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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It appears that all the comments back and forth are essentially in agreement. The 5AT is probably smoother but more expensive. The 4AT is well proven, less expensive and likely more efficient even on a bigger vehicle.

    The market 'needs' both options in order to satisfy both the enthusiasts and the cost-conscious. This is good.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    I don't agree with the "...likely more efficient even on a bigger vehicle" part. I don't think there's any evidence that a 4AT is more efficient than a 5AT, in general. In fact, I think it's the other way around. The more gear ratios there are, the more efficiently the transmission can use the car's available power at all speeds.
  • No, actually you didn't understand my post at all..to use your same tone!

    I can't comment on price in mid-atlantic area any more than I can comment on 1st hand experience in Japan.....what is available here [practically] to me in FL is priced higher than the civic and is outdated...should have a better offering for 09 after several years to work on this.....i don't think the 09 will be competitive...I know they can do better than tweak the same engine and keep the same trans....throw a camry engine in for the upper models..and add new sheetmetal and lights and call it 'new'....honda did a complete re-design for the 06 and up..I know Toyota can do the same after doing things like the prius..and other hybrid work....and ditching one of their best samll cars..believe it or not, the echo.......
  • There are two benefits of going from 4AT to 5AT:

    1) improved acceleration, since you can keep the engine in the most efficient rev range for acceleration.

    2) Better freeway fuel economy, since with a 5AT you can use a gear ratio in the highest gear for lower engine revs without sacrificing performance when you accelerate at freeway speeds.

    That's why Honda's development of the compact 5AT unit for its Civic line was such a big breakthrough; I hope that Toyota will offer soon a similar compact 5AT for the Yaris and Corolla and the Scion xB and xD models, especially with today's high fuel prices.
  • Here is a very funny news article about these two cars:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/01/business/NA-FIN-US-Toyota-Corolla.php

    I have a question to both Chief engineers Mr Shinichi Yasui and David Terai of Corolla and Matrix respectively.
    Ummh . What exactly did you engineer in these cars?
    Ummh.. do we really need engineering to produce these cars? Can't we use the old drawing? I dont see any difference anyway.
  • Furthermore, Chief Engineer David Terai said in the article that they want the Matrix to apeal to the younger buyers.
    I nearly fell off my seat after reading this. If youre having your meal and planning to read the article, please stop eating because you might choke with laughter.
    Ummh.... Mr Engineer David Terai ... how is this going to appeal to younger buyers sir. Do you think that STICK ON , TACKY body parts such as the front spoiler , side rocker panels will appeal to the younger buyers? Does TORSION BEAM rear suspension appeal to younger buyers? Does whacky, retarded, body lines that you cant figure out if it was designed here or in Mars appeal to younger buyers?
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Since this thread has deteriorated into a Civic VS Corolla argument I'm skipping town for awhile. See you in Feb. image
    I don't have the time and energy to keep banging my head against the wall. image
    What part of Corolla outsells Civic do you guys don't understand?
    Mackabee
  • "The acceleration is better than Camry," said chief engineer Shinichi Yasui, noting the XRS Corolla can go from zero to 60 mph in 8.1 seconds. "This acceleration is top of class for a small car."

    Really ? Get out of here!
    Ummh... Mr Chief Engineer sir, Which Camry are we talking about here, the 2.4L or the 3.5L? Well, if it was the 2.4L, it certainly is not a feat that you can be proud off considering that its heavier than the Corolla.

    Now I know why we got a badly redesigned Corolla.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    "Honda offers a 4 cylinder Civic with heated leather seats beginning this year. Other than Mackabee's supposed "inside" sources, there's been no official info from Toyota that the Corolla will be available with the same feature for the 4 cyl. "

    When did I say the Corolla would be available with heated seats?
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    ...the whole point. It doesn't have to win any awards. It only has to sell to the bulk of the population that wants it just as it is.

    Again the old outdated Gen9 Corolla outsells the wonderful new Civic. That's all that counts. Nothing more. If certain buyers don't feel it suits them then there are plenty of options available. If the bulk of the buying public wants vanilla ice cream then the Corolla will continue to crush all the others.

    It's very very simple.

    We had this same discussion two years ago before the Camry came out and you predicted it would be a loser. Well if being No 1 in sales and making tons of money is losing, then point me in that direction. So far you're 0-1 in your predictions.

    Here is mine. The new Corolla will astound/frustrate the enthusiasts because it will continue to trounce the Civic ( and all the rest ) even with only nominal changes. That's just what was intended.
  • sr1945sr1945 Posts: 38
    Just have to ask and vent one more thing for all of us to chew on....

    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    My question is, " Is this all that Toyota could come up with in 6 years of the older model ? What in tar nations took so long just for this minor refresh anyway ?

    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?
  • kenymkenym Posts: 405
    IF THE HONDA IS SOOO GREAT.......GO BUY A HONDA......IT IS REALY THAT SIMPLE
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    Not this again,

    I think I've responded to this, in this thread, at least 5 times previously. Your statement is one of those urban internet myths that 'if you see it on the internet it must be true' sort of things.

    Here are the real facts. This design was finished over 2-1/2 years ago. That's one full year before the the Civic debuted. Nothing changed since then. In Europe this design launched on time 18 mos ago. In Australia this design launched 12 months ago. In NA this design ran into the Tundra launch ( so it was pushed back a year ). Except for the powertrains this NA vehicle is the same one being sold in Europe and Austrailia.

    The delay had nothing to do with the Civic. It had only to do with being run over by the the Tundra. The current 'outdated' Corolla has been killing the wonderful new Civic for over a year now. There's no urgency to change especially since the Tundra had the entire spotlight.

    In addition, auto designs, tooling, production, logistics, supply decisions are made 4-7 yrs in advance. This isn't like repainting your room. It can't be changed 'on the fly' like this myth would have you believe. The 2012 3 yr 'refresh' is finished already. The Gen11 Corolla for 2014 is probably well under way and depending on how significant the changes, it may be closed to finished in some aspects.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Main Entry:
    en·thu·si·ast Listen to the pronunciation of enthusiast
    Pronunciation:
    \-ˌast, -əst\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1570

    : a person filled with enthusiasm: as a: one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit b: one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

    image
    image

    0-60 times

    8.5
    8.9
    oooohh. I'm impressed.
    image

    link title
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?

    Again like the other similar comments you are not viewing this like a business decision.

    It is just business, nothing more. It is not a beauty pageant.

    The Corolla intentionally is designed to appeal to the bulk of the buying public by being very very traditional, affordable and reliable. As a factory unit it is not intended for the 'zoom-zoom' or 'drifting' crowd. Those mods can be done but out of the factory it is nintended to appeal to Middle America ( Europe/Australia ) that just wants a competitive vehicle that they can forget about.

    Your statement above is trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Why? This vehicle is by far the most profitable small vehicle in the world. Why would anyone want to change that formula?

    It's only about business. Nothing more.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    You're probably right with the COTY but only with respect to Toyotas who won it. As far as I know COTY award winners from Honda such as the Civic and Fit were hugely succesful.

    The Fit is one of the rare cases in which the crtitics voting for the JCOTY and the buying public agreed. The Civic? It's been a forgotten car in Japan - you hardly ever see one in the streets over there.

    I know that this is a Corolla thread, but as a matter of interest, these are the Japan COTY winners since 2000:

    2000: Civic
    2001: Fit
    2002: Accord
    2003: Legacy
    2004: Legend (Acura RL)
    2005: Roadster (Miata)
    2006: LS460
    2007: TBA

    All good cars, except that among these only the Fit and Legacy have sold in any meangful volume in Japan. The Accord and Civic have been unbelievable flops in that country, barely exceeding 1000 units sold in a month. The last three selections are not intended to be high volume vehicles anyway.

    Ironically for my theory, when Toyota last won the JCOTY, they hit a big one in the sales. It was in 1999 with the Vitz/Platz/FunCarGo, known as the Yaris line in the rest of the world.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Interesting we have folks saying how terrible and inferior the 2009 Corolla will be compared to others in its class, but no one here has driven it yet, and in fact there have been no test drive reports published (to my knowledge). What we know is that the new Corolla will be roomier, have a more modern exterior design, have an "all new" chassis and suspension (whatever that means), have a more powerful base engine, and add some important standard features such as ABS, side curtain airbags, and a telescopic steering wheel. There's been a lot of consternation about the fact that a 5AT is hard to get on the car, the new base engine has "only" 132 hp, and it appears that the all-new suspension will still employ a twist-beam rear axle.

    Maybe we could wait to predict doom and gloom for the new Corolla until it's available to drive. Maybe it will have an improved ride, with superior smoothness and NVH for its class, and improved handling. Maybe the new engine will be well-suited for the car and the 4AT (and 5MT). Maybe it will have the best crash scores in its class. Maybe the driving position will (finally!) be comfortable for all or nearly all drivers. Maybe it will have even more of what most people are looking for in a small car, and will sell like hotcakes.

    Or maybe not. But it's a little early I think to be so negative about the car. There's plenty of time for that after we know what it's like to drive. ;)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Posts: 504
    A very wise point you are making, backy.

    By the way, when the 10th-gen Corolla was released in Japan back in 2006 (NZE140 - different from the NA Corolla to be released, which is E150), all the critics fell asleep at its steering wheel. Me, I fell asleep before driving off the lot, and can barely keep my eyes open talking about it right now. And guess which car has been the number one selling in Japan since then (excluding the kei-class)?

    The hint is that its name starts with a "C." ;)
  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    I'm not surprised by very subtle changes in the base Corolla and that is a good business decision. With the disappearance of the Celica GT-S from the line-up, I expected some risk in the XRS model. If volumes are to remain consistent with the 05-06 XRS volumes, even a total flop would not hurt the bottom line significantly. This could have been a good entrance towards reintroduction of the Supra. I would have hoped for the 1.8 L offered in the XRS again with the hp upped to ~185 (similar to the Lotus tweaks), some weight reduction down to ~2500 lbs and a skip pad g rating of around 0.90. I believe these specs would warrant a price as high as $25 K if TRDRacing offered a few aftermarket parts.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I can't believe we are discussing TRDRacing and Corolla in the same sentence. Bit of an oxymoron don't you think?
    :shades:
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