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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    ...because they (VW TDIs) are in such demand, you are correct that their market rate is now often above what they cost new. As for reliability, I own both Toyotas and VW TDIs, two of each. I was surprised that the TDIs have been more reliable and less costly when repairs were needed, and nope--I'm considering the whole car not just the engine. As for emission standards, the standards have changed for diesels.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    Hopefully the American version will be simliar to the European version. I expect that Toyota will benchmark the Civic to some degree but will keep much of Corolla's past virtues, like practicality, reliability and excellent MPG. The current version is practical and seems reliable but lacks features that even Hyundai now offers for less. Corollas' side impact ratings are poor; I'd expect Toyota to fix this and also make the car a little more fun to drive. Bring 'em on!
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    30 years ago when diesel Rabbits first appeared you had to put money down to get your place in line for a diesel. Months later when it finally arrived you could flip it and make $1000 (on a $5000 car). They shook like crazy but delivered good mileage.

    Never liked to beg to buy and wouldn't drive a rattle box. I know they're better now, but I'm way too old to beg to buy (hoping the U.S. never goes totally in the tank).
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    I'm comparing xB 5M to xD 4A because I'm considering buying both and if they’re sitting side by side in the garage, with one being wifey’s and the other being mine, the comparison will be staring us in the face everyday. BTW we both earn about the same. (Are you married jaxs1?) :blush:

    While I haven't seen the xD, my guess is that it'd be a man versus boy comparison (like an Accord versus Civic) as the new xB is truck/van/SUV like compared to little cars. Don't make the mistake of comparing old and new xB s. (It confuses that Scion kept the same name for a different car, but changed it for xA/xD.) Yes an Accord VP versus Civic LX is probably a better current example of (at least near) pricing overlap. Content value goes to the older Accord while fuel economy goes to the newer Civic. From briefly sitting in each, the amount of useable space is similar with the Accord seating seeming like overstuffed chairs.

    Toyota doesn't have this pricing dilemma between Camry and Corolla, but I see a pricing skew between Scion and Toyota, in particular with Yaris, xB, xD, and Corolla. Most here believe that the xD pricing will run about $1,000 below the new xB, so I’ll use that for the following comparisons:

    TMV for a 4A Yaris hatch is $14,700 when equipped similarly to an xD that is estimated to cost $16,000 with about the same fuel economy. IME $1,300 is minimal to cover poor acceleration, two less doors, less room, goofy center speedometer, and price haggling.

    TMV for a 4A Yaris sedan is $16,600 when equipped similarly to an xD that is estimated to cost $16,000 with about the same fuel economy. IME $600 for a sedan body style versus the utility of a hatch and giving up better acceleration on top of needing to price haggle makes even less sense to me.

    TMV for the current Corolla LE 4A is $16,300 when equipped similarly to an xD that is estimated to cost $16,000 with about the same fuel economy. IME $300 for a sedan body style versus the utility of a hatch and needing to price haggle makes little sense to me. The new Corolla will probably only increase the price spread.

    OTOH the old xB listed for $1100 more than the xA, so the gap between new xB and xD aught to be greater with the difference in engines. If the difference is indeed greater, it will only increase this Scion versus Toyota pricing dilemma IMO.

    Once the xD is released all this speculation of content and pricing will be over.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    ...want to stay on topic with the Corolla, but having much experience with VW's TDIs, many Toyota (and Honda) vehicles, driving 500 to 1000 miles every week and performing service myself, guess I have to reply. VW's TDI is a fine car. Just looking at the specs and reading articles, most may not appreciate the TDI, not only for its high MPG, but also for its driving experience, fun, and reliability, torque, and low RPMs at highway speeds. Previously making selections looking at only reviews, specs and CU reports was a big mistake for me. Don't just read, drive! Everyone needs to select what's best for them. My TDI's have been superior to even my Honda Accords for reliability and have provided a superior driving experience to date at lower total cost of ownership. The diesel revolution is coming to the USA; over 50% of the cars sold in Europe are now diesels. This post is not intended to pit VW against Toyota. Doing many things well, Corolla remains on my list as a fine high value candidate.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    You have a good memory. Just like many dealers selling hybrids above sticker price, that's what happened back then... guess people don't change much.

    Thankfully diesels have come a long way since the old rattle boxes. It's good that they have as diesel technology has advantages over the gasoline engine. Europe has already discovered this. Rumor has it that Toyota will be bringing their diesels to the USA... hopefully to the Corolla, too. I'll then glady trade my new Tacoma for a diesel version.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    Yes, does have a lot of Camry, and (IMHO) looks better than the Camry. Wish Toyota had made the Camry look like a larger version of this!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Apologies to our Host for off-topic, but FWIW I would not expect the same fuel economy from a xD that you get from a Yaris (or even a Corolla), if I were you. A Yaris will easily do 40+ mpg. The much bigger, thirstier xD will not come close to that (see for example C/D's review of the xD in the current issue).
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    xB, not xD, right?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    The original comments re fuel economy were re the xD vs. Yaris and Corolla.

    Now maybe the next Corolla will be a different story vs. the xD in fuel economy. But I sure hope not!
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    Right, but CD review is of the xB.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It has a mix of Yaris, Corolla and Camry in it

    Doc,

    take a closer look and I mean a real closer look. Now can you see any traces of a Yaris or Camry? I guess not! In fact this new generation Corolla model looks purely like a current Jetta.

    Now whose copying who? VW or Toyota? :confuse:

    If only the next generation Corolla could have a TDI diesel engine then it would be almost as good as a Jetta :P
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    Saw current gen Corolla and Jetta next to each other last week, same shade of silver - sorry, the Jetta looked very close to the Corolla. That's been my problem with the Jetta. Loved the last gen, but think the current one a Corolla look alike.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Oh, sure, right. I am alphabet challenged today. :blush:
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    Actually, you're kinda right - CD web site has a first drive of the xD, they do like the added kick from the 1.8l compared to the Yaris, and comment the reduced mileage rating is mostly due to EPA mpg calculation change.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    most toyota guys wouldn't i guess. :P

    but aside from amazing mileage, why not? you could answer your own question by thiking of the (now very few) times that customers have asked you what the 'deal' was with the prius and how they 'just didn't get it'. at least the jetta is A LOT less polarizing.

    It does reseemble the current gen corolla a little...like how the current gen corolla could be made to look awesome instead of how it does. (most people dont miss the older jetta after driving the new one; it handles much better has more space and power, the list goes on.)

    i def think that the next gen corolla is a nice looking car, and much better looking than current gen...and while economy will probably be better than average, it looks like there is going to be some weight gains.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I see a whole lot of Yaris and Camry, especially the front end.

    It takes the Yaris' grille, and the Camry has the hoodline set well behind the grille.

    This is a spot-on hybrid of the two front ends! ;)

    DrFill
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,694
    There you go, starting hybrid Corolla rumors...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    When do they go on sale?...heheh
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    If you want a small, possibly more economical Toyota sedan, the Yaris is available, otherwise Prius already exists. There's no need for a Corolla hybrid. OTOH a Corolla with the just announced 2.0L would be sweet.

    IMO a 1.5L turbo, tuned for economy at lower engine speeds and greater power at higher speeds would make more sense to me. Saab has been offering such a 2.0L engine for 30+ years and with Toyota's economy of scale they could keep the costs well below a hybrid. The added complexity couldn't be any more so than a hybrid, with no battery related drawbacks (carbon footprint, weight, lifespan, unknowns).

    To me hybrids are a fad that will pass, fuel cells are the final answer and I wish we'd focus more that versus wasting energy, time, and public interest in -end, interim solutions.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    I fully agree. When the current generation Jetta came out, at first I actually mistook it for a Corolla from a distance; I'd bet that VW was looking at the Corolla. While still a good car, sadly the latest Jetta lost some of previous generation's "fun factor." Does this prove that VW was looking at the Corrolla? :)
  • joem5joem5 Posts: 201
    Alot of frugal people drive them,because it saves them money. I think they are probably wiser than us.
    Toyota better not forget why people buy the Corolla for economy, engineering and reliability.
    Why is everyone apologising for discussing the competetion,they all are trying to out do each other.
    Now, watch her jump on me like white on rice.I'd like to know what makes a Corolla special compared to pocket rockets,but a Corrolla can't be in that class with out upping the price and the big H will out sell them. :shades:
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    joem5,

    If you look back, you'll find that the members of this forum (like most) have a hard time staying on topic. Of course, it'd help if Toyota would release more information. :blush:

    Corolla is perhaps the quinesential sensible sedan. It boasts the following attributes: relatively cheap to buy, reliable, economical to operate, and low depreciation rates. This is the ideal basic transportation for practical people who don't have to worry or think about it. All this put together makes it really, really dull.

    There has always been other cars that are cheaper, better equipped, more fun to drive, etc. But the long history of the above attributes has created a mountain of loyality. As fuel prices only go up with time and the standard of living for working Americans continues to go down, the Corolla concept makes sense to more and more people.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    proabably, its been a bench mark for reliabilty and economy, and since people have no problems buying it despite what it looks like, why not?

    i don't think they lost the 'fun factor' the new jetta handles worlds better;i.e. no torsion beam suspension. did it lose some 'coolness'. a little.

    i agree with mcmamus; no need for a corolla hybrid.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    I agree with you on that. I'd bet that Toyota makes the new Corolla more attractive and will take some cues from both Jetta and Civic. And yep, no need for a Corolla Hybrid. And please, make sure that it is still offered with a manual transmission option!

    This is somewhat subjective, and it may be because I'm comparing my Golfs to the new Jetta. (Should be comparing old to new Jetta.) I almost bought a new Jetta but I found I could toss my Golf around much easier... seemed more responsive to me, and it's TDI engine moves the Golf around more quickly because it weighs less. So, to me, I gave the Jetta a lower 'fun factor' and then searched long and hard for used low mileage Golf.

    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=105254/pageNumber=1?synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/new/2007/volkswagen/jetta/100778032/roadtestarticle.html&articleId=105254
  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    So, to me, I gave the Jetta a lower 'fun factor' and then searched long and hard for used low mileage Golf.

    I really don't understand what a Golf, Jetta comparison, or your inability to purchase a new vehicle has too do with Future Toyota Corolla :sick:
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    Then let me enlighten you. VW took cues from the Corolla when designing the latest Jetta. The VW vehicles are certainly more of a "drivers car" with respect to handling and performance; Toyota has a good reputation for reliability and value. They are similar in that they are small vehicles and are 'best sellers' from a world-wide perspective. Hence, comparisons are inevitable--we all learn from each others perspectives and comparisons. (I own both Toyota and VW vehicles, and the future Corolla will be on my list to evaluate.) What are these blogs for if not to discuss these things?
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    With shipping, the xD will be: manual $15,130; auto $15,930.

    This is higher than I'd like to see (remains only $1,300 less than the new xB even though xB now has a bigger engine). This is $2,200 more than a comparable Yaris (both are very similiarly sized inside and out with the big differences being the number of doors and engine displacement). Note that the xD will use the new 1.8L (like Corolla) versus the well known 2.4L and 1.5L of the xB and Yaris.

    This really makes me wonder where Corolla pricing will come in. Can they really price it the same (or higher :confuse: ) than the xB?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I don't expect much above $15,500 for a stick CE, $16,300 for slush.

    I would like to see the Corolla LE go back to being a luxury model, as the Mazda3 and VW Jetta have reenergized the luxury compact market.

    DrFill
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