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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I guess you might have guessed these two...

    Sales and profits. :shades:
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    "Sales and profits"

    Which translates to the car that MOST people like/want, compared to other cars that are higher priced, quicker, better road feel, or whatever. The cars that are quicker, etc. are bought by fewer people, including car enthusiasts, who sometimes seem to HATE Toyota.

    Personally, I have no problems with the other cars in this class, but my preference (like most of the world) is the Corolla.

    I would bet that the new '09 Corolla will outsell everything in it's class, and maybe even beat the top sellers in the midsize class, especially if the gasoline prices continue to climb. Consider that the current Corolla is 6 years old and still beat everything in it's class in sales and profits in 2007, and many of the same enthusiasts hated this generation too.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    Why does it surprise you? There are tons of examples where product that is not the best in any measure getting best sales - for various reasons. All it needs to do is deliver exact mix of certain traits and price.

    Why Corollas rule the world, not some cars that may be better? Most people have no clue what "good handling" really means. They want fuel economy, acceptable performance and stellar reliability. They probably could not care less about styling or interior as long as it's not terrible. They want as much utility as you could expect from that size, so pouches, compartments and trunk must have good size.
    There are a few other cars that fit that description. Corolla happens to be either less expensive (from Civic) or have better name, at least for now (Elantra). The press and the enthusiasts love another one (Mazda3 - so do I), but average Joe thinks tight suspension is bad, mpgs are only so-so and the car costs more on average. Moreover, Toyota figured out the pricing and production such that practically every unit they sell is profitable, even last one.

    Look around - is there anybody else who could do that on consistent basis? Honda perhaps, Hyundai seems to be getting there, but not quite. Domestics gave up fifteen years ago, when Blazers and Explorers ruled the road - today they are paying price for that neglect.

    Corolla does not need to be better in anything - as long as there is perception that it's all that Joe/Jane Customer need and they agree to pay asking price - it's all that matter. And no amount of anti-Toyota emotion will change it.

    By the way - I hate the way they drive, I hate they way they package them, and I despise Southeastern Toyota Dealers. The hell will freez over before I would buy one. But that's completely beside the point. I know I'm minority and I can live with that as long as there is somebody making cars for me. I wish Toyo good luck as long as they don't destroy those who make my cars.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    Here's a general question for everyone: in what ways is the 2009 Corolla a leader amongst its competitors? Here's a chance to espouse all the best features of the new Corolla. :confuse:

    Not sure how many more times this "Corolla Forum" can express why we think the Corolla is " a leader amongst its competitors" or how many more times you can express why the Corolla isn't. However it is really a moot point. We will continue to purchase the Corolla because we feel it is the best value for the money, and you will continue to purchase the vehicle you like for the same reasons. And this is really a good thing because If everybody liked the same vehicle. Nobody could afford it.
  • Brilliant post [dino001], and I really appreciate your analogy here. You said "By the way - I hate the way they drive, I hate they way they package them,".
    Could you explain what you mean by this statement?

    I think someone else has posted another remarkable reply [kdhspyder], so thank you for that as well.

    I don't understand why people are crying wolf about the corolla plain Jane appearance, performance...etc. Not everybody wants to be an enthusiast having a pleasure when cornering and driving fast!! Although, I would not label anybody with "XXXXXX hater" because Hate is a very strong word.

    I own an 06 Camry and 2 Hondas, and I can tell you the Camry kicks Honda's butt in the comfort department. I would expect that my next car, after I sell my aging accord, a COROLLA!! :D
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    Many people claim that Honda Civic, Mazda 3....and other "small" cars are better equipped and superior to Toyota Corolla.
    Well, on paper all these cars might be superior; however, in real world Toyota Corolla is the leader. Why? Because:
    - It has 1.8l engine that has enough power to support the weight of the car. Many will say that Mazda and Honda have more horses, but if you look at the hp/weight ratio of the car, Corolla is extremely well balanced. It is not a race car, buy has excellent pick up and go power for its engine and excellent gas millage.
    - It has 1.8l engine that has newer technology for improving gas millage that other companies do not have.
    - Fuel economy is steady thru out life of the car. If it says 32-38mpg, it will be like that for a very long time. I used to have Tercel with 1.5l engine - car has 250,000miles on it and it still does the same fuel economy.
    - It has comfortable ride that might not be as sporty as Mazda 3; however, the car takes you from point A to point B with pleasure.
    - It can have kind of sporty ride - if you can make turns with 70mph with other cars, Corolla will allow you to make these same turns with 60-65 miles. If you ask me that is more than enough. I and average Joe are not speed racers. Plus, I do not want to get tickets for just showing off how fast is my car.
    - Transmission (I can talk only for 9th gen. Corolla, but I think 10 gen. will be the same) is extremely well fitted to this 1.8l engine. I can go 80mph in 2900rpm. Can you do that with Honda Civic and Mazda 3?
    - Real World Reliability of Toyota Corolla is unmatched.
    - Many people that have Toyotas like to work on their cars (change oil for instance). It is much easier to work on Corollas than on Civics or Mazda 3.
    - Materials used in Corolla are slightly nicer quality than Civic (I do not know about Mazda 3).
    - No blind spots in Corolla.
    There other small things that make Corolla leader in its class. Many people have negative opinion about Toyota Corolla or Toyota cars. Some of them might have had bad experience with Toyota, but majority of people love Toyota brand.
    It is a personal choice what car you wanna drive; however, if you want comfortable ride, excellent gas millage, and superior reliability Toyota Corolla or I should say Toyota product is the right choice.
    I do not say that other cars are not good; however, for the money and YOUR TIME Toyota is the way to go. "Your time" - I mean time spend in dealerships. :sick: or :D
  • irismgirismg Posts: 345
    Hear, hear! Not everybody wants to be an "enthusiast", yet the 5 or 6 people who complain about Corolla on these forums give the impression of a majority. A lot of people, like myself, merely want to turn the key and go in relative comfort, and not have to WORRY about anything. Corolla, my 10-year-old, included, has done that very, very well, and that's why it sells, in my opinion.

    Did anybody happen to see the test drive PBS' MotorWeek did on of the '09 Corolla? I can't find it online. If so, what did they think of it?
  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    I live in North East Ohio and it was on our PBS station last week end. They featured the XRS with leather and navigation along with most of the available options. I thought it was a very favorable report ( almost always are ). The new Corolla is a sharp looking vehicle with a ton of options available. It will be your choice to either spend a little with the basic models or go nuts and buy the vehicle they were featuring on TV with all the options. They didn't have any prices available at the time of the report :shades:
  • The Motorweek review of the 2009 Corolla aired on PBS last weekend (Jan 5th and 6th). They only presented a test drive of the XRS trim. The review was a very positive one.

    I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about the Corolla. It is reknowned worldwide for high quality, reliability, and dependability. These are the PRIMARY reasons I'm buying a Corolla. It will be going on sale in about a month and I can't wait to test drive one!
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    This is motorweeek review. They do not say anything new....
    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2718a.shtml
    Enjoy it.
    :)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Yes, Motorweek always gives positive reviews. They have never given a critical review of any car I've seen.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    One question about the XRS with leather and navigation and most of the other available options: how much will it cost? I would expect well over $20k. I've seen estimated price ranges for the 2009 Corolla in the press in the realm of "$16-23K", so I'd venture to guess the loaded XRS will be up near $23k.

    Second question: what else could I buy with my $23K? Just thinking...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Good post. Some comments:

    - The 1.8L engine is all-new yet manages to get only 1 mpg better (EPA overall) than older, larger (and more powerful) designs from its competitors. So what is the value of that new technology?
    - I would stack the real-world reliability of the Civic against that of the Corolla any day. Also, since the 2009 Corolla is a new design, with a new engine and new chassis, we don't really know what the reliability will be. History is on its side, but history didn't help the new Camry on that score.
    - Have you sat in the new Corolla and comparied its materials quality to that of the Civic, or other competitors? I can say from personal experience with the Civic and the current Corolla that the materials quality in the Civic is superior. Perhaps the new Corolla has improved there, but I haven't sat in it yet.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I thnk that range is probably accurate.

    At $23K for a fully loaded Corolla of whatever trim a buyer could get any number of other vehicles but these $23K Corollas will probably be few and far between. 1 o/o 100 in toto? If a buyer really wants a loaded Corolla it will be available. But there will be 99 other buyers looking more at the lower to mid trims in the $17-$20K range. The option is there for the buyer(s) who really wants that specific vehicle.

    If like the past XRS it doesn't generate enough volume it will be dropped. That just depends on the public. The bread and butter remains the Base, LE and standard S models.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Agreed. But when a mag reviews the top-line, loaded Corolla, I think its price point needs to be kept in mind. There's lots of nice cars available out there for around $20k.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Accuracy is important..
    The 1.8 is not all new. It's currently out in the xD and it's a vast improvement over the older version. It's new only in that it adds dual VVT-i.
    The Civic is equally reliable for sure. I'll bet on history as regards the Corolla.
    Point well taken on the interiors. Yet... this is one of the flimsiest counter-arguments against the Corolla. It always has had very middle of the road looks and feels....and for the recent past that has meant nothing to the buying public.

    We're back to the same point. Yes there might be superior handling and equipment on other vehicles....no one is denying that. Nevertheless there is a HUGE segment of the buying public for which these mean ... NOTHING!!!! As a couple of posters above noted these may actually be negatives.

    Toyota has identified its core clientele. After 30 yrs you'd think so. It knows this segment, these buyers and what they want. In order to sell the most and keep the costs as low as possible it must build and sell generic. All the others have their places also. That's all that can be said.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Again these reviews are just beauty pagaents. Nothing more. The articles are interesting to read but they matter little if they're reviewing a $23K vehicle and 99% of the public is looking for an $18K vehicle.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Here is a direct quote from Toyota's press release when the 2009 Corolla was unveiled:

    The Standard, LE and XLE models will be equipped with an all-new 1.8-liter engine.

    I agree, though... accuracy is important. ;)

    Funny though how no one objects when you bring up the same points (unrelated to this particular thread) again and again and again. OK for pro-Corolla points I guess, not if they have an alternate opinion.
  • The 1.8 liter Dual VVT-i engine that will appear in the new Corolla is all new according to Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc executives. Here is a video of Tim Morrison, marketing manager for Toyota Motor Sales USA conducting a media preview of the all new '09 Corolla in Raleigh, NC back sometime in Sept or Oct 2007(copy and paste please):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCEtqzgSrBE
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    Some of the noteworthy MSRP $23,000 options (excluding cheaper ones):

    Sporty:
    C30, Civic Si, Eclipse, MazdaSpeed3, Miata, Mini, Rabbit GTI, Scion tC TRD, Solstice

    Family sedans:
    Accord, Altima, Avenger, Aura, Azera, Camry, Fusion, Impala, Jetta, Legacy, Malibu, Optima

    SUVs:
    Forester, Impreza, Outback, Matrix, Mazda5, RAV4, PT Cruser turbo, Rogue

    High mileage:
    Civic Hybrid, Prius

    In other words, at least 31 interesting/viable alternatives for $23k that make a 2.4L Corolla look a bit silly IMO. But I've always had a hard time buying say a loaded Corolla when I can get a reasonably equipped Camry for the same money.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    Absolutely! I expect better from a Toyota. I drive conservatively and do all the recommended maintenace. I put lots of miles on a year, doing 90% on rural roads. And after 30 years of owning cars I've never suffered that much mechanical failure.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    Another response from the manufacturer's perspective (as if they need help from any of us to defend them). I'm writing from the consumer's viewpoint.

    Consumers have waited a long time for the biggest car manufacturer in the world to update the most popular model in history and all we got was a "catch-up" product.

    If Toyota shares your opinions, then their concerns is about themselves and not their customers. That's the most natural response in the world and IMO very shortsighted. Modern busines models all point to quality and innovation as the keys to long term success. Toyota quality has taken a down turn, and Gen 10 is not innovative.

    So yes, as a customer I'll drive a Gen 10, but ultimately vote with my wallet and at this point, after owning 3 Toyotas, I doubt it will be for a 2009 Corolla.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    The new Corolla has a lot of problems, but that isn't one of them.
    There are many cars that overlap prices when you compare loaded models of one with less equipped versions of another vehicles. What matters if how pricing is when they are "comparably equipped."
    A Civic EX-L with Nav costs more than a Honda Accord LX, but some people still buy the Civic EX-L with Nav because they would rather have the equipment on the Civic than the bigger Accord with less options.
    Other people would rather have a bigger car with less options, so they take the Accord LX instead.
    Nothing strange about that.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    Another response from the manufacturer's perspective (as if they need help from any of us to defend them). I'm writing from the consumer's viewpoint.

    Perhaps you meant to say, "from an enthusiast's viewpoint."

    Trust me. As stated repeatedly above, most consumers could not care less about what most of us in this kind of forum are interested in. As such, "consumers" who are in the center section of the bell curve area do not see "innovation" in the way you and I see. They are not wrong, and neither are we. That's the just the way it is.

    At the same time, I would urge caution in using the word innovation. Innovation need not always be lofty-sounding credentials. As somone who has spent years in manufacturing including automotive, I can tell you that in this kind of business a lot of innovation takes place where it is not obvious and which is difficult to put in brochures and catalogs. Innovation can be in manufacturing process, for instance, that balances the cost and output, which, if done well, normally produces a win-win for both the manufacturer and consumers.

    "Boring" is not necessarily an antithesis to "Innovation."
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    I would like to make some clarifications for new Corolla:

    - 1.8l engine is all new dual VVTI - L with 132hp and 128 torque. Now, Corolla is larger, wider, heavier by 100-300 lb., and it still gives you 1mpg more. I believe this is called an improvement. Backy, please give me an example where other manufacturer have done better job? Let's not talk about hybrids or diesels!
    - Reliability of Corolla(Toyota) is excellent. As a result, recent survey (I cannot remember where I read this) showed that Toyota customers have the highest percentage of repeated customers buying again Toyota product.
    - Reliability of new Corolla is excellent. Go ahead and read reviews of regular folks from England and Ireland who tell you why they love or not so much their new Corollas...
    Also, you will be able to find information about quality of materials in new Corolla in these reviews... I will post link of Toyota Ireland website in a moment.
    - Quietness of cabin is another very important advantage of new Corolla over new competitors. New Corolla will have new windshield made of several layers that will make the car very quiet. Also, there will be additional noise reducing materials thru out car's body. Europeans already noticed this big new improvement. They call new Corolla the most quiet car in its segment.
    - As far as safety, please look at this web site: http://www.toyota.ie/innovation/safety/ncap-ratings/corolla/
    There is only small difference between European Toyota Corolla and US version: there is no knee airbag.
    However, European Toyota Corolla is called the safest compact sedan in its class.
    - As far as innovation/technology, Reuters reports that Toyota leads in people perception for being a leader in innovation, technology and environment. Link for this discussion and article is here: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227966

    Is new Corolla the leader in its class? Probably not. But people know that this car has all futures that other cars have. Now, they might know that car will run and will be dependable vehicle for very long time, which requires less maintenance in comparison to other makes. Who does not want to have a vehicle that gives him/her less or no problems, so he/she can concentrate on other important things of life?
    :D
  • dchevdchev Posts: 38
    This is a Toyota Ireland website with reviews for new Corolla.
    http://www.toyota.ie/models/reviews/corolla/
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Consumers have waited a long time for the biggest car manufacturer in the world to update the most popular model in history and all we got was a "catch-up" product.

    If Toyota shares your opinions, then their concerns is about themselves and not their customers. That's the most natural response in the world and IMO very shortsighted. Modern busines models all point to quality and innovation as the keys to long term success. Toyota quality has taken a down turn, and Gen 10 is not innovative.


    I'm sorry but you're just missing what is being said. You're viewing this from your personal perspective ( which is valid of course ) but you are generalizing from the specific which is an error in logic. You have to take a step back, ignore the specific instance, and look at the entire picture.

    There are more voters out ther asking for exactly what Toyota is supplying than something more specialized such as what you're looking for. Supplying the greater demand in preferene over the smaller demand is just good business practice. It's why Toyota's marketing is better than everyone else's. They have recognized this huge demand for rock-solid, basic transportation and decided that there are more buyers for this type of product than for a more specialized one. They are correct. Sales figures validate the strategy.

    If the generic vehicle doesn't fit your specialized wants that's OK. It cannot meet everyone's requirements.

    Neither position is wrong. Your's if perfectly valid for you personally and their's is perfectly valid for a much larger population of buyers. It just so happens that in this instance the two don't intersect. That's OK.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    My "hatred" of Toyota comes purely from the way it is marketed and targeted. It basically is Japanese version of my other least favorite company, General Motors. It really is General Motors of Asia - with one big difference that it's successful. Their entire business model revolves about "give least possible to satisfy most people". It is not a wrong model - just not working for me. I learned long time ago, I'm not "most people", so by definition their vehicles always lack something - it is mostly in the driving sensations themselves and hum-drum interiors.

    Even if I somehow could get over their mushy suspensions, and not-so-inspiring interiors (their exterios are OK for me - styling is really low in my priority list), I still can't stand a thought of a visit in an average Toyota store in Florida (never found one I liked - they are on bottom of CR "purchasing experience" for a reason) and their product packaging just drives me nuts. I like vehicles packaged with manual transmissions, all safety features and good but not excessive convenience features. Such vehicles usually don't exist at dealers' lots, even if you could configure them on Toyotas website - and their dealers do absolutely everything to discourage ordering.

    On top of that Toyota allows their dealers' groups add those worthless "protection" packages at distribution centers, making them part of Monroney sticker (no other brand does that). A few years ago I was looking at Matrix; wanted base engine, manual tranny, side airbags and ABS. Nope, no car for you. There is no market for $500 side airbags, but surely there was market for $799 Toyoguard crap. Those packages pretty much kill the value, but they shuve them down our throats like they are absolute gold.

    So - that is what I mean by "hate" their marketing and despise SET dealers.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    Well, then go and vote. If there is enough people like you, i.e. current customers who feel let down and turn away from the brand, I'm sure they'll notice. Being right about the market sentiment is not given forever. Detroit thought they knew it all, even when everybody else already knew they didn't. They eventually got the memo, but look how long it took them to actually understand it. I was let down by my favorite manufacturer, too - so I know exactly what you fell.

    I'm not defending them - I'd buy five other cars before I'd buy Corolla, but I'm not "most people". However, ability to see world through somebody else's eyes is very important, even if you completely disagree with their resolve.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    In the birthplace of this car, enthusiast magazines' polls have placed the Corolla either at the top or near the top of "Most Boring Car" or "Most Hated Car" ranking year after year, for so long as I can remember.

    And yet the Corolla has been the number one selling car in Japan (excluding kei cars) for 38 consecutive years, except in 2002 when Honda Fit dethroned the Corolla.

    I don't know anyone in Japan who actually drives a Corolla, and yet Corollas are everywhere.

    This car has been a paradox to me. :confuse:
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