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2009 Toyota Corolla

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  • jet10000jet10000 Posts: 656
    You can see the torque for the civic here. It is the same 128lb ft.

    http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx

    That means, the only difference between the 1.8L is the weaker Corolla engine.

    As for the XRS, yeah perhaps in the quarter mile, it might get a little jump, but after that, the Si with a 197hp engine is going to blow away the 158hp engine in the XRS. I think 158 is a joke for an upgraded engine. That's only 18hp more than a standard Civic and it's estimated to get far worse gas mileage.

    Again, Toyota had the time to build a car that would have better specs than a car Honda released two years ago and it chose to just put very weak engines in them.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    The 158 HP engine is due to be replaced soon. Maybe in less than 2 years.
    It is not competitive with similar sized engines from Honda and Nissan.
    It wouldn't be bad to have less power if it had a fuel economy advantage, but it doesn't.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Again, Toyota had the time to build a car that would have better specs than a car Honda released two years ago and it chose to just put very weak engines in them.

    Yep you are right and since they had that time I guess you can conclude the they did that intentionally. Now the isssue is to figure out 'Why' they did that intentionally.

    These things aren't done at random or by mistake...'Oops Hey did anyone update the engine?'

    If you haven;'t driven the new 1.8L it's much much nicer than the outgoing 1.8L. The 2.4l will just be a big ol motor in a small vehicle. My guess is that they will sell three of them. The other 449.997 sales will be the 1.8L. Ok a slight exageration.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
    Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
    OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
    OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
    OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
    Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
    Engine .... 2.2L vs 1.8L
    HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 128
    FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 27/35

    MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $17000 to $24000
    Standard safety features:
    ABS vs ABS
    2 airbags vs 6 airbags
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    "Now the isssue is to figure out 'Why' they did that intentionally."

    Maybe it's a case of once burned, twice shy. Or in the case of Toyota lately, thrice burned, four, five times burned? They are taking baby steps with new models for a while, after the Camry burps and the Tundra problems. They delayed the new HL a little bit, and it seems that new model has gotten off to a solid start, so hopefully they are on the right track with the baby steps thing.

    But who would have thought in 1997 that 10 years later Toyota would have to be taking baby steps to deliver new products without glitches.

    I bet they will sell a few more than just 3 of the 2.4L Corollas. As long as the least expensive 2.4L models stay under $20K sticker, which I expect they will manage to do.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    As long as the least expensive 2.4L models stay under $20K sticker, which I expect they will manage to do.

    Yes I assume that they probably will start the 2.4L Corolla's under $20K also. So that brings up this comparo..

    Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
    Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
    OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
    OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
    OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
    Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
    Engine .... 2.2L vs 2.4L
    HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 158
    FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 22/30

    MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $19000 to $24000
    Standard safety features:
    ABS vs ABS
    ..... vs VSC/TRAC
    2 airbags vs 6 airbags
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    There will be no SKS or automatic climate control for US 2009 models.

    OTOH...

    A good find from another site. Here is the 2009 Corolla presented on the Canadian website, these pics are not on the US website.

    Note the 6th pic from the left 2009 Corolla
  • You should be glad you're not buying "an economy car" 30 to 40 years ago. What was the typical engine size and HP ratings for those cars . . . around 1.2L and 60HP. You should consider yourself blessed at 158HP. It's rather amazing that we actually got around just fine, thank you, with those cars at that time, and could easily pick up speeding tickets on the freeways too.

    If you want a pocket rocket, I think you're looking at the wrong car!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Maybe they will get that in Canada or maybe the picture is an error. There is no text there describing features for Canada.
    I notice they don't show navi that's shown on all pictures of XLEs and XRSs on the US site.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I think TMS USA is sandbagging the debut. I'd put a small wager that the top of the line XLE has it all...for just under $25000.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I think TMS USA is sandbagging the debut. I'd put a small wager that the top of the line XLE has it all...for just under $25000.

    On the US website there is a pic of the XLE interior but taken from just the right angle that the steering wheel hides the 'Power' button. I think that there will an XLE trim and then an upgrade package to the XLE that adds Auto Climate and SKS, then another option ( NV ) that adds Navi, then another ( EJ ) that adds the JBL + BT.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    It seems really odd that they would hide that when they are not hiding navi and bluetooth. They almost always show pictures with every available option.
    It would also be strange if they offered all that and not offer leather on the XLE. It looks like only the XRS has leather.
  • Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla


    Uh let me guess! I believe Vehicle 'A' is either a Cadillac CTS or a Hummer H3.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Like the new Highlander, another disaster redesign. The only way they can sell this is to continue offering rebates. :sick:

    The new design is FANTASTIC! The only nitpicking I have is that it took too long, need 5 speed automatic i/o 4 speed, and I prefer Sirius to XM.

    Toyota has continued it's long history of improving an already good thing with the new Corolla design.

    It will continue to be a sales hit.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    quote Ken Bensinger
    The all-new 2009 Corolla, which Toyota Motor Corp. says will go on sale in the U.S. in late February, weighs about 140 pounds more than the 2008 model, adds 2 inches to its waistline and has six more horses under the hood, according to engineers. But it will show little to no improvement in fuel economy, and maybe even a small drop for some versions of the car.
    end
    2009 Corolla
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    It might as well be. I've yet to see a Corolla with VSC since this option was "available". Our distributor has never sent our store one with it and I don't recall seen one on allocations to other dealers. A few years back I did see a Corolla with the leather package going to a dealer in Maryland. My guess it was a special order. I don't expect to see very many XLE's with leather or XRS with leather either.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    And your point is?
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Not competitive in what way? Doesn't Toyota outsell Honda and Nissan combined? Camry outsells Accord and Altima, Heck I believe even the Corolla outsells the Altima, Corolla has been outselling the Civic the last three years. So where do you get this "not competitive" stuff? :confuse:
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    no one has said anything about the lack of body side moldings. The folks at the Camry and Avalon forums went apes**t when these became options. image
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Why are you surprised about something that's no surprise? Just more de-contenting by Toyota. Take something off, then put it back on--the options list or dealer add-on list. To be fair, this is not just Toyota; others are doing this too. The side moldings add cost and weight. Besides, Toyota doesn't have to pay to fix the door dings. :sick:
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    VSC was available in some regions on the current Corolla. I have seen it included on one of the 2 LE options packages in my area off and on the last couple years. The last time I checked and it was in the option group was about 4 months ago. When I checked a week ago, they had reshuffled options again and VSC was no longer in the option package.
    Who knows if it will be any more available on a 2009 than it was on a 2007 or 2008?
    I hate Toyota's lists options that are either never available or rarely available.
    I don't see any other automaker doing this. With other automakers, either the option is commonly available in a popular package or you can easily special order it, wait and get it later. With Toyotas you can't order anything outside of your region's normal packages and have any realistic expectation of ever receiving it.

    Are you sure leather is even an option on the 2009 Corolla XLE? They only picture leather on the XRS.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I'm not surprised by the lack of them. I am surprised no one on the thread mentioned anything about them. I guess they are more important to older folks than younger generations. Personally I like it without the body side moldings.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    The press room mentions leather as an available option on certain grades. I would take that to mean the XLE and XRS.

    "Additional options on select grades include JBL Audio system with AM/FM six-disc CD changer with eight speakers and Bluetooth®, Navigation system with AM/FM CD with MP3/WMA playback capability and XM® satellite radio with XM NavTraffic® capable with six speakers, leather-trimmed seats and shift knob, tilt and slide moonroof, VSC with TRAC and cut-off switch.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I would hope they don't do that. That is on the high side of the ladder. I'm thinking around $21,000.00 maybe $22,000.00 Let's face reality. You can get a Camry CE for around $17,990.00 just about anywhere. An LE for another $500-1000 more. So now you have customers begin to wonder whether dishing out 24k for a loaded Corolla is really a smart move. I think they should do the same thing they did with Scion, value packed at a value price. They need to to something that will turn the industry on its head price point wise.
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Here is my rock solid Sunday morning pick of the week, take it to the bank prediction...

    2.4L Corolla XLE with...
    Base: $19500 ( includes ABS, 6 airbags, VSC/TRAC, Alloys, Sunroof ) .. As opposed to a CE Camry for example

    Options:
    Leather ( LA ) .................... $1150
    JBL+BT ( EJ )....................... $1400
    Navi ( NV )........................... $1200
    SKS + Auto Climate ( SK ).. $1000
    Mats, etc ( Z1 )....................... $279
    Plus Dest, Processing...........- $700


    And to put this into perspective....

    The answer to the questions above, Vehicle "A" was the Gen 3 Camry ( 97 -01 ).

    The '09 Corolla is shorter than the Gen 3 by 10" overall but only 3" in WB, but it's almost the same size everywhere else. However the '09 Corolla...
    ..has more standard safety features,
    ..is more efficient than the 2.2L across the board,
    ..is far more powerful,
    ..is lighter,
    ..has more options such as JBL, BT, Navi,
    ..will cost less than an equivalent Gen3...7 yrars later

    I had two of the Gen3's and thought that they were great vehicles for what they were intended to do. If you told me back then that I could have more, more, more and more for a lesser price????
  • Both the Corolla and Matrix look like re-styling and engineering updates to the current generation and not "all new."

    How is this different than the 2008 Focus re-styling? Neither are fresh sheet of paper designs and very evolutionary. The older bones still show through.

    The Corolla with the newly available 2.4 liter sounds fun.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I guess they [body side moldings] are more important to older folks than younger generations.

    Eh? Is that because younger people have more money to pay for repairing door dings? Or some other reason? :confuse:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    One difference between the 2009 Corolla and 2008 Focus is that the Corolla claims to have an all-new chassis. I assume this means it has (finally) a fully independent rear suspension, but I didn't see any mention of that in the press release.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    And your point is?

    Mackabee


    What is my point?

    Is bigger better?
    Was the current Corolla too small?
    Does Toyota have a commitment to fuel economy and the environment?

    Mazda is making their new models lighter than previous at the same time increasing safety and fuel economy.

    VW Rabbit uses 6 speed automatic.
    Honda Civic uses 5 speed automatic.
    Nissan Sentra uses a CVT.
    Mazda3 uses 5 speed automatic.

    Hyundai uses a 4 speed automatic for it's Elantra and was loudly criticized for not being competitive.
    Subaru took a beating among the Subie fans for returning a 4 speed automatic and 5 speed manual in the new Impreza.

    I like the overall design and have no doubts it will sell quite well.

    However, I'm very surprised to discover that Toyota extended the development time for the new Corolla and then introduced it with no significant improvements in the powertrains.
    Toyota typically raises the bar with every redesign.
    Not this time.

    There is no free pass for Toyota.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Body side moldings are not useful. How many cars do you see with dings even though they have the moldings? All car doors do not all perfectly line up with the moldings on other cars.

    If you have a car that you want to protect from dings, you need to not park in tight spaces. No body side moldings needed.
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