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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    I am very confused by your reply. :confuse:

    How can this be the midpoint of the platform's life when the car will be redesigned for next year?

    I hope you are right that the 2009 Corolla won't get bigger. But I am not very hopeful, based on history: each Corolla has been bigger than the previous one; each Camry has been bigger; Yaris is bigger than ECHO; each Tundra is bigger; each RAV4 is bigger; each Highlander is bigger... there is a definite pattern here.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The current Camry is no longer than the outgoing version, but it IS shorter, and slightly wider, with a longer wheelbase and reduced overhangs. Bigger, though, it is not.

    Interior room is up fractionally, weight up marginally, trunk size down, and crash protection well improved, earning a 'Good' structure rating from IIHS in side impact, matched only by a few competitors (Passat, Legacy, Galant).

    I expect the Corolla to follow suit.

    Whatever the case, we'll find out in a few months, with Toyo announcing it will debut the '09 at SEMA.

    ~alpha
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Toyota's platforms have approximately a 10 yr cycle. This platform is now beginning it's 6th year ( midpoint ). The Camry Gen's 2 & 3 were the same platform; the Gen 4 and 5 are the same platform.

    The Highlander is in reality the Lexus 300 which first came out in 1999. That platform ended it's 10 yr life this year.

    10 yrs is not carved in stone but it's a good yard stick.
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Posts: 139
    SEMA is not until late october/early november. Well at least we are no longer playing the guessing game anymore. We have an actual date when the corolla will be revealed.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Not like Ford, with the Ranger and Focus, which are hanging on the vine.

    DrFill
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    2006 Camry: 3108 lbs., 189.2 in. long, 70.7 in. wide
    2007 Camry: 3285 lbs., 189.2 in. long, 71.7 in. wide
    (Source: multiple, including Motor Trend)

    Looks to me like the 2007 Camry is bigger than the previous generation car. They are the same length, but the 2007 is wider and heavier.

    Yes, I expect the 2009 Corolla will follow suit: bigger and heavier. Hopefully it will also improve to Good on the IIHS side impact test.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    OK, I knew the Camry had a long platform life but was not aware the 2009 Corolla would be based on the same platform as the current car. It's amazing to me how Toyota gets away with reusing the same platform on a car for 10-11 years while other automakers redesign the platform every 5 years or so. Ford at least seems to have picked up on this strategy by staying with the same platform for the Focus for quite a while--although they get dinged for it, even though dynamically I think it's a superior platform to the Corolla's.

    Hey, did you see in the SEMA announcement the note about a Corolla coupe/hatchback? It's not clear if they meant a coupe that is a hatchback, or a coupe and a hatchback, or if they aren't sure which it will be (i.e. is it just a replacement for the Matrix?) It would be good to see a Corolla coupe again, and a hatchback that is a true Corolla 5-door hatch and not a totally different body style ala the Matrix.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    The Mazda3 is on the Volvo S40 platform, as of 2004. Why the Focus didn't get onboard is anyones's guess.

    The Focus is universally panned, against it's superior cousin. Having driven both a bit, that is pretty clear.

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Alpha beat you to the punch doc.
    :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The big volume items, Camry/ES, Corolla, 4Runner/GX, Highlander/RX, and soon the Prius all run about 10 yrs on the same base. At about 5 years the sheet metal is changed significantly. At 3 yrs and at 8 yrs there is a minor MCE in styling and content.

    In parallel the powertrains also run on about a 10 year cycle but they often overlap the platform updates by about 50%.

    As an example, the Camry used the 2.2L through all the Gens 2 and 3 but went to the 2.4L for Gens 4 and 5. However the 3.0L/3.3L V6 overlapped Gens 3 and 4 and was new for Gen 5.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Yep, universally panned. Too bad for the Corolla it's generally considered no better than or even inferior to the Focus.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/08/earlyshow/living/supersavers/main604717.shtml

    Yep, definitely time for a new Corolla!
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Buyers have been very kind to the Ford, even after it's atrocious 2000 year.

    Having sold a Focus or two, I know it is positioned as some sort of Sports sedan. It is well behind cars like the Mazda3 in that regard. And it won't get better in the 2008 facelift.

    Toyota wants the Corolla to be well-built, likeable, and efficient. That's it.

    The people approve.

    Look at it this way. This Corolla is going out with a bang! :)

    DrFill
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Posts: 139
    I believe Toyota should come out with a two door coupe which could compete against the two door civic.

    But who knows really what toyota is going to do.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Semantics. Heavier to me does not equal bigger, as weight has nothing to do with volume. You fail to point out that the '06 Camry was half an inch taller than the '07. For all intents and purposes, the car is almost exactly the same volume, and cannot be classified in the same grouping of other Toyota redesigns - such as RAV and Highlander, for example.

    I agree the next Corolla will likely be heavier, but given the current size of the Camry in relation to the Avalon, I doubt it will grow - in terms of exterior volume -very much if at all.

    As noted, time will tell, SEMA will be here before we know it! The h/b took me by surprise, and I'm hoping this is a separate offering from the Blade nee Matrix.

    Toyota managed to make the new Camry 4 cylinder quicker and of the same efficiency as the outgoing model, and V6 MUCH quicker and MORE fuel efficient than the outgoing model, and I hope the Corolla follows suit. (This despite the increased weight).

    (Source, Consumer Reports for both acceleration and OVERALL MPG Gen 5 vs. Gen 6).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    OK. Next time I see a 250 pound guy next to a 160 pound guy of the same height, I'll try to think to myself, "Oh, look, that guy has a greater volume than the other guy!" In the past, I might have thought, "Oh, look, that guy is bigger than the other guy!" ;)

    Actually, the 2007 Camry has LESS interior volume than the 2006 Camry! I sure hope THAT is a formula that Toyota does not repeat with the 2009 Corolla: wider, porkier, but less interior room. Hopefully they will instead follow the formula Hyundai used on the 2007 Elantra: about the same length and weight, and the same power, but better fuel economy, lower emissions, a bigger interior, and more standard safety features.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    We all know that a 250 lb guy next to a 160 lb guy wouldn't be just 1 inch wider! Seriously though, volume is length, width, and height, and overall interior volume for the '07 Camry isn't down noticeably; overall, I believe 2 or so cubic feet. (And I'm sure the width increase is something of a factor in the Camry's exemplary crash ratings.)

    The formula Hyundai used on the Elantra, eh? Well, ok, I'm pretty sure the Corolla is already ULEV-II, which is pretty decent, but yes, PZEV would be fantastic. And indeed, more standard safety features, but as long as they translate into something (and we can hope the Elantra's do, as compared to the Accent's scores, for example). I just hope that the Corolla doesn't follow the Elantra's sales formula - a 6% decrease YTD through June, despite being a brand new model, in a segment that is growing due to increased fuel costs. (The Sentra has been a very sad story as well.)
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

    Toyota needs lessons from Hyundai like BMW needs Lincoln's help making a suspension.

    Regarding the Corolla 2-door, it's too racy for a Corolla. It sounds like a good idea, but so did the Solara.

    DrFill
  • rcinmdrcinmd Posts: 139
    A couple weeks ago at a local restaurant a car caught my eye while I was parking.

    It was a four door hatch, a virtual clone of the Kia C'eed, forthcoming Hyundai i30, 08 Subaru Imprezza, etc. The car was a Toyota Corolla Prima I believe, with temp tags and a German license plate frame. Turned out it was being driven by someone from the German embassy. I did not have the opportunity to talk to them about it.

    Whether or not that car reflects our next Corolla, I'm not sure. I do know that what has been sold as the Corolla overseas has been very different from ours. But the size and configuration of this one would make perfect sense as a replacement for what we have now.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    The decrease in interior room on the 2007 Camry is less than 1 cu. foot, but it's a decrease in a larger car.

    If the 2009 Corolla's MSRP is increased as much as the 2007 Elantra's MSRP was increased, and at the same time incentives are cut back, and at the same time Toyota cuts back on the number of Corollas available to sell, then I think it's quite possible we'll see a sales decrease for the new Corolla.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Given the direction fuel is going, I seriously expect $5-$8 / gallon fuel within 5 yrs, Toyota better be planning a huge increase in Corolla sales. Hybridization of the entire line is the midterm goal to satisfy demand and the probable new CAFE legislation by 2020. But if governmental estimates are accurate ( demand for petroleum products grows as supply and processing capacity remain the same or decline ) then the switch to smaller vehicles will be faster than now even.

    Oklahoma landrush comes to mind. Any good well-respected model should flourish; Corolla, Civic, Focus, Elantra, Mazda3, Cobalt (?), 'Hello, Chrysler? There is a probable surge in demand for smallish fuel efficient vehicles. Did you want to participate?'
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Sales would have to go down, wouldn't they? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    didn't realize toyo does what they do with keeping a platform alive for around ten years!

    the new corolla doesn't seem that great anymore; so i'm assuming they will be keeping the torsion beam rear suspension?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's one reason for hugely profitable vehicles. The development costs are done once then amortized over say 3-5 years. After that the Fixed Cost development cost is just additonal profit, or as in the cases of the Corolla and Prius now, flexibility to lower prices ( incentives ) to increase volume.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Exactly! Which is why I am eager to see Toyota keep the Corolla the small, fuel-efficient car as it is now, rather than some bloated thing like the new xB.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Yes, I agree that if Toyota combined a large price increase, reduced incentives, and reduced inventory when the 2009 Corolla is introduced, sales will go down. Yet some people seem surprised when the same outcome happens for a different car. :confuse:

    I think it's likely incentives will be cut at first--happens to nearly all fresh models. Price increase? Highly likely if the car has more feature content, e.g. safety features. Reduced inventory? Not an issue for Toyota, is it?
  • No, the new corolla will have a new platform, due to increased safety standards for future vehicles. The new model's platform will have similar elements to the current rav4 of which it has always been based. Wheelbase/length/height will be around the same but width will increase about 2 1/2" and lower ground clearance to make it look more proportional then the out going model. Transmissions will probably be a 6 speed manual based on the xrs but different gear ratio or Super CVT-i to optimize fuel economy.
  • The current Corolla has been selling extremely well even better than when it was introduced. So I don't see what the problem is. Toyota doesn't like to put incentives but rather give you more features. Still the price is very competitive with the other offerings. Toyota understands that as gas continues to rise, people would want something more fuel efficient and the corolla gives you that and if they give you more interior space...Why not?

    I don't know why some of you are so negative bout the Corolla... Have u even driven one before? The current one's ride is quite competent, comfortable and it doesn't roll or plow either. Isn't that what people want?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If the Corolla gained any more than 3 inches in length, or width. Or more than $500 in base MSRP.

    What WILL happen is you will see Corollas passing $20k, but not go into Mazda3/Jetta territory. :(

    There are different segments of the compact car market.

    Civic is basically a Corolla, but it sells to much younger buyers. Coupes and Si models will sell to that market. That's why Corolla will probably never get a 2-door, because that is Honda's market. They market to the sporting driver. Toyota has no heritage in that class. To steep a hill to climb.

    Parents want Corollas for their kids, if they are buying them a first car. The kids want a Civic more. Having seen it firsthand, parents get nostalgic about Corolla, and know a friend who sings the praises of their Corolla, and the keep up with The Joneses. :blush:

    I think a graduate who buys their first car will get a Civic. But a student is more likely to have a Corolla.

    Or a used Civic.

    Redesignig a compact car is about knowing your place in the market.

    Hyundai doesn't know it's place, or wants to change places, and that's where the problems come in. The last Elantra was a good $5 cigar, and now we have Limiteds and stuff their buyer doesn't want.

    No Elantra should pass $17k. Period. Know your market.

    Civic and Corolla are good cars, but they are just better at knowing and reaching a targeted market.

    Every battle is won before it is ever fought. ;)

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    "That's why Corolla will probably never get a 2-door, because that is Honda's market. They market to the sporting driver. Toyota has no heritage in that class."

    Doc, you're probably too young to remember or weren't born yet. Ever heard of the 1985 Corolla GT-S 2 door coupe? Around $8000.00 and more fun than a Honda!
    :shades:
    Mackabee
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