I have just ordered a de-PAX kit from College-Hills Honda in Ohio. I called 3 local Honda dealers in St Louis and they don't want to touch it because "Honda sent us a letter and so we cant." The 4th said they would do it for me. I asked the guys at College-Hills, "So why are you doing this when almost everyone else is too afraid and saying 'No way'?" And they said, "Because it's the right thing to do." I'm sure I could find the wheels cheaper elsewhere but I'm happy to give these guys my business for sticking their necks out for us.
  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 265
    If you don't mind sharing, what kind of pricing did College-Hills give you? I live very remote from dealers so will need to find someone to help out.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    While I have only heard good things about College-Hills Honda; you can find other options over at TireRack.com. I just looked up a 17" wheel package with TPMS sensors, highly ranked Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires, and good looking Moda MD10 wheels for only $1,172.00. Not too shabby. :)
  • zboaterzboater Posts: 17
    edited October 2010
    Thanks to all on this forum. I was at 64K miles and looking at my 3rd set of PAX tires (no way at another $1,400). I recently de-PAX&#146;ed my 2006 Touring for about the same $1,400 price and could not be happier. Lots of options, but I ended up getting remanufactured 2008 Odyssey EXL wheels 16&#148; (42700-SHJ-L81) with new lug nuts and sensors, put on Goodyear Assurance Comfort Tread Touring tires 235/65-16, and added the spare tire in the back. The ride is so much smoother and quieter than before &#150; no more wheel shake and vibration due to those crappy PAX tires (even when the car was perfectly aligned with the PAX tires it always shake and pulled). While at first the car does not seem to drive &#147;as sporty&#148; (maybe it is the fact that the PAX tires were >400 lbs with sidewalls like steel vs. the new all season tires that are <160 lbs) … it does not feel &#147;mushy&#148;, handles well, and it is so much more enjoyable to drive in town and on long trips. My only complaint is that I wish I would have done this before buying my 2nd set of PAX ties at 37K miles. Note &#150; we did look at doing after market wheels (like the 17&#148; Elbrus 102), but decided to stay with the OEM look.

    BTW &#150; I noticed Honda is going to start charging a $50/wheel &#147;core&#148; fee for wheels &#150; so not sure how this is going to impact the cost of replacing with OEM wheels going forward &#150; my guess is cut up those PAX tires, yank out the sensors, and send those the nice looking but crappy wheels back to Honda to save $200.
    American Honda Launches Alloy Wheel Recycling Program
    9/29/2010
    American Honda Motor Co, Inc. announced the launch of its new alloy wheel recycling program.
    Beginning Oct. 1, American Honda will institute a core charge on all original equipment replacement Honda and Acura alloy wheels sold to its respective dealerships as an incentive to have the wheels recovered. Once the wheels are returned to American Honda, they will be melted down and reprocessed.
    For decades, American Honda says it has been an industry leader in creating more environmentally responsible means of producing automobiles and other products and that it remains committed to continuously reducing its ecological footprint and being an environmentally responsible citizen. American Honda already recycles or remanufactures many replacement parts.
    &#147;This is definitely a further step in the right direction&#148; says Bruce Smith, vice president of American Honda Parts Operations. &#147;Recycling alloy wheels will save space in landfills, help prevent ground pollution and allow the metal to be re-purposed &#151; all good for our environment.&#148;
    The program does not apply to any replacement alloy wheels purchased by Honda or Acura dealers prior to Sept. 20, 2010. Accessory wheels and steel wheels are excluded from the program.
  • RT
    I'm curious about the class action. Can you point me in the right direction? I want Honda and Michelin to pay and correct the error they made in installing a that awfull PAX in the touring (and for deceiving customers and not assuming responsibility)
    Thanks
  • zboaterzboater Posts: 17
    The class action time period has expired (Jan 2010) ... all costs on you ... unless someone else here knows something I don't. More info at http://www.sfmslaw.com/class-action-lawsuits/cases.php?id=343
  • Hi, new here to the forums. We have a '07 Ody and are looking (big surprise) to dePax after 2 new sets of tires. Back tires are getting pretty low in tread. From my prelim. research (and judging by the answers here on the forum), looks like College Hills Honda is the way to go with ordering rims. I live in the metro Atlanta area and am looking to have someone complete the dePax for us. Has anyone in the Atlanta area found or know of someone to do this? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)
  • Hi Hondanothnx,

    As posted, the class action case is closed. You should check the web site listed but I think you would have had to opt-out to file your own case. It would be a lot of work for very little reward. I have read that others have tried small claims court will bad results. Many others of bought their de-PAXing wheels, TPMS, and tires through Honda dealers online. I started my de-PAXing right after I got my 2006 van; we needed snow tires. We bought Honda steel wheels, TPMS, hubcaps, lugs, tires, spare tire kit from Honda BernardiParts.com online dealer $1278.82, which include mount, balance, and delivery. I completed de-PAXing this summer by selling my PAX wheels ($300) on Craig&#146;s list and settling up with Honda for $110 and Michelin for $358.00 (Class action). I bought new Honda OEM TPMS on eBay for $154.00 and brought them to Town Fair Tire in metro Boston and walk out the door with new aftermarket wheels (TPMS installed) and tires for $1008.00 and I love them! The town Fair tire package is complete including the wheels (17x7.5 5x120 Elbrus 105), Hub rings, Spline drive bolt kit, Hankook Ventus AS RH07, mounting, balancing, front wheel alignment,

    The online dealer option is simple and works but more money. I am very happy going with a local tier dealer package and saved a lot.

    RT
  • RT

    Thanks for the info. I called Michelin, they don't offer anything. The class action is closed for me. Local tire shops loughed when I said "PAX system", and said "go to Honda, and bring a big check book with you...."
    Town fair tire solution might work for me
    Which store was it in the Boston area? I get to Boston often enough, so will give it a try

    Many thanks
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    You can also order a complete wheel, TPMS, and tire package from TireRack.com for about $1,000. When the tires arrive they are literally ready to mount; simply jack up each corner, take off the PAX wheels and put the new ones on. Once the new wheels are mounted, you can either take your van to your dealer for a TPMS retrain, or many repair shops that has the ability to retrain the TPMS system.
  • I used the Town Fair Tire center at 1675 VFW parkway, West Roxbury MA (617) 323-2882. Any tire store could help you. They need to stop thinking &#147;de-PAX-ing&#148; and just deal with your Honda van like any other Honda van. I only difference is you need to have TPMS install on your wheels which you can buy online and if you get the Honda OEM parts you do not have to pay to have them retain. Tell them you have a EXL and would like to get a new wheel and tire package which they will be very happy to sell you. Then you hand them the TPMS and say please use them vs. the valve stems they had planned use. Just make sure you pick a wheel that can use your TPMS.
    The TireRack is also a great option as Shipo said and they also sell the retraining kit but it is a little pricy. At one time TireRack would not sell you a de-PAX-ing solution if you told them you have a PAX van.
    Shipo what is the best way to order the wheels and tires on TireRack for a PAX van or have they changed their rule about not helping out with de-PAX-ing?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    If one doesn't want (or necessarily need) to maintain the Honda factory look, then buying a set of aftermarket wheels is a good way to go. Were it that I had something like a 2007 Honda Odyssey with the PAX system, I'd simply order via TireRack and specify I had an EX-L (just like you suggested in your post) and go from there. Personally I'd go for 17" wheels and opt for one of the two following styles:

    - Elbrus 102 for $122 per wheel
    - Moda MD10 for $108 per wheel

    When it comes to rubber the only tire I'd use is the highly regarded Michelin Primacy MXV4, a tire that seems to be able to do it all regardless of the driving environment or the road and weather conditions.

    In the end, the two wheel/tire packages with the TPMS would tally up as follows:

    - Elbrus 102 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
    - - Wheels ---- $488
    - - Tires -------- $628
    - - TPMS ------ $112
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,228
    - - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,228
    - - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,328

    - Moda MD10 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
    - - Wheels ---- $432
    - - Tires -------- $628
    - - TPMS ------ $112
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,172
    - - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,172
    - - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,272

    FWIW, I use our local TownFair Tire in Salem, New Hampshire (just north of the Mass state line, all of 30 miles from Boston and by virtue of crossing the state line, no sales tax), and while I've had no problem with their actual tire service, they're not exactly pros when it comes to alignments. Twice they've aligned our vans, twice I've had to take the vans elsewhere to have the alignment fixed.
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    One note -- if you choose any option other than cutting out the TPMS from your old Pax tires, make sure you get the right TPMS for your year Ody. I can't speak for other years, but on our 07 Touring I was told compatible TPMS will reset automatically after a few miles, and that's what happened. This is only on the Touring, if you have Touring and get compatible TPMS, no need to pay the dealer or anyone else to "retrain".
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    OK, I bought a used 2008 Odyssey Touring from my local Toyota Dealership. How can I tell if my tires are PAX or not? The dealership has no clue.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Look at the side of the tire for the size. If it is a standard size like 235/45 R17 then they're conventional tires, however, if they're something like 265-790R540A then they're PAX tires.
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    Thanks for the quick reply. I am not by the van right now, so I will look later. The van DOES have the 5-spoke Honda rim - does that make a difference? I have been googling all morning and some sites say that the 11-spoke is the PAX and the 5-spoke is the non-PAX.
  • I agree with shipo - compare the tire size specs with the PAX (you can probably get the specs from michelin's PAX website). But if you have the 5 spoke it is almost assuredly non-PAX as the PAX has the 11 spoke (or is it 10 spoke) design. Not sure what you were hoping the answer would be, but I changed out my 2005 odyssey PAX tires for conventional and have been happy since.
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    Awesome, I'll check out the website and check the tire size when I get home from work.

    Paid $24,500 for a 2008 Touring in great condition with 58,000 miles on it. I know it's a lot of miles, but it's the vehicle I wanted... or, more importantly, the wife wanted.

    Does that price sound about right to you guys? KBB had it valued at over $30,000, even with the higher mileage.
  • Also, if you have the PAX system then you do not have a spare tire - look at the space in the left rear, if its not there you probably have a PAX. another source is the vehicle manual. the PAX tires also look strange - the cover the edge of the rim
  • My wife's 2005 Odyssey Touring is at 88,000 miles now and we've just put the 3rd set of PAX tires on the front. The rear tires should last until spring.

    No complaints with the mileage we've gotten, so we'll stick with the PAX tires for as long as they're available.

    Regards, JEff
  • Great News Jeff,
    Our 2007 still on the original set of PAX at 30k miles mostly city driving. (one of the tire had to be replaced 19 mo ago due to puncture) got the experience driving 25 miles on completely flat. The only bad experience was quite a few dealership not equip to do PAX tire change.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,030
    If you are disappointed in your run-flat tires and/or wish that your car had a spare tire, please email pr@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, June 15, 2011 and be sure to include your city/state of residence and a few comments on the subject.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

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