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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • sr1945sr1945 Posts: 38
    Just have to ask and vent one more thing for all of us to chew on....

    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    My question is, " Is this all that Toyota could come up with in 6 years of the older model ? What in tar nations took so long just for this minor refresh anyway ?

    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?
  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    IF THE HONDA IS SOOO GREAT.......GO BUY A HONDA......IT IS REALY THAT SIMPLE
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    Not this again,

    I think I've responded to this, in this thread, at least 5 times previously. Your statement is one of those urban internet myths that 'if you see it on the internet it must be true' sort of things.

    Here are the real facts. This design was finished over 2-1/2 years ago. That's one full year before the the Civic debuted. Nothing changed since then. In Europe this design launched on time 18 mos ago. In Australia this design launched 12 months ago. In NA this design ran into the Tundra launch ( so it was pushed back a year ). Except for the powertrains this NA vehicle is the same one being sold in Europe and Austrailia.

    The delay had nothing to do with the Civic. It had only to do with being run over by the the Tundra. The current 'outdated' Corolla has been killing the wonderful new Civic for over a year now. There's no urgency to change especially since the Tundra had the entire spotlight.

    In addition, auto designs, tooling, production, logistics, supply decisions are made 4-7 yrs in advance. This isn't like repainting your room. It can't be changed 'on the fly' like this myth would have you believe. The 2012 3 yr 'refresh' is finished already. The Gen11 Corolla for 2014 is probably well under way and depending on how significant the changes, it may be closed to finished in some aspects.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Main Entry:
    en·thu·si·ast Listen to the pronunciation of enthusiast
    Pronunciation:
    \-ˌast, -əst\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1570

    : a person filled with enthusiasm: as a: one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit b: one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

    image
    image

    0-60 times

    8.5
    8.9
    oooohh. I'm impressed.
    image

    link title
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?

    Again like the other similar comments you are not viewing this like a business decision.

    It is just business, nothing more. It is not a beauty pageant.

    The Corolla intentionally is designed to appeal to the bulk of the buying public by being very very traditional, affordable and reliable. As a factory unit it is not intended for the 'zoom-zoom' or 'drifting' crowd. Those mods can be done but out of the factory it is nintended to appeal to Middle America ( Europe/Australia ) that just wants a competitive vehicle that they can forget about.

    Your statement above is trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Why? This vehicle is by far the most profitable small vehicle in the world. Why would anyone want to change that formula?

    It's only about business. Nothing more.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    You're probably right with the COTY but only with respect to Toyotas who won it. As far as I know COTY award winners from Honda such as the Civic and Fit were hugely succesful.

    The Fit is one of the rare cases in which the crtitics voting for the JCOTY and the buying public agreed. The Civic? It's been a forgotten car in Japan - you hardly ever see one in the streets over there.

    I know that this is a Corolla thread, but as a matter of interest, these are the Japan COTY winners since 2000:

    2000: Civic
    2001: Fit
    2002: Accord
    2003: Legacy
    2004: Legend (Acura RL)
    2005: Roadster (Miata)
    2006: LS460
    2007: TBA

    All good cars, except that among these only the Fit and Legacy have sold in any meangful volume in Japan. The Accord and Civic have been unbelievable flops in that country, barely exceeding 1000 units sold in a month. The last three selections are not intended to be high volume vehicles anyway.

    Ironically for my theory, when Toyota last won the JCOTY, they hit a big one in the sales. It was in 1999 with the Vitz/Platz/FunCarGo, known as the Yaris line in the rest of the world.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Interesting we have folks saying how terrible and inferior the 2009 Corolla will be compared to others in its class, but no one here has driven it yet, and in fact there have been no test drive reports published (to my knowledge). What we know is that the new Corolla will be roomier, have a more modern exterior design, have an "all new" chassis and suspension (whatever that means), have a more powerful base engine, and add some important standard features such as ABS, side curtain airbags, and a telescopic steering wheel. There's been a lot of consternation about the fact that a 5AT is hard to get on the car, the new base engine has "only" 132 hp, and it appears that the all-new suspension will still employ a twist-beam rear axle.

    Maybe we could wait to predict doom and gloom for the new Corolla until it's available to drive. Maybe it will have an improved ride, with superior smoothness and NVH for its class, and improved handling. Maybe the new engine will be well-suited for the car and the 4AT (and 5MT). Maybe it will have the best crash scores in its class. Maybe the driving position will (finally!) be comfortable for all or nearly all drivers. Maybe it will have even more of what most people are looking for in a small car, and will sell like hotcakes.

    Or maybe not. But it's a little early I think to be so negative about the car. There's plenty of time for that after we know what it's like to drive. ;)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    A very wise point you are making, backy.

    By the way, when the 10th-gen Corolla was released in Japan back in 2006 (NZE140 - different from the NA Corolla to be released, which is E150), all the critics fell asleep at its steering wheel. Me, I fell asleep before driving off the lot, and can barely keep my eyes open talking about it right now. And guess which car has been the number one selling in Japan since then (excluding the kei-class)?

    The hint is that its name starts with a "C." ;)
  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    I'm not surprised by very subtle changes in the base Corolla and that is a good business decision. With the disappearance of the Celica GT-S from the line-up, I expected some risk in the XRS model. If volumes are to remain consistent with the 05-06 XRS volumes, even a total flop would not hurt the bottom line significantly. This could have been a good entrance towards reintroduction of the Supra. I would have hoped for the 1.8 L offered in the XRS again with the hp upped to ~185 (similar to the Lotus tweaks), some weight reduction down to ~2500 lbs and a skip pad g rating of around 0.90. I believe these specs would warrant a price as high as $25 K if TRDRacing offered a few aftermarket parts.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I can't believe we are discussing TRDRacing and Corolla in the same sentence. Bit of an oxymoron don't you think?
    :shades:
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I can't believe we are discussing TRDRacing and Corolla in the same sentence. Bit of an oxymoron don't you think?

    Toyota Racing Development Racing?

    The history of the tuner movement and sport compact car enthusiasts has revolved around Japanese cars of Corolla size. Despite the Civic, Sentra, Impreza, Lancer are all more popular than Corolla to modify, I find no oxymoron with TRD and Corolla being linked.

    image

    TRD offers parts for racing and for street for nearly the entire range of Toyota vehicles.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Even with all the extra BLANK space on the right side of the screen, Edmunds still crops pictures into the narrow portion of the screen used for text.
    Great! (yes I'm being sarcastic)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    Correct - we got way more complaints about way oversized photos distorting the screen and making the text very hard to read.

    For those photos, we offer you a CarSpace photo album.

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  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Thanks.

    I can offer an additional 6 inches of blank space on my screen if your interested.

    Wait, now I can see the entire photo. Something different every visit at Edmunds. Yeah!

    What do y'all think about AWD if it were optional on the Corolla?
    I expect it would be plug and play since platform is closely shared between Matrix and Corolla.
  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    I think a better question would be why even offer an XRS model if it is not going to be competitive or better in power / weight ratio and handling to the Civic Si or Cooper S and get aftermarket support from TRD? Isn't the whole premise of an XRS badge for increased handling and power?
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    Since AWD has long been available with the JDM Corolla, it would be a marketing decision, not a technical decision for Toyota. I personally think it would be a good idea for Toyota to offer the Corolla AWD in North America. But Toyota actually doing it? I doubt it.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    I was actually kinda expecting they would use the Camry 2.4 in the new Corolla XRS, I just thought they would juice it up a bit from the Camry specs. 155-158 hp is pretty underwhelming given the size of the engine (and the fact that its fuel economy in current applications is no better than mediocre), and even Toyota itself can't claim a better time than 8.1 seconds to 60 mph? A couple years back C&D timed the current model witht he base 1.8 at 8.5 seconds with the stick. So that aint so good...

    But the problem is the 2.4 is technologically very dated now - it should have been updated for the Camry line by now too. This could have been the perfect opportunity to update this engine for both model lines, had Toyota only seized it.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • I read an article in Motortrend about the Sentra SE-R (with CVT) claiming 0-60 time was 7.4 seconds and average fuel economy was tracked at 22.4 mpg. The Government estimates are 24 city/30 hwy, 26 combined.

    With Toyota claiming a 0-60 in 8.1 seconds will the XRS's fuel economy be better? I think I read somewhere it was projected to be the same as the Camry's (21 city/31 hwy). Shouldn't it improve even just a little? :confuse:

    Will pricing for the XRS be around the same as the SE-R? A 2008 SE-R MSRP with destination and no options is $20,305. Fully loaded MSRP $22,660. In the XRS's favor, it has optional stability control, Nav, and bluetooth, which also fully loaded might make the price a lot higher.

    Any other Manufacturer coming out with a compact offered with a midsize 4 banger engine? I think it's a great idea on account of rising gas prices!
  • I was looking on the SEMA website and I was much more impressed with the Toyota 2009 Matrix (which was also unveiled at the show). I would be more inclined to go with that over the Corolla and I had never considered the Matrix before.
  • My last small car choice came down to Corolla vs Focus. I went with the Focus ST with the "big" 2.3 liter engine for better driving dynamics. It is more fun than a daily drive should be (or typically is) and has been bullet proof reliable. The prior Corolla had a wonderfully refined interior for a small car but no particular sense of direction. Other than the independent rear suspension, the packaging and layout were very similar. Looking at the refreshes by both Toyota and Ford for 2008, the Corolla is more successful. While an enthusiast had reason to shop the Focus before and ignore the Corolla, now the roles are reversed. Ford dropped the 2.3 liter and Toyota added a bigger 2.4 liter engine as an option. From experience it is not just horsepower but torque that makes the driving difference. I suspect the 2.4 liter might be a pretty fun little car for every day driving. I'd still like independent rear suspension but apparently the Matrix/Vibe will offer IRS from the AWD version in the sport FWD versions. I'm not a big fan of Toyota styling, but the Corolla is not a bad update. When its making so much money, Toyota is not going to mess too much with the cash cow.
  • The all new 2009 10th generation Toyota Corolla is exactly that, all new. It is not a refresh like the 2008 Ford Focus. From various sources I've spoken with and various articles I've read from overseas the all new Corolla is greatly improved in every way. According to Toyota it officially goes on sale February 11, 2008. North America is the last major market to get the new Corolla.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    How is the 4 speed automatic transmission different and improved compared to the previous 4 speed automatic transmission?
  • sr1945sr1945 Posts: 38
    If you take a good look at both the 9th and 10th generation real close you will see its a refresh only. The manufacture, and a few individuals that buy into this all new hype may say its all new, but not us who have their eyes open.

    ;)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    I have not seen (taken apart) the 10th-gen US-spec Corolla, so I cannot comment on how far advanced it is if compared with the last generation.

    However, the history of the Corolla is that its most amazing advancement is in precisely where it does not typically meet the eyes nor does it show in the catalog specs. Those in the know, especially those of us who have worked in the automotive manufacturing and engineering, were blown away when the 9th generation Corolla was released. The way it has been engineered and assembled was a science of the maximum ROI while preserving other important aspects such as economy and reliability. Such engineering and manufacturing techniques do not show up in obvious manners, but they are precisely what makes this company called Toyota successful. I used to work for a competitor of Toyota, and I remember hearing a senior manager say, "There is no way we can imitate this - amazing."

    Horsepower, how many gears in a transmission, the design of suspension, etc., are easy. Anyone can come up with those with little efforts. Maximizing the ROI while preserving quality - now that's a know-how few have mastered.

    I repeat - it's a piece of cake for automotive engineering and manufacturing folks to come up with lofty-sounding machine pieces that make so-called auto enthusiasts salivate. What is difficult is to make your product in such a way to make your company a lot of money without sacrificing quality.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    It's not a refresh. Take a look at the current 08 and the upcoming 09:

    image

    2009

    image

    The 09 is 2.5 inches wider, the roof line is lower, the interior is totally different. So how can you say this is not a re-design?


    image
  • sr1945sr1945 Posts: 38
    Both photos look similar, and not something to get all googie eyed over after waiting almost 6 years.

    Waiting almost 6 long years and you would have thought it would be something to write home to mother about, but not this. No way. Looks like a refresh pure and simple. At least they could have given us a better interior like the European corolla.

    Those super dupper after thought, simple tack on molding look cheap and if Toyota could not find a way to give the look without a tack on, then something is wrong with the design team.

    Honda civic was an interesting totally different make over, this corolla is not.

    I took my deposit back because I was hoping for a nice change, a very nice interior like photos that I saw prior to SEMA and then Toyota gave the American market a dumb down version instead. Nope, this is a refresh only.

    If those that think this is any different, than you are easly taken by the hype from the marketing con from Toyota.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is pretty consistent across all Toyota's products.

    Both the platforms and the engines/drivetrains have about a 10 yr life cycle consisting of two generations each. The platform and drivetrain life cycles often overlap by about 5 yrs.
    Body ( yr )
    1
    2
    3
    4...refresh
    5
    6...MCE ( Mid Cycle Enhancement )
    7
    8...refresh
    9
    10

    In Feb we will be starting yr #7 of this 'general' platform. As mackabee noted there are enough new changes in the platform of this Gen10 that the MCE could be considered 'all new'.

    The MCE should have been done last spring but was pushed back. Does that mean that the current Gen will last only 4 yrs? None of us know.

    Since noone in the public has seen the new model in its various forms I'd say your presumptions are somewhat premature. It's going to be a killer IMHO.

    Oh btw I think that there will be a euro-styled model but the public will be asked to pay euro-style money for it also.$24000-$27000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But as we noted several times previously this is not where the money is. The money is in $17000 Base models. For all the 'needs' and 'desires' of the enthusiasts high-end low volume models are for the niche players. For some reason you think Toyota made a 'mistake' in this design. How about they did it intentionally in order to generate more volume ( profits ) from the general population.

    In the end it's only about money. Whichever company has the most at the end of the year is the winner.
  • lls57lls57 Posts: 57
    I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the 09! I have an 03 with 90k miles, and am ready for a new car. I am waiting to see what it looks like in person, and if it's nice as it looks in pictures, will be getting it. I like the idea of good gas mileage, and some of the niceties, so I'll probably look at the XLE.
  • lls57lls57 Posts: 57
    I was at the Arizona Auto Show yesterday, and they had the 09 Corolla there to see. It was marked prototype, and it was locked, though. It must have been a base model, it had hand crank windows. Having seen it in person, I have to agree that it looks a lot like a mini Camry.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    (Mackabee banging head against wall) It's NOT A REFRESH! Go buy a Civic if you think it's so cool.
    :shades:
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