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2009 Toyota Corolla

15657596162154

Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    The point is, the Corolla can get by just fine on 126 hp vs. Civic since Corolla is much lighter than the Civic. As long as the Corolla's weight stays down, no more power is needed. If it bulks up, then power will need to increase a bit to maintain status quo.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    The Corolla will gain 150-200 lbs., with adding safety features and upgraded crash protection.

    And it will make a more competitive car, on paper. Fortunately, Corolla has already has the people behind it. :)

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    Doc,

    I have a Sienna for hauling, have never used the fold down seats, let alone split fold in my 626 in 6 years.

    The Corolla back seat is 2 inches wider, but has 1 inch less leg room (Consumers Report). I'd call it a wash in terms of back seat room.

    Dash design is probably an individual thing, most people learn to adapt to such (like center dash on Yaris) quickly (Edmunds owner comments).

    When similarly equipped with additional air bags, ABS, VSC, and mats the price difference between Corolla LE and Civic LX (after incentives/rebates) is only $500 (Edmunds TMV), yet Corolla lacks remote entry. And Civic upgrades to 5A from 4A, higher owner satisfaction (Consumer Report), shorter/less mushy braking (Consumer Report/above comments), and more comfortable driving position (well documented).

    I'm eager to see what Toyota can do with the new Corolla, after six year its losing its grip on the competition.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    quality, resale, economy, are a wash with the two, so the only real differences are dynamic. Corolla doesn't have an issue with staisfaction, since sales are rising faster than Civic's.

    The Civic has a clear powertrain advantage, but is about 150lbs heavier.

    The Corolla and Civic are seperated more by mission than anything else. The Civic is sporty and more youthful, aggressive. The Corolla is softer, quieter, more conservative and genteel.

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    The LE has standard keyless remote. All this talk about horsepower is nonsense. Torque is what really matters. The two are pretty much equal in torque. The Corolla had better torque numbers until Honda went with the 1.8L then their torque numbers went up.
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Year to date sales (June 2007) of Corolla are 202,221 as compared to 197,303 in June of 2006. You would think that a car in its last year of the current designe would be down but that's not the case. What's the Civic's year to date sales? ;)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Year to date Civic sales (June 2007) 173,800, with hybrids 190,941. Sales up to June of 2006: 165,056, with hybrids 180,801.
    :shades:
    Mackabee
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I am sure $3+ a gallon gas and 40 mpg has something to do with that. ;)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I drive a rental Corolla and I found it had enough power as is. The engine needs to be replaced because it sounds loud and ugly when you try to use the available power.
    It was also not comfortable to sit and drive in. They need to address those issues before they worry about making it faster.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    not to mention the fact that the civic has no problems selling at the price point its at, and the corolla has more incentives and discounts.

    and just for kicks:

    reasons for buying the civic over the corolla.

    1.more efficient engine (gets similar mpg on a more powerful engine in a heavier chassis, a true testament to honda's engineering)

    2. Responsive, un-mushy braking.

    3. Better safety ratings and abs

    4. Handles worlds better, with much less body lean.

    5. highest end model give you disc brakes

    6. cooler styling. :P

    i know some of these things will be counteracted by the new corolla, but there are something that i don't think will change. (handling: it'll probably get better, but it wont be the benchmark like a few posters were asking in a few posts prior. When even car mags like car and driver state that the ride of the mazda 3 is a bit stiff, i doubt that toyota would want to get even remotely competative in that regard.)

    DrFill: the jetta can be had for 16k and offer much more content than the current corolla offers. Granted you pay for it with a loss in economy, but a 17k price tag saves you money on car payments, and gets you a longer warranty and the absolute best interior in the price range. Even the top level mazda 3 hatch can be had for less than 20k.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    For Civic in my area.

    Corolla currently offers $750-1000, but no rate.

    Very few economy cars sell without an incentive.

    There are reasons to buy either car, and they both are selling very well, so problems can't be that severe.

    Americans don't buy cars for handling. That is a niche market for economy cars. That's why Toyota ignores cutting-edge handling. ;)

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    true, but the civic has never NEEDED one. They move off lots pretty well if you ask me. I can't ever recall the corolla ever being like 'oh my god we NEED to get this car! its amazing!' whereas the civic got lots of that when it debuted.

    maybe the new generation will change that? me, i'm interested in the blade and how it will stack up.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    And this was without a rate. Civic also set a record the same month (May).

    I don't think either car has ever NEEDED an incentive. If ever a small car could go without, these two could. :)

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    ah, true, true.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Maybe more accurate to say, "Americans who buy Toyotas don't buy cars for handling." ;)
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    true again.

    i did like the old corolla gt-s, but it was still no crx. the supra was amazing; you could turbo that thing way past the factory settings and the block would hold up! (i've seen stock supra blocks hold up even after making over 600hp to the wheels! :surprise: )

    alas for what toyota could have been...
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    100-150k of the old CRX, with an updated interior/safety package.

    That would be easy as pie.

    Maybe this sub-$20k hybrid Honda is working on will be the Next CRX? Word on the street is the CRX is coming back. :shades:

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    Yes DrFill, the Honda car model is sporty, reliable, and economical vs the Corolla that is just reliable and economical. Ironically its Toyota that is supplying 1.8L turbo engines to Lotus that put out over 200 hp! Why not pass some of that down to the masses? :confuse:

    I could care less what the sales of each are, quality of available dealerships is vastly more important. Very weak dealer networks is what keeps me away from Mazda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, and all the domestics. :sick:

    I agree the torque is the key (and that Corolla's engine gets rough/noisy at high rpms). Just look at Rabbit TDI hp, torque, and 0-60 times. My oldest stepson just graduated from college and gave his 2001 5M, 120K mile Plymouth Neon to his 16 year old brother. I drove it about 130 miles today. Boy does that put all this Civic vs. Corolla back in perspective! The Neon is very crudely designed and built, with no low end torque from a 2.0L engine.

    I don't believe that Americans are totally insensitive to handling, good or bad. Its just not as high a priority here as in Europe or the Far East.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    But most of the Lotus Elise run on a lightly modified Toyota 1.8L with Dual VVTi-L, tuned to 190HP. This engine was previously fetured, in lesser tune, in the Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, and Celica GT-S.

    So we've had our chances with a sports engine from Toyota, and the masses rejected them. It's a great engine, if you are gonna run 5000 RPM all day, and it lead to class leading economy and acceleration numbers in MT 2005 small car comparison. ;)

    DrFill
  • I think the new Corolla will look like the new Scion Xd
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