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BMW M3

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Comments

  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    Hello Dewey,

    I've seen the pics in your link scattered here and there on various websites over the past 6 months. That leads me to believe, or I should say hope, that the M3 will look significantly different. There's something inharmonious about all of the pics I've seen and I don't like it.
    I don't know about everyone else, but I'm hoping for a much cooler looking car than what has been revealed (or imagined) thus far. It's hard to get specific about subjective things, but we all know beauty when we see it.

    Please BMW, don't F this up as you've done with the 5 series. :)

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    If you find the BMW e90 sedan, coupe and wagon beautiful then you will likely find the upcoming M3 beautiful. Based on the photos I have seen there does not appear to be a major departures in looks when compared to an e90.

    Only time will tell.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    Am I the only person in the world that thinks the BMW 5 is the SEXIEST vehicle being sold? Sure i can't say the same for the 1, 3, 6, 7, X3, and current X5 but i mean ISN'T SHE EXQUISITE!?! :shades:

    image

    The designers at toyota seem to agree with me especially since they built the Scion tC(2007 has a msrp of $15k) so similar to it?

    image

    Sure its missing the angels eye and signaling eyebrow but its nothing a few mods wont fix.

    ON the subject matter, The m3 is kinda homely IMO. The old3 and the 19893 were my favorite. I guess I like every other generation of 3. This look IMO is revolunitary for a 5. For once it isn't similar to the Bangle Butt 7 (unlike the new 3. The new m3 seems to share the 6 & 7s rear) The freshened x5 is also handsome :blush: .
  • acbrbmwacbrbmw Posts: 19
    if you guys want to get a better look at what the ne m3 looks like, go to www.ask.com and select images and type in 2008 m3 and it brings up two photos of the new m3. i'm sure you have all heard about the new 328i and 335i coupes........but bmw just told us that they will put the 300 hp twin turbo in the sedan
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    Looks DO matter, in addition to athletics. I fear the two big show stoppers for me and alot of people will be based on looks and weight.

    I like the red pic here. It's phat and actually.. kinda fat too. I think the bulging hood and rear fenders are a bit too protruding. I really don't like the side mirror light idea. Leave that for Mercedes. This pic seems to be an artistic prediction though, and not a spyshot.

    http://images.ask.com/fr?q=2008+M3&desturi=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autothing.com%2Ffunt- - - - hings%2FSpyShots%2FSpy%2520Shots%25202008%2FSS-08-BMW%2520M3.htm&fm=i&ac=31&ftUR- - - - I=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ask.com%2Ffr%3Fq%3D2008%2BM3%26desturi%3Dhttp%253A%252F%25- - - - 2Fwww.autothing.com%252Ffunthings%252FSpyShots%252FSpy%252520Shots%2525202008%25- - - - 2FSS-08-BMW%252520M3.htm%26imagesrc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.autothing.com%252Fi- - - - mages%252FFun%252520Things%252FSpy%252520Shots%252FSS-2008%252FSS-08-BMW-M3-P2a.- - - - jpg%26thumbsrc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252F65.214.37.88%252Fts%253Ft%253D12103925758789- - - - 295048%26thumbuselocalisedstatic%3Dfalse%26fn%3DSS-08-BMW-M3-P2a.jpg%26f%3D2%26f- - - - m%3Di%26ftbURI%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.ask.com%252Fpictures%253Fq%253D2008%2- - - - 52BM3%2526page%253D1&qt=0

    There's something very troubling about every "official" spyshot I've seen thus far though. (including those posted on Edmunds.com)

    Anxiously awaiting the debut.

    Joseph
    San Diego

    P.S. What happened to the overely anticipant M3 discussion mania? :)
  • acbrbmwacbrbmw Posts: 19
    the black one in those pics looks awesome!
  • jjohnjohnjjohnjohn Posts: 24
    Hello fans, I recently had my 2006 M3 with SMG updated - installed new software/recalled. I am not sure if it is my imagination or a real issue, but I find that every once in a while when I am starting out in first gear, there seems to be a very slight but noticeable 'putter' before it takes off, as if I had a manual and did not make a smooth shift transition. Has anyone every noticed this problem? Is it an issue that needs to be resolved or just normal? Thanks in advance. :confuse:
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    I find it very interesting that the video seems to be a BMW demo of the 335 with a Manual transmission. I would think they'd debut an SMG version since it seems that the SMG is the BMW transmission of choice. Where did I get that idea from?? well, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe, the current M3 in the US originally only came with SMG, furthermore, the legendary "purist" CSL M3 in Europe ONLY comes with SMG. I think that speaks volumes, which confuses me on the choice of the manual demo in that video. hmm, I wonder..where did that video come from??

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • Engine output equates to 412 hp and 310 lb./tq. Additionally, the engine will be a 4-liter V8, equipped with bi-VANOS and will send power through either a 3rd generation 7-speed SMG or a 6-speed manual. No word on what which transmission will come standard.

    Pricing, with the applicable import costs will be $53,975, a mere $5k over the current 2006 model.

    All the sorted details, pulled straight from the two posts can be found after the jump.

    Major Standard Equipment
    Adaptive Xenon Headlights
    Carbon Fiber Roof
    SMG III 7-Speed transmission with DRIVELOGIC
    18" M Double Spoke Alloy Wheel
    18x8F/18x9R with P235/45ZR18 Front, P265/40ZR18 Rear Performance tires.

    Invoice $49,117
    Base Price USA Port of Entry* $53,975

    Vehicle Options List
    Metallic paint $475
    Nappa leather $1,450
    Carbon fiber trim $300
    Aluminum trim NC
    Comfort Access $500
    M Multifunction Seats with Active Width Adjustment $1,900
    Front Heated Seats $500 / ZCW
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Head-Up Display $1,000
    Navigation System w/I-Drive $2,100
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Rear Park Distance Control $350
    19" M Double Spoke alloy wheel $1,750
    19x8.5F/19x9.5R with P235/40ZR19 Front, P265/35ZR19 Rear Performance tires.
    Logic 7 sound system $1,200
    SIRIUS Satellite Radio $595
    High Definition Radio $500
    Premium Package (ZPP) $3,100
    Cold Weather Package (ZCW) $750
    6-speed manual transmission NC
    Rear Spoiler Deletion NC
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Reagrding transmission choices, the E46 M3 initially came with a 6-speed manual, the SMG option was offered shortly thereafter.

    I seriously considered the M3 a couple of years ago and test drove both the 6-speed and SMG. The former was exceptional, the latter was not, IMO. The SMG hesitated slightly from a dead stop and made my usual left hand turns more exciting than they should have been. I believe BMW revised the SMG (SMG-II), but I know of others who had the same complaints I did. Why anyone with a functioning left foot and right hand wouldn't go for the manual 6-speed is beyond me - maybe too much Game Boy as a kid?

    When I test drove the M5 more recently, I was similarly turned off by the 7-speed SMG. The previous M5 was a great car, and only offered in a 6-speed manual. The new one seemed heavy and pondorous by comparison and less sporty. They endowed it with a great high revving V10 engine, but require you to go through i-drive to access it's full 500 horsepower. What kind of BS is that?

    I ended up buying a new 911S Cabriolet last September and keeping my Acura TL 6-speed. Great move. I've put 9,000 miles on the 911 since and less than 3,000 on the TL (mostly in the winter). My kids fit in the back of the 911 almost as well as they would have in the M3. I may someday get that BMW M-car, but with i-drive and SMG's, BMW appears to be trying to make it less likely.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I think it's from Germany. (video)

    Rocky
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    I'm wondering which it will be first and hoping for the 2 door. I wont have time to wait when my lease is up, so whatever they come out with is what I'll probably get. I've always had four doors. If I get this M3, I'd rather go all sport and drive away with two doors. This will probably be THE sportiest thing I'll ever purchase.

    I hope BMW will not wait too much longer before giving people a more tangible clue as to what their plans are. Waiting too long may back fire as passions may burn out.

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    There hasn't been a 4-door M3 since the E36, so I wouldn't worry. I'm sure the new M3 will start (and probably finish) as a 2 door coupe.

    If you get tired of waiting, and don't need much back seat space, you could also go for a 911. My daughters have logged more miles in the back seat of mine over the past year than they have in my TL. I actually considered the M3 last fall but, given that it's only a 2 door, couldn't justify buying one as a third car. The 911 makes a much better choice for that role, although it has now become my primary driver.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    It's interesting, I've never considered the current 911 since I've always assumed it to be beyond my price range. Out of curiosity, I did some checking.

    As a reference, Carsdirect.com offers the following:
    - 06 911 coupe rwd, with NO options for 71.6k (asking price)
    - 06 M3 coupe with Premium and Competition package for $59.1k (MSRP), the 07/08? M3 is expected to cost roughly 5k extra so figure $65k. I know of some BMW dealers who claim they will honor whatever the 07 M3 MSRP will be.

    To my surprise, a rock bottom base Porche might only cost roughly $5k more compared to the estimated 07 M3 price with sports and premium package.

    That's not too bad of a price difference at first glance. Comparable!

    Wonder how the 07 M3 will fare in performance against the current base, yet legendary 911 rwd coupe.

    I also wonder how crude, in terms of comfort, a base 06 911 is compared to the up and coming 07 M3. I've never test driven a Porche.

    I know that Porche just came out with an 07 911 Turbo which goes for over $120k. That car will remain always, in my dreams. However, I can still ?realistically? wonder if there will be an 07 911 base model coming soon. That might make for another interesting (performance/price/comfort) comparison to the 07 M3?

    In terms of looks, the world admired aerodynamic body style of the 911 is the more beautiful (IMHO) and yet, its more or less static style over the years can be a bit bland with the wrong colors. In contrast, the up-coming M3 will boast a new body style similar to the current 06 3-series (lovely with the sports rims). I'd expect the new 07 M3 to be not as artistic as the 911's figure, but Newer looking, nevertheless.

    hmm, I'm thinking way too much about this stuff..

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The 2007 base model 911 is already out, notwithstanding Edmund's delay in getting info on their new car info website. My dealer (Hunt Valley Porsche in Baltimore) shows some 2007 911's in their inventory. Check their website.

    Comparing (speculatively) the 2007 911 to 2007 M3:

    Price: the 911 will be more, but how much needs to be determined. I got a significant discount on my 911S Cab last fall. When I had previously shopped M3's there was much less negotiating willingness on DC area dealers. The downside is that Porsche option lists are a mile long. If you can put aside the temptation to load it with do-dads, a base 911 should be competitive. But keep the $920 sport chrono box checked. It increases the throttle response of the 911 to the point of feeling like you've got 30 extra horsepower.

    Function: The 911 has rear seats that work great for up to 100+/- miles for my two kids (8 & 11). That's it. Small front trunk. No spare tire. The M3 is more versitile, albeit not enough for me to get rid of my sedan (TL). As far as "harshness" and drivability, my 911 has logged 9,000 miles over 11 months, my TL less than 3,000 during that time, mostly when I needed the added capacity. And I'm a hair short of 50, so my tolerance for getting beat up is lower than it was 20 years ago. That should tell you something.

    Form: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it's hard for me not to look at the 911 and smile. The interior refinements that came in 2005 with the 997 model make it a much nicer interior as well. It looks like a purposeful sports car. BMW went in the wrong direction in my opinion with their interior design and i-Drive. I personally like the interior of the previous M5 to the new one. Hopefully, the new M3 will be better in that department.

    Performance: The M3 drives like a coupe. Arguably the best coupe in the world. But it's not a sports car. The 911 is, in spite of those little rear seats. Acceleration should be comparable. Handling and cornering favors the sports car 911, if not in absolute numbers, certainly in subjective feel.

    I'm a fan of the 911. But it's not for everyone. Good luck.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    habitat1,
    I always want to ask a Porsche owner on Porsche's reliability record. Aside from it is from car to car even from same manufacturer, how reliable is your 911, and how does the upkeep and repair cost of 911 compare to you TL? I got the impression that 911 has bulletproof quality ;)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    My 2005 911S Cab is only 11 months old, with 8,800 miles, so it's too early to tell how it will do long term. But so far, so good. I had one "service needed" warning light come on. Turned out to be a slight crack in one of the spark plug coils that they replaced under warranty. Other than that, the car runs perfect and is more everyday driving friendly than I expected. On a recent trip to our second home, I averaged 27.8 mpg on the 360 mile return trip at an average of 74 mph. Not bad for a car that can scoot to 60 in about 4.2 seconds.

    I'm probably going to break down next month and have a one year, 10,000 mile oil change and check-up done just for my own peace of mind and anal retentiveness. But, if you can believe this, the 997's first scheduled service is not until 2 years or 20,000 miles.

    This is my first Porsche (first non-Japanese car, in fact) and I admit I was a little nervous. But after doing my research, I found that most owners of 911's had few, if any problems. And, after getting the Cayenne bugs worked out over the last couple years, Porsche managed to steal the #1 spot on JD Powers Initial Quality Survey from Lexus. I can see why.

    Our TL and MDX are fine low maintenance vehicles, as one would expect from Acura. But my former Honda S2000 beat them both for fit and finish and build quality, IMO. It was hand built in Japan and probably qualifies for the most fun, with the least worry you could have in any car. Not a 911 S Cab, but a hell of a car for a third the price.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    I was talking to a friend of mine about the idea of getting a base Porche instead of the up-coming M3. His reply, "Isn't a Porche more of an expensive rally car?", and suggested a comparison of the 911 to the WRX or STI would be more logical. The M3 is a true four door sports sedan that is very track worthy. The 911 is a pure-bread race car.
    For me, I'd like my car to be qualified to do the following:

    - take to the track
    - beat almost anything on the street
    - look really cool!! head turner
    - take a couple friends to the club on a Saturday night
    - take a hot date out to dinner on a Week night
    - look respectable driving to a wedding
    - comfortably take my mother out to dinner
    - fit a mid-sized surf board in my car on the way to Delmar
    - put a cooler in the trunk for beers after surfing
    - fit all the groceries in my trunk after going to Costco

    Ideally, I'd be able to do these things in my car. Not being rich nor married, I suppose practicality is important. I suspect the Porchce would struggle with some of the above tasks..

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "...and suggested a comparison of the 911 to the WRX or STI would be more logical".

    Your friend needs to check into drug re-hab. And I'd say the same thing if he compared the M3 to those boy-racers, (which some folks do, since all three are two door 4 passenger coupes, not sports cars).

    On your "qualifications" list, here's how I would rate the 911:

    - take to the track: No problem.

    - beat almost anything on the street: Porsche conservatively rates the 911S at 0-60 in 4.6. It's been tested at 3.9 to 4.2 by the car magazines. I think that qualifies. And when you throw in twisties, you have to go into Ferrari territory to match or beat it.

    - look really cool / head turner: Well, it's got a "bonnet" not a trunk. And it has the engine in the back. That's "cool" according to my 8 year old daughter, her friends, and their dads.

    - take a couple of friends to the club on a Saturday night: One no problem, two can work if they are women (or short guys) with a combined height of less than about 10'8" or so. And the club isn't too far away. But if all three are 6' plus, one will be in need of several drinks upon arrival.

    - take a hot date out to dinner on a week night: Perfect. I average one or two a week with my wife and kids.

    - look respectable driving to a wedding: careful, the bride may ditch the groom when she sees your car.

    - comfortably take my mother out to dinner: mine is 88. She can get in and out of the 911 easier than our MDX.

    - fit a mid size surf board...: I don't surf, but that sounds like a problem. However, I can take a friend and two sets of golf bags in the back with the jump seats down.

    - Put a cooler in the trunk for beers....: You don't think we golf sober, do you?

    - fit all my groceries in the trunk after going to Costco: My wife is the Costco freak, but I've filled the bonnet with 3-4 bags and the rest go in the rear seat (I have a Cab, that makes it easier to load).

    There is no doubt that although the 911 can satisfy most of your requirements, the M3 would do the practical ones a little easier. But the 911 is a sports car and the performance is world class, especially the "S" model with the 30 extra horsepower and standard adjustable suspension. I tend to be a "substance" guy and think the M3 is a tremendous car. But I've heard others criticize the M3 because "everywhere you turn, there goes another 3 series". Not an issue for me, but from some of your requirements, you might prefer the distinctive image and appearance of the 911 over the M3.

    One thing not on your list of requirments is "fit and finish". The build quality and attention to detail on a 911 is extraordinary. After nearly a year and 8,800 miles, I still sit in my 911 (997) for about 30 seconds after I turn the engine off, looking at the interior and wondering what the heck they drive in heaven? And if you can get out and walk away from a 911 without looking back at least once, you are a better man than me.

    You really can't go wrong with either the M3 or 911. And they have absolutely nothing in common with those other cars your friend mentioned.
  • I'm looking at a 2006 M3 convertible that the sales manager built and drove. It has 1,800 miles on it. It is silver grey w/ the awesome cinnamon leather (this combo was special order; it is not a combo in the catalog). It a 6-speed with cold package, lumbar, xenon, hk sound and 19" M wheels. I am having his service dept add Bluetooth (please tell me this is possible as a non-factory ordered item and with a car that does not have nav). MSRP is $63,045. I have him down to $58,000 (I believe invoice is $57,700). Lease is going to be $790/month (that was my offer or walk), 15k miles per year with $5,000 due at inception (I know... don't put money down but I always have and will do so on this one), and they have to add Bluetooth. They seem very motivated to sell it as summer is coming to an end, and it is a very lightly used demo (1,800 miles). Good deal???
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I was just in VOB BMW in Rockville, Maryland. They have a brand new red M3 convertible on their showroom floor. I wasn't interested, but when I commented that it looked nice, the sales manager said "we can make you a great deal", which I interpreted to be invoice or less.

    I would think you could do better on a used/demo M3, with 1,800 miles on it. At least in our area, September/October marks the end of convertible selling season and you are buying the tail end of the current M3 model. Not to mention that proper break in is extremely important with M3's. How many test drives were accumulated in those 1,800 miles? If it were me, I'd write them a check for $53,500 and dare them to rip it up. Last September, I did something similar on a 2005 911S Cab. I got $10k off on a brand new car, newly intorduced model, that just happened to be a late arriving 2005 instead of an identical $2,400 more expensive 2006. The fact that several local dealers told me the most they had ever discounted the 911 was $1,000 didn't dissuade me from trying - and it worked.

    Good luck.
  • habitat1,

    What does "proper break in" on an M3 entail?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "What does "proper break in" on an M3 entail?"

    Pretty much the same thing that is required/recommended on my Porsche 911 or former Honda S2000. Namely, don't exceed certain RPM's (4,200 in the case of the 911, with a 7,200 rpm redline), don't drive the car for short distances that doesn't give the engine oil time to fully heat up and the seals, gaskets and other engine parts time to fully expand and then contract (i.e. should be driven 15-20 minutes), avoid hard accelertion when the engine isn't warm (and still keep within aforementioned rpms), don't use cruise control and vary engine speeds on highway trips, etc.

    The average Lexus, Toyota and GM engine doesn't require much care during break in. But high performance engines like the M3 do. And that has always been a concern of mine when I have considered used cars or worse, demos. I just have difficulty trusting that a car like the M3 has been test driven in a way that conforms to the above recommendations. When I was shopping for a Honda S2000 several years ago, a stupid salesperson threw me the keys to a brand new car and said 'let it rip". The S2000 is NOT supposed to be V-teched (exceeding 5,500 rpm) during break in and the long term performance of the car is noticably affected if it has been. So even "new" S2000's with 40-50+ miles on the odometer became off-limits for me.

    If the M3 you are considering was actually the personal car of the dealer, I would ask him to give you written assurance that the car was properly broken in. If I'm not mistaken, there is even a way on the M3 to download info from the engine computers as to the maximum RPM's the engine has been run at and for how long. Ask him to give you that report. My local BMW dealer refused to replace a blown engine under warranty on an M3 that had been abused during break in.

    Bottom line, I would not buy this car - or any "used" performance car - at a price that wasn't substantially below what I could get a new one for. I'd rather sleep at night knowing I properly broke the car in than wondering. Since you'd be leasing, maybe it's not as big a deal for you.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    There's no "competition or sports package" equivalent in the list of options you've posted. Hopefully this will be the case; that the new M3 will come basically in one optimal flavor. It would mean minimal choices to agonize over. It's bad enough I'll have to choose between a 7-speed SMG-III and 6-speed manual tranny. I'll also have a tough time deciding on the Navigation system. Not to mention of course, the agony of dishing out the big dollars. Regarding the Rear Spoiler Deletion..what spoiler are they talking about?? Haven't seen a spoiler on any of the spyshots.

    It would be nice if someone could update us with the latest news. :)

    Joseph
    San Diego I

    Major Standard Equipment
    Adaptive Xenon Headlights
    Carbon Fiber Roof
    SMG III 7-Speed transmission with DRIVELOGIC
    18" M Double Spoke Alloy Wheel
    18x8F/18x9R with P235/45ZR18 Front, P265/40ZR18 Rear Performance tires.

    Invoice $49,117
    Base Price USA Port of Entry* $53,975

    Vehicle Options List
    Metallic paint $475
    Nappa leather $1,450
    Carbon fiber trim $300
    Aluminum trim NC
    Comfort Access $500
    M Multifunction Seats with Active Width Adjustment $1,900
    Front Heated Seats $500 / ZCW
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Head-Up Display $1,000
    Navigation System w/I-Drive $2,100
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Rear Park Distance Control $350
    19" M Double Spoke alloy wheel $1,750
    19x8.5F/19x9.5R with P235/40ZR19 Front, P265/35ZR19 Rear Performance tires.
    Logic 7 sound system $1,200
    SIRIUS Satellite Radio $595
    High Definition Radio $500
    Premium Package (ZPP) $3,100
    Cold Weather Package (ZCW) $750
    6-speed manual transmission NC
    Rear Spoiler Deletion NC
  • I just wanna know who thinks that a BMW 3.3L is a such a super high performance engine. It does have a lot in the design of the engine but I can make just as much power with a GM 2.8L in a fiero or camaro. The engines are already broken in when they are installed in the car becouse they have to drain the oil to remove excess assembly lube and check the seals and re tighten
    head and intake bolts. the M3 motor is the same as the 330i and the 328i just the displacement and such. Dont get me wrong
    i love the M3 but just don't think that some people know what they are talking about.
  • sorry to quote that entire passage but I had to put my 2 cents in...

    well ok as an STi owner for 2 years, I can say Im fed up with the people who think my car is for 17 year old ricers. First of all, not many kids can afford that car. Secondly there is a good reason they have wet dreams about it. Simply put as far as performance goes, there are very few cars under 100Gs that can compete. And style wise, the interior and exterior is amazing for the price.

    As for comparing the STi to a Porsche or an M3, that is something I can do very well, since I looked at all 3 before making my descision.

    So let me take Habitat's comments and apply them to my car compared to his Porsche and an M3....

    -Take it to the track - Thats what its made for

    - beat almost anything on the street: Now I dont know where he got 3.9 seconds from, but the STi goes 0-60 in somewhere between 4.6 to 4.8. It might not beat a Viper or a Z06, but it WILL beat an M3 (I already have) and most Porsches (Ive beat a couple of Carreras already). It sticks like glue to the road and inspires better road confidence than my test drive with an M3 did. Not to mention the whirring sound of the turbo spooling is sheer heaven.

    - look really cool / head turner: My car turns plenty of heads, and doesnt give off the "I have something to compensate for" aura that a Porsche does. However I will admit its not a chick magent, it is for people who love to drive.

    - take a couple of friends to the club on a Saturday night: It can fit 5 people easy, with no noticible compromise in performance. Which is good, especially if you ever consider a little something called "practicallity"

    - take a hot date out to dinner on a week night: Also perfect, and you can also fit the hot date's hot friends without needing to stuff someone in the cargo space.

    - comfortably take my mother out to dinner: and your father and uncle too...

    - fit a mid size surf board...: sadly the back seat doesnt go down, to increase frame rigidity, but with the money you will save over a Porsche or M3, get a beater car instead for hauling stuff.

    - Put a cooler in the trunk for beers....: Even if you dont play the "sports" that some people play, you can fit plenty of beer in the very roomy trunk. But if you prefer playing 'hole in one' with all your male friends you can do that too. (sorry I love to rag on golf)

    - fit all my groceries in the trunk after going to Costco: once again if you don't like your cars with "bonnets", and know what practical is, then the problem with that Porsche is obvious

    Oh and did I mention it is all wheel drive, unlike the M3 and some Porsche?

    Well when it came down to it, I thought I could either spend upwards of 70Gs on a Porsche or M3, or I could spend 30Gs on an STi, a car which is specifically rated among the top ten best value-holding cars.
    If you are the kind of person that likes spending 40 grand on a name, then by all means the Porsche or Beamer is the way to go. However if you can find better uses for 40Gs than sinking it into a car that will lose that value in 4 years, then consider an STi, or an S2000 if you want a convertible. Personally, I took that 40Gs, got my wife a nice new car, remodeled my kitchen and bathrooms, and had money left to spare.
    But hey, If you are filthy rich and dont live in the real world, I guess that isnt a problem.
  • diablo_negro, do you mind explaining yourself a bit better?

    As I see it, there is absolutely no comparison:

    BMW M3 (E46): 3.2L I6, 333hp, 262ft-lb
    Chevy Camaro (LB8): 2.8L V6, 135hp, 165ft-lb
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 132
    I heard somewhere on the forums that in early March, there will be news. I hope so, that's only a few weeks away. Can anyone confirm this??

    I'm on the waiting list at BMW of San Diego. :shades:

    Joseph
    San Diego
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