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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • For a couple of people who hate Toyota as much as they do. They really do spend an awful lot of time on this forum don't they.

    I have a friend who bought a wrist watch that had more "standard options " then the rest. Like water resistant, stop watch capability, date and illumines dial all for this for only $19.95. Pretty much did everything except keep the correct time. Which by the way
    was why he purchased a watch in the first place.

    Corolla may not offer all the "standard options" on there vehicles as some of the others. But they do offer a track record of reliability and resale value. Which is the main reason I bought the car in the first place . Corolla offers all the amenities as the others. But only if I want them. Simple but sound concept
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    "Haven't seen the Gen 10 Corolla, but can't believe its the same interior size as my '97 Camry"

    I think this claim will turn out to be a "trick of the numbers", in that interior passenger volume will be similar, but with a higher roof helping to make that number. Therefore, knee and shoulder space will be more limited than in your '97, especially in the back seat, but the claim of "the same interior space as the '97 Camry" will technically be true.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • In the recent issue of Motortrend the Toyota Camry beat the new Accord and the new Malibu. Lets not be so one-sided here people. Lets present all the facts not just the ones that you want to present to make your unfair, biased case. Lets be fair and balanced if we can please. It's obvious there are a lot of Toyota haters on this thread and that's ok. Before passing judgment on the all new 10th gen Corolla, lets drive it first. Everyone here is judging this car before they have even seen it or driven it. It will be on sale for everyone to see very shortly.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    No one has picked up on what I thought was the most important comment I'd made:

    "looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup (rather) than to compete".

    This points to the GM-like mentality I saw in the 80's as a consultant that, like so many other large organizations, they couldn't see outside their own walls. Middle managers competing with each other, upper management busy trying to manage the middle managers and internal politics. Everyone fiddling while Rome burns.

    Toyota hopes that their name sells Corolla. After years of waiting, the new Corolla (like the current one has aged into) is an entirely unremarkable product. Nothing so far indicates that it exceeds any competitor on any major point. How dull! The new Corolla even looks almost identical to the current .

    The relatively new Camry just finished in last place in two recent Edmunds comparison tests, behind Malibu in both cases! And Toyota does not want to compete on price/content value (would tarnish their already fading reputation as they'd get lumped with the hungry Koreans instead of the much more elite Japanese).


    In all of this you've missed about 2 month's worth of posts. Including the Camry ( btw the Camry finished first ahead of both the Accord and Malibu in Motor Trend's most recent comparo of the new models together ) Toyota has intentionally gone for the center of the generic, auto-as-appliance subsegment for it's two main vehicles.

    It isn't a mistake that both the Camry and Corolla often seem bland in comparison it's intentional for several reasons, volume, volume, volume. Everything in the auto industry revolves around volume because the intial 'costs of entry' are so high. It's no mistake because this recognition of what the typical driver wants also where the highest volume occurs in a nornal distribution curve; +/- one standard deviation from the mean encompasses 68% of a population being studied, supplied, counted. After that the curve slopes shapely down.

    From Wikipedia...Standard Deviation and confidence intervals
    [edit] Standard deviation and confidence intervals

    Dark blue is less than one standard deviation from the mean. For the normal distribution, this accounts for about 68% of the set (dark blue) while two standard deviations from the mean (medium and dark blue) account for about 95% and three standard deviations (light, medium, and dark blue) account for about 99.7%.About 68% of values drawn from a normal distribution are within one standard deviation σ > 0 away from the mean μ; about 95% of the values are within two standard deviations and about 99.7% lie within three standard deviations. This is known as the "68-95-99.7 rule" or the "empirical rule."

    To be more precise, the area under the bell curve between μ − nσ and μ + nσ in terms of the cumulative normal distribution function is given by


    What Toyota has done is hog the center of this segment by cutting costs to offer the least costly vehicle to the mjority of the buyers. In doing so it has turned a $17000 vehicle into a fabulous money maker. Your biased references ' as they'd get lumped with the hungry Koreans instead of the much more elite Japanese).' show a complete lack of understanding of what the Corolla has been til now and where it belongs. It is a basic low-cost rock-solid people-mover that makes money. Nothing else. It has alway been this with a few temporary offshoots. BTW Toyota is the elite Japanese ( worldwide ) maker simply because it makes the most money. This is only about business. Nothing else.

    This is where your entire reference to GM fails. In the end all the comparo's are only beauty pagaents. In the end there is only one single metric that matter. Which products, which company makes the most money at the end of the year? By cutting costs and offering a vehicle that appeals to the masses rather than to the enthusiasts Toyota has been able to grow this name to the No 1 nameplate in the entire history of the world. It sells because it meets the needs of the masses. Because it meets the needs of the largest part of the masses it sells more than the others. Because it sells more volume than the others it has lower total costs than the others meaning it can be sold at a lower price and it can make big profits at a low transaction price.

    Finally everybody has to eat. There is no way one company can sell an entire market. The others recognize that they [ a) can't b) choose not to ] compete in the generic people-mover subsegment ( where all the volume is ) so they make vehicles which appeal to different ( lower volume ) subsegments. But then their costs can't be as low as Toyota's because their volume is not great enough so they have to make their vehicle appeal in ways that are more costly.

    In the end everybody is happy with each in their rightful places. These are business people afterall and their only concern is the bottom line. If Toyota has staked out the center why fight them down in the trenches of $17000? Let Toyota make money at $17000 due primarily to volume. The others will make money in other areas.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I think this claim will turn out to be a "trick of the numbers", in that interior passenger volume will be similar, but with a higher roof helping to make that number. Therefore, knee and shoulder space will be more limited than in your '97, especially in the back seat, but the claim of "the same interior space as the '97 Camry" will technically be true.

    Actually the width and the height of both vehicles, the 97 Camry and the 09 Corolla, are the same or very minorly different. It's the length that's different by about 11" iirc meaning a somewhat smaller trunk and shorter wheelbase. Legroom probably is less in the new Corolla. Thus the interior room will be smaller primarily front to back.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    kdhspyder, you have said it all for me. Brilliant. And thanks. :)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    So, wait, regardless of the height of the Gen 4 Camry vs. Gen 10 Corolla, exactly where has Toyota or any of the mags said the interior is going to be the same size as the Gen 4 Camry? Sometimes, I feel like rumors or speculation get legs on these forums, and that's not a statement I remember reading....
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    Correct - they still don't have the side crash results for the Scion xB as yet.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Maybe we could talk more about cars, specifically the 2009 Corolla, here vs. who hates Toyotas or loves Hondas, or why Toyota isn't like GM? And maybe we could allow for both positive and not so positive opinions about the 2009 Corolla here, rather than labelling people who don't love every aspect of the car "Toyota haters"? Thanks.
  • It seems like some people are forming rather strong opinions (particularly negative) about the new 2009 Toyota Corolla without having seen it in person or driven it. And yes, you sound like a Toyota hater. From your current and previous posts you seem very biased against Toyota, particularly the Corolla. Opinions are fine but you beat a dead horse as someone noted earlier.
    Back to my original point, DRIVE IT FIRST then after that you will be able to form a more intelligent opinion that others here can respect. Thank you.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I will drive the Corolla before forming a final "consider/not consider" opinion. But please tell me, why is it unacceptable to form an initial opinion--in this case a negative one--of the new Corolla based on a lot of info, including several reviews/test drives by professionals, but it is fine for others to form an initial opinion without driving the car, if that opinion is positive?

    And why is it "beating a dead horse" to discuss concerns about the new Corolla, but not beating a dead horse to continually put forth (the same) positive opinions about it?

    And if you think I am a Toyota hater, you really aren't reading my posts, such as when I opined recently about how the Corolla of the '90s was probably the best car in its class--not just the best-selling car, the best car. How could I hate Toyota but say it can make the best car in its class? And why would someone who hates Toyota buy a Prius (but unfortunately have to let it go when it could not be delivered in time)? And why would someone who hates Toyota be eyeing the 2011 Prius as their next mom/pop car? :surprise: See why it's best to stick to cars vs. making incorrect gnereralizations about people?
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    So you really didn't buy a Prius or any other Toyota. Sorry backy, but you do sound like a Toyota hater to the rest of us.
    Mack :shades:
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    I am not in favor of labelling people, either. We should focus on the substance of each argument, and leave out a lump sum approach that unfairly overgeneralizes each contributor into this and that category.

    I don't think that critical comments necessarily make anyone a hater, nor do supportive arguments necessarily make someone a cheerleader.

    The Corolla is in some ways a paradox par excellence in the auto world, which seems to evoke various kinds of emotion. Let's debate the car (and its business model) hard - but we need not unfairly label anyone while doing so.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Getting back to the topic in hand. I have some info on the 09 Matrix for all of you. Love it or hate it it's still going to be a very nice car even with the 4spd auto. ;)
    One thing I noticed on the Mechanical and Performance section that has not been mentioned at all is this:
    Active Torque Control with Electronic coupling. Sounds like Honda's ATTS system on their awd models and Prelude SH doesn't it?
    Other than this system everything else is pretty much what we know about the car.
    Cruise control and VSC are optional. I'm surprised they didn't make the cruise standard.
    No pricing yet.
    Stay tuned.
    :shades:
  • And why is it "beating a dead horse" to discuss concerns about the new Corolla, but not beating a dead horse to continually put forth (the same) positive opinions about it?

    Posting a concern once is the way to establish a "legitimate concern". Posting that same concern a couple of times could be considered a way to establish "serious concern". However posting that same concern over and over is like.... well... "beating a dead horse"
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    I own Toyota (3rd one) and their dealer is the best in town, so I want to stay with them, but Gen 10 doesn't go where I wanted it to go (wider, heavier, safety numbed versus a 21st century economical version of a BMW 2002).

    I have zero respect for Motortrend. It is fully bought and paid for by advertisers. Car and truck of the year award winners are easier to predict than the weather (whose turn is it that has a hopefully market impacting new being released). Some of the past winners were worse than laughable.

    I rely on sources like Consumers Union and Edmunds.

    I will drive it as I'll be in the market this year. But have had a bad experience with a first year Camry ('97) and don't expect any deals on a first year product. Might as well go with a Scion xD.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    I'm writing from a consumer's perspective, not the manufacturer's. So I don't care about marketing strategies or which company generates the greater profits.

    I had a '97 Camry and it was dull to the max (until the tranny went at 132k miles). We've all waited a long time for Gen 10 (wanted to buy another Toyota) and have seemingly gotten very little.

    All Gen 10 seems to do is to bring Corolla up to current industry standards. Its not faster, innovative, bigger, or safer than anything else out there. Hopefully it will be cheaper and maintain good reliablity.

    Again, I have zero respect for Motortrend (better named Advertising Moneytrend).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    FYI I've owned 3 Toyotas, including 2 Corollas. I guess I must really hate them! :surprise:

    OTOH, I don't sell Toyotas for a living either. ;)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,549
    . Its not faster, innovative, bigger, or safer than anything else out there.

    And why should it? If it meets sales and profit targets of the mfr., there is no need for them to go extra mile and make it better than necessary. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I know I wouldn't, for many reasons, but I totally respect their ways. My regret is that people don't share my criteria and Toyota marketing practices simply drive me nuts, but it is completely different issue. Their job is to make car at price that would both make best profit and sell. Corolla fits that profile. They do that consistently. Many others could do only one thing at the time - some either.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    That's about the essence of it. This is a huge and varied market. Each company chooses to produce a product that for it will make the most money. That's all that can be said.

    No one product will appeal to all buyers, some will be dissatisfied, some bored, others left wanting and for many it will just meet the need perfectly. All this is intentional.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    So wait, your bad experience with a first year product came after 132,000 miles on the odometer?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Love it or hate it it's still going to be a very nice car even with the 4spd auto. ;)

    Is there any Toyota that you would not say "is a very nice"?
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    As one who is an advertising executive for a monthly consumer electronics magazine, I can assure you that product review results are influenced by display advertising. Although ideally there is a wide line of demarcation between the business side and the editorial side of the ledger in the consumer magazine business, in reality, and pragmatically, this is not the case. You simply do not tick off an account such as Toyota, Honda, et. al., as I assure you their respective Advertising Agency will retaliate buy not buying space in the magazine.

    So, contributing editors or staff editors have to walk a very fine semantic line in the "word smithing" of reviews. It is an art form.

    From my 20 years of experience in magazine display advertising, I place no credence on any reviews of any product in an advertising-supported magazine. Display advertising space, and resultant revenue, is what pays the bills, and salaries, of most publisher's employees; it's not the subscription income nor the newsstand sales income, as both barely cover the printing and mailing costs of a monthly magazine.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Well, I got you beat! I've owned 3 Camrys, 3 Corollas, 1 Vanwagon Le, 1 MR2, 1 Scion tC and a couple of Integras and 1 Prelude in the mix. Loved them all but my favorite was and still is the MR2. Yes I do sell them for a living and I love them so much that even my underwear has a Toyota logo.
    :P
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    There's been a few "dogs" in the line up. The Echo comes to mind. Ugly car that was supposed to be a $9999.00 car but at that price you didn't even get a/c. The Tercel in the last couple of years was overpriced, the Paseo was not a beauty queen either, it was a sporty Tercel. The T-100 4 cylinder was a disappointment also. Overall it's a winning lineup.
    :shades: :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    This IS the future vehicles thread: obviously it is a place for people to speculate, and once the car is at dealerships and available for us to drive, this topic will move out of the Future Vehicles board altogether.

    mackabee: you think the torque control is for the XRS models, because the 2.4 is torquey enough to cause torque steer? That would be my guess. Can you tell if it is standard or optional?

    Edit: don't be too hard on my little Echo now! That car is a precision instrument for commuting and saving gas, and there is no better car out there for those two purposes, IMO. My Matrix by contrast uses almost 20% more gas under the same conditions. And is harder to park downtown (bigger).

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    It's standard and I just noticed it's on the awd model. Don't know if it will be on the front wheel drive. We have a bunch on the allocation list and I just happened to pick the one with the VSC as I thought it would be the XRS but it's only the S model.
    Mack
    The Echo and the Yaris are two Toyotas we can sell for full MSRP and make minimum commission. I tell customers I would soon sell it at invoice and make it a quick sale so I can move on to the next. The 3 door Yaris is actually kind of "cute" a lot of chicks are buying them. The sedan not so much as it's just as much as a Corolla when you option it out.
    Mack
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    We've been a foreign car family since the mid '70's and after owning 4 Toyota's, 2 Nissan's, 1 Mazda and 1 Honda, all are great cars for the segment that they're in. My newest car, the '06 Civic LX, drives much nicer than the Sentra it replaced which drove better than the Corolla's it replaced. We loved our Camry's but quality issues turned us away from Toyota. I can't say enough good things about the Civic except that it drives differently than the Corolla's...not any better but different.
    Am I a "Toyota hater" or a "Honda lover" or whatever label y'all want to use, don't matter much to me. We buy what we like considering the best ride against the best cost and we just like this size car. Will be helping the oldest get her 1st car this fall and we'll test drive everything out to see what she likes best. Everyone will get a fair shot as I know she has no preference about any manufacturer.
    Hopefully from now on in this forum, the "name calling" will stop and understand one thing...most of us in Edmunds.com are car lovers and always cross read different models that we like. "One size does not fit all"!

    The "Sick" Sandman :sick:
    (healing from back surgery)
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I don't think anyone here put a label on you. There's two other guys that just beat a dead horse to death!~so it gets monotonous. Just another month and we'll have the car here.
    Mack
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    That is really hard to to--beating a dead horse to death!

    Here's a general question for everyone: in what ways is the 2009 Corolla a leader amongst its competitors? Here's a chance to espouse all the best features of the new Corolla.
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