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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201

    And yet the public continues to gobble up the blah design pushing Corolla sales up and up.


    I think that most people in the "Corolla" range want a nice, sorta-stylish, non-weird, comfortable economy car.

    Those more for the "weird-lite" go Civic. After test-driving a Yaris (with the "centerpod" dash thing), "weird-heavy" would be anything Scion or either Yaris model.

    Those with zoom-zoom needs get the wee Mazda with the beefier engine.

    Have zoom-zoom needs and some extra money? Go for the VW Jetta on steroids.

    Hardcore speed 'n ego with lotsa dough in your pockets?

    Audi A4.

    The reality is, the Corolla does what it is supposed to do VERY well. That is why I'm after one (speaking for my own needs).
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,435
    Actually the Corolla fits the needs of most people - just not their wants.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Good point. Most people are rational and reasonable so they shop for their 'wants' but buy for their 'needs.
  • Its posible to design a 2.4 vvti with Hybrid tecnology in the new corolla 2008, we are talking about 60 mpg and 700 miles with a full gas tank. Maybe is near 22 grants, but you can afford it with the fuel efficiency that this solution offers. please Check Edmunds report abut Camry 2007 Hybrid, I think about this engine in corolla hood will develop more FE than in Camry, because the weight, more than 500 hundred pounds less than Camry. What do yo think? :)
  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    Actually, I've started test driving cars in process of looking for new ones - as of this past Friday.

    I tried the Yaris. Too weird. Interior way too damn cheap; crappy hard plastics and all. On the plus, it was zippy, handled very well, and gets great mileage - and only on a 1.5 liter. Oh - and that "center pod" thing?

    It sucks. Despise it.

    Behind the wheel, the Civic dash is not as weird as it seems from the passenger side. But I found myself repeatedly trying to translate the tach into speed . . . and ignoring the digital readout that actually gives speed.

    I drove a Camry Hybrid for grins. It was totally loaded. Throttle response, especially around town, is like a V-6. Quiet, comfortable, well appointed . . . and, for my life right now, totally unaffordable. I love the car, but I can't have one.

    The Corolla with a 2.4 HSD would be overkill. Like the hot-rodders of the 1980s who put small-block V-8s into Chevrolet Chevettes.

    The reality is, given how HSD functions, Toyota could put the 1.5 liter into the new Corolla and still get nice acceleration out of the car. The electric motor really helps with "getting up to speed" in a rather impressive way. It's quite "seamless," really. The only thing I noticed when the gas engine kicked in was a slight sense of vibration or "humming" in the steering column and pedals. And it was quite slight - not something that is intrusive on the driving experience.

    Fast, are you sure you don't want the Mazda 3 with the 2.3 engine? The base Corolla will never come as you describe.

    Corolla XRS, probably WILL come as you describe. But Corolla S, CE, and LE?

    I doubt it.

    Gas prices are rising again: keeping those MPG numbers as high as possible with standard gasoline engines (it will be some time yet, sadly, before HSD is the norm) will be a must to remain competitive in the market given cars with larger sizes and engines are just not selling as well.

    So much so, in fact, that the Honda dealer I visited commented on the overload of Accord V6 coupes and sedans. Was actually wanting to deal with me on one in place of the Civic (even though I am not buying until at least next year) if I agreed to buy over the summer.

    I suggested he try dealing on an Accord 4-cylinder instead, and the chap sheepishly responded he was having a hard time keeping those in stock these days.

    ANYHOW - given how well Toyota did with the new Camry (and it was just fantastic - felt like a more expensive European car, honestly), I have no doubt that the lot of us will get a Corolla in a trim we find acceptable.
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    With the future Corolla slated to come out with the Hybrid version, would there really be a need for the Prius?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    once again this weekend that lots of dealers have XRSs sitting around - makes me wonder how well the XRS really sells, and whether or not sales aren't slow enough for them to consider cancelling the XRS next time around. I hope not, but I continue to fear so.

    If the rumored hybrid really materializes, it will be awesome. I can imagine it getting better than 50 mpg combined. I hope they continue the Matrix, preferably (my personal opinion) NOT as a 3-row microvan though. And I hope they offer a hybrid Matrix as well, even if it does make the Prius somewhat redundant. Can we get an AWD Matrix next time around that actually has sufficient power to sustain highway speed on grades without constant gear-shifting? :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    the article at Automotive News today? Toyota is now saying they will not intro the new Corolla until spring 2008 as a 2009 model. Which would mean the current one would run for six years (first available at dealers February-March 2002).

    The current model has sold and IS SELLING phenomenally. I think they are figuring they will just milk the old model for all it's worth. I think a large part of its success now in its later years is due completely to the high gas prices - the Corolla and Civic stand head and shoulders above the rest of the field on fuel economy. So if gas prices wind up dropping (I don't think they will, but you never know), this could turn out to be a bad move.

    And I was hoping we would see the new Corolla sooner rather than later...I hope this 6-year model cycle thing is one-time-only. :-/

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201

    #409 of 409 did anyone see by nippononly Jul 10, 2006 (8:11 am)
    the article at Automotive News today?


    Could you kindly post the key excerpt? I'm guessing that is on my worksites "blocked" list.
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    Could you guide us to where you read this on the site?
    I could not find it.

    Gampa
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    here:

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage?ws=uf

    You should see it about halfway down the front page. Looks official, Automotive News is very careful about what it publishes. Although it still could change again, of course.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    I'll check it out when I get home.

    I cannot access the site at all because the facility uses software to block time-wasting, pornographic, or otherwise irrelevant sites (but, for some reason, I can get this one).

    Thanks.
  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    What is the Corolla XRS? My wife has a 06 Corolla S with most if not all the options but I never heard of the XRS version.

    Thanks,
    Ken
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    the XRS is the sport Corolla - 164 hp engine out of the now-defunct Celica GTS, 6-speed manual, larger rims than the 'S', and lower to the ground with better suspension and X-bracing for the rear seats. They are fairly rare in some areas, I hear, but not around here.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    With the future Corolla slated to come out with the Hybrid version, would there really be a need for the Prius?

    The Prius is sort of the test model for HSD (Hybrid Syngergy Drive) technology. Prius will, likely, introduce the first plug-in version of Hybrid Syngergy Drive.

    I'll post some links on that particular product's development shortly. But, for now, the basic idea of a plug-in hybrid is (1) beef up the battery reserve, (2) put a beefier motor in the car so (3) one can go MUCH longer distances MUCH faster . . . on pure electric. The gas kicks in over 50 mph or after the first 60+ miles, making the combustion engine a secondary engine, NOT a primary engine.

    Neat thing is that setup will give a 100+ mpg car. Based on some current research in Canada and California, there is a real chance we could hit about 200 mpg with the plugin technology.

    In any case, Prius will be the sort of "testing ground" for such technology (to see if consumers will buy it).

    The Corolla is a normal car which may use such technology after Prius tests it.

    That is why the Prius, like the Yaris and Scion vehicles, has that "ultra-weird" dashboard: evidently, Toyota believes "greenies" are just grown-up teenagers with an emotionally-vested perspective in "weird" and "unique" and "groovy." The irony is that dashboard is the only thing in Prius I really and truly dislike (and I dislike it VERY heartily).

    And, conversely, that is why the Corolla has a normal, needle-pointing-at-gauge dashboard. Responsible adults are supposed to like Corolla. We're NOT supposed to be "weird" or "unique" or "groovy."

    Or so my reasoning goes.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    rant on

    "Neat thing is that setup will give a 100+ mpg car."

    We've already got plenty of 100+ mpg cars.

    Take a car. Put it at the top of a mountain and let it coast down in neutral. Measure the fuel consumed. Hey! Whaddaya know......100+ mpg. Or put the car on a trailor and haul it 100 miles. Measure the fuel in the cars tank before and after. WOW!!!! What great mileage!!!

    Sarcastic? Yes. Plug-in hybrids are NOT "100+ mpg cars" because they don't travel all their distance ON GAS.

    If my daily commute was 5 miles each way and I never exceeded 40mph, I could theoretically never use any gas. Would my mileage be 100 mpg? 1000 mpg? How about a BILLION miles per gallon?

    MPG is a measure of how much gas was consumed IN ORDER TO move a car x number of miles; not how much gas was consumed WHILE the car was moved x number of miles.

    rant off

    And now back to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress....
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    here is the link to the full article, which Autoweek now has:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060711/FREE/60709001/1041

    In it, the announcement seems official that the new Corolla is now set back to a debut 20 months away. Apparently Japan and Europe will get theirs before we do.

    It goes on to cite exactly what I thought it would, basically that the current model is selling so well with practically no incentives (increasing sales year over year despite its age) that there is no point in rushing to update it.

    Plus, there is an internal struggle between the conservative and avant garde stylists as to how the next Corolla should look. Apparently the new Civic scared them, which I can't see any reason for. Depending on your POV, the new Civic is either nicely streamlined in kind of a dull way or a little weird looking, IMO. I don't like the enormously long, cab-forward-1980s-minivan windshield all that much, the back just looks uninspiring, and the wheel covers on the 16s of the LX model kind of stand out as cheap-looking because they are so big and plasticky.

    I am sure the powers that be just want the next Corolla to look like a bigger Yaris and smaller Camry, which 2 models already look so similar it is uncanny. While I wouldn't think that is the BEST road for the new Corolla to take, I don't think it should be outlandish either. Better to let the Corolla's buyer base age a bit - this is a model that draws in commuters of all ages, so it wouldn't do to bring out a polarizing Corolla that kills sales.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    Sarcastic? Yes. Plug-in hybrids are NOT "100+ mpg cars" because they don't travel all their distance ON GAS.

    That was my point - the electric motor keeps the car going up to 45 mph and the gas engine takes over then.

    What is your issue with this, exactly?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,435
    I think the issue is that you still pay for the electricity, and the production of that electricity still produces pollution and/or has other environmental impacts.

    Kinda like saying my bike does not use any gas, but it does run on cheeseburgers (that are eaten) which cost money and may be from beef that was grazed by clearcutting the rainforests.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The benefit of PHEV's is that you can 'power them up' at night when the plants are using less capacity and may in fact need some usage. It is also possible to power up using one's own sources such as solar or wind power.

    It's a complex equation...
    ..can/should PHEV's be allowed to charge up in peak hours or only in off peak hours?
    ..how many PHEV's can be put into use before additional energy is needed ( pollution produced )at the central power plants?
    ..is there a parabolic curve where too few PHEV's don't save enough and too many use too much extra energy?
  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    KDH,

    The benefit of PHEV's is that you can 'power them up' at night when the plants are using less capacity and may in fact need some usage.

    Dead-on.

    I live in Rochester, NY - near Ithaca and Cornell, which has an "alternative energy" program.

    Here's some of what has happened with plug-in . . . cost data is presented on some sites (explore for yourself).

    Calcars hybrid program: http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html

    E-drive: http://www.edrivesystems.com/index.html

    Canada's Hymotion: http://www.hymotion.com/ (note the Canadian govt. is buying modified Toyota hybrid fleets from these fellows)

    The Wikipedia general info on the product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid_electric_vehicle

    The plug-in is cheap to run precisely because it uses less expensive electricity at lower speeds, reserving the liquid fuel and related combustion engine at higher speeds (where combustions engines run more efficiently and effectively, in any case).

    To bring this full circle, the Prius is rumored to be headed this direction.

    The Corolla may allegedly get Hybrid Synergy Drive.

    Either way, it will be a good number of years before we see HSDs as the "norm" in Toyota's lineup. Change happens slowly.

    Which, actually, is sad: I adored the Camry Hybrid I test drove.

    I just can't afford it - ergo my hopes for a Corolla HSD (or at least an S with a 5-speed) in 07 or 08.
  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    MPG is a measure of how much gas was consumed IN ORDER TO move a car x number of miles; not how much gas was consumed WHILE the car was moved x number of miles.

    I just re-read wondering why he ranted so.

    I get the distinction . . . but the reality is that, with current technology, I don't think there is a way to build a VERY efficient car that can also go long distances without marrying the electric and the combustion outside the Toyota Hybrid Syngergy Drive.

    And HSD is pretty amazing stuff - compared with the Honda version, it's rather technically advanced.

    But, until that "next best thing" comes along?

    I'm willing to be an engineering dolt and regard it as an integrated propulsion system (because Toyota Marketing tells me to :P ).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    What this means to you: Toyota is flush with cash and firing on all cylinders. So why would they delay this redesign? Mysterious.

    IMO next year is the year of the Tundra. Nothing is going to get in the way of the rollout of this new vehicle as it goes for the heart of the truck market. Nothing.

    It's fortuitous that the Corolla is still doing so well. All the equipment is fully depreciated and the lines are humming at full capacity and the incentives are amazingly - zero. The Corolla is just a cash machine now.

    OTOH the timing of the Tundra investment in TX is dicey. With gas at $3.00 and higher(?) and domestic trucks tanking ( along with the older Tundra ) it's not surprising that they want everything to be focused on the Tundra.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    that was the other thing the article mentioned - they had so many models to pump out this year and next, that taking on the Corolla as well would be straining their resources.

    But still, it seems good business to continue a model selling this well, even increasing its sales despite its age. The market is fickle: change it just a little for the next generation and you may no longer have the magic equation, with a consequent drop in sales. One thing's for sure, the price will go up a good bit for the next model.

    Right now nothing much can beat it for price. Not even the Koreans. The ages-old Focus can, but it's also ages old, and showing it.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I just re-read wondering why he ranted so.

    I get the distinction . . . but the reality is that, with current technology, I don't think there is a way to build a VERY efficient car that can also go long distances without marrying the electric and the combustion outside the Toyota Hybrid Syngergy Drive."


    Well, I'm glad at least one person gets the distinction.

    For the record, I'm all in favor of more research and implementation of plug-in hybrids. I think that they are the logical next-step beyond the current Toyota HSD or Hondas IMA. I just get irritated at the technically inaccurate claims of "100+ mpg".

    But that's MY little problem... :blush:
  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    I just get irritated at the technically inaccurate claims of "100+ mpg".

    Technically, it IS inaccurate. Agreed. But I nearly missed your point in the content of the rant.

    In application, though, low use of the combustion engine is the end result (or the effective end result) for a plug in hybrid . . . which means VERY stingy fuel use. While electric motors do wonderfully with the "start from a dead-stop" and "low speed changes" kind of thing based on how they (1) work and (2) deliver the power, internal combustion engines do better at what effectively end up being highway speeds.

    Add to the mix that that first approximately 60 to 75 miles from the heavy electric mode of plug-in hybrid costs from between 75 cents to a buck or so . . . and that is wonderfully cost effective.

    Fully electric cars are neat, but that whole "cannot go very long distances" thing is, indeed, a problem given how "average families" travel.

    Granted, speaking for myself, as age 40 looms, the idea of "car trip" grows less and less appetizing: I try to keep my headaches few and far between, so I probably could use an fully electric car.

    I'll just be happy, though, with a Corolla HSD for now.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    From a post over at TN the following sounds very very likely. It's not official but it has the 'feel' of being right.

    next Gen Corolla?
  • sonatabeansonatabean Posts: 201
    Hey, KDH -

    The TN material conflicts with this press release from Toyota Motor in Autoweek:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060619/FREE/60619005/1041/T- OC01ARCHIVE
  • semantic2semantic2 Posts: 28
    damn. was hoping to get to take a look at it next year. now it won't even come out until 2008. even though the current one is still popular. i don't like it. maybe should go back to the civic even though i don't like the front. arrrgh. maybe they should rename the corolla the trueno or levin. :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I hadn't seen that press release before so possibly both are true!! :D

    The Corolla after all has to remain an economy sedan in the $15-$19K range so it makes sense that the 1.8L will reamain the basic engine. However as a replacement for the Celica the Corolla Coupe, if it exists, could go with the 2.0L.

    The timing and the other specs from the TN post seem reasonable.
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