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BMW M3

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  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    ....but perhaps not in the right direction? I have driven neither but the earlier car looks -- and by all accounts, was -- raw, visceral and exciting to drive -- in a way that the WRX is now. Also, it would have been nice if the 3 series coupe had been pillarless. The E90 coupe, especially, looks big -- almost CSi size. Probably just me, but the new one looks isolating, hyper-fast and intimidating rather than fun. It would be a much better proposition in Germany where it could be cruised at 130 to 150 as intended, than in the US. A car designed to be driven extremely fast. Even in my 325i I'm reminded daily on the open road that the car can be drive nowhere near its natural pace. The car's just beginning to settle down.

    The irony is that the freeway driving around here is so ill-informed, stupid and aggressive (weaving, passing on the right, cruising in the middle or left lane rather than right hand lane, no use of signals or hazard flashers) I'd almost advocate lowering the limit.
  • james31278james31278 Posts: 78
    I love the new M3 as well as the E46, they are classy road rockets.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    The E30 and E46 are my favorites; I'll have to drive the E92 before I can express an opinion.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • james31278james31278 Posts: 78
    If I get the chance to I'll drive the new one.
  • hey.. just reposting some pictures. i guess i gotta link it this time, the files were too big and slowing a lotta peoples computers. so, here you go, pictures of the new m3 caught testing out in nevada! heres the pix off my myspace blog
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Looks like your MySpace blog's set to private.

    You can open your own CarSpace here and load your photos there -- it's free and it's fun :-) Here's a link to mine:

    Claire's CarSpace

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 150
    I know, the title sounds like nonsense. I mean, just look at what the industry has pumped out of its design rooms for 2008! We've got BMW's E92 M3 and 335i, Lexus' ISF, Merc's C63 AMG, Audi's RS4/S4/&S5, Mitshibish's Evolution X, Suburu's new WRX, Nissan's GTR supercar outta nowhere, up to Porsche's 997 line up including the new GT2, Ferrari's Scuderia.. and it goes on.

    All of'em boosted up the wazoo with more power, more torque, fancy suspensions, and spancy dual clutch tranny's. Ok, so you're probably wondering, WTF is the problem then B#$! :) And WhyTF are you complaining here, in an M3 forum of all places??? Those may sound like good questions to many of you, but the mere fact that my qualms aren't obvious to so many is probably THE source of the problem in the first place! Yeah, I'm blaming the average consumer..for inducing the industry into causing this mess, this embarrassing mess IMO.

    This here article goes out to the manufactures who got it all wrong and to the average joe auto consumers who need educating. True enthusiasts already know, and all you fanboys are beyond help so click the back radio dial button on your web browser now.

    Let me elucidate:

    I post this Here, in an M3 forum at Edmunds for various reasons. Firstly because I respect Edmunds reviews and have used their valuable site for years. Secondly, because I know I wont get hassled here by A-hole m3forum/m3post moderators and fanboys. Thirdly and most importantly, I post on an M3 thread because, I've anticipated and waited for this new M3 for years!..and have been utterly disappointed in many ways. This car was supposed to be the car I drive in 2008!

    Here's the gripe already. From an auto-enthusiast's point of view, ALL of the cars listed above severely disappoint in at least one way or another. Let's go down the line shall we?

    BMW's E92 M3: This car was supposed to be perfect! Why? Because the E46 M3 was nearly perfect! Instead, it turned out to be a muscle head GT highway gas guzzling cruiser. I didn't want a fuel inefficient V8 with today's gas prices! What gives with the macho man's crotch bulge on the hood? The view of which is unavoidable from the &#147;cockpit&#148;; pun intended. The front grill no longer has the classic E46,M5 beauty/coolness. The steering feel is numb at low to medium speeds where most people need it most for driving enjoyment. <- this was and is the deal breaker for me..but there are more flaws. The interior isn't much more inspiring than a bland 328's. The rear bumper is overly complicated with busy grooves. Its performance isn't much better than a typical 335i with a 2k Dinnan software patch. Why pay extra for the M3??
    Ok..next car..

    BMW's 335i: Well, actually, this car is Nearly a perfect car. Outta the bunch, its rather simple being rear drive 6cyl with 50/50 weight and excellent steering feel and handling. The car has lotsa usable torque at very low rpm's and will spool with minimal turbo lag all the way to 7000rpms maintaining high torque across a wide band! I&#146;m VERY happy with all of these aspects. The big gripe with the 335i is its appearance. Inside and out, the car is bland. Elegant perhaps, but why did they dull down this superbly sporty car so much??? Previous 3series cars inspired and were more aggressively sporty looking. As a typical enthusiast, who is a bit more extreme in spirit than in driving expertise; I want a more sporty, meaner, COOLER, looking car darn it while at the same time I want a car that retains that business suit professional look that BMW knows best.

    Lexus ISF: Ok..the looks of this car have grown on me a little bit but I wont tell you what I still think F stands for though. What the hell, FUGLY. Sorry Lexus. My main gripe with this car however is not its looks. After all, this car is probably the most fuel efficient and reliable V8 outa the bunch. The problem is, it has a V8. I don't like, and its transmission has been described as having one too many gears for its own good.

    Merc's C63 AMG: Now, this car is a extremely snobbish monster, bordering on reckless. Again, it&#146;s an overkill gas guzzling V8 that's Way too heavy. Had this car weighed the same as the E92 M3, I would&#146;ve probably settled for it.

    Audi's S4/RS4/&S5: All of these cars are gas-guzzlers and very heavy. They typically have uninvolved steering feel. Basically major deal breakers.

    Mitshibish's Evolution X & Suburu's new WRX: Ok these cars are wonderfully too complicated and a bit ugly to be frank. I appreciate the effort, and had I wanted to rally race a production car..these would be my top choices. Oh well..

    Nissan's GTR: WOW..this car got my attention quick. Basically, it's like an all in one multifunction laser jet printer with fax, scanner, modem, ipod jack and all for a relatively cheap price. I mean, it&#146;s got 4wd, dual clutch transmission, a fancy transaxle and suspension, 4 seats, a funky performance monitor/display, plenty of trunk room, and with supercar beating performance. All for a base price of under 70k to boot! I really like the GTR on many fronts however..it's got major flaws too! Rear seat room is F'ing crampt! Yes,..that matters to me dammit! If the car proclaims to be a four seater..then they aught provide respectable seats. The other gripe is with its looks..Come on, I mean it looks like a freagin transformer that got stuck in mid transformation for goodness sake. It also lacks a business suit professional touch that should come with a car cost'n upward of 70k! And Everyone is talk&#146;n bout how cheap the GTR is..Come On! That's BS!!!! 70k MSRP is NOT cheap..we're talking near 80k out the door probably even with no markups that are highly anticipated! The price tag is barely attainable to the average mid income auto enthusiast/consumer. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate Nissan's effort on this car. It's nearly perfect in all respects where it counts. They&#146;ve raised the bar, and eyebrows of those who&#146;ve paid much much more for less performance! Even if I don&#146;t buy your car, Thank You Nissan!

    Porsche&#146;s 997s: These cars are obviously out of reach to most folks. A troubling question suddenly now exists for those who can afford the car. Why do these cars cost so much when the GTR beats almost every one for at least 30k less? WTF? It kinda puts a nasty negative light on Porsche IMO.

    The same argument goes for Ferrari's line up. Nuff said, I can&#146;t afford them cars any way.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 150
    I'll try to conclude the above evolution of thought, that will no doubt still go on for whatever reason makes an auto enthusiast tick, by asking the following: How could all these great auto manufacturers, all&#146;of&#146;em I say; F up royally in one way or another??? There were so many this time! How could the M division diverge away from the ideal I thought they knew best?? Instead of a driver's car, they produced a well designed albeit irresponsible muscle bound GT cruiser. And almost everyone else followed suit!

    Nissan&#146;s GTR and BMW&#146;s 335i are exempt from the brunt of the above question, but as I&#146;ve described, they have big flaws as well. I suppose the 335&#146;s toned down look was an intentional attempt to protect the E92 M3? The GTR&#146;s looks are understandably different since the car reflects, unapologetically, Japanese culture.

    For the rest, the only answer I could come up with thus far is that the manufacturers only provided what they, to the best of their knowledge, thought the average consumer wanted. And who can blame them given monster SUV demand and ever growing lust for more brute hp. There&#146;s just an embarrassing obsession for numbers like 0-60, 1/4mi, and oh yeah you can&#146;t leave out the all mighty &#147;Ring&#148; time. I guess, the lust for these numbers have distracted folks from an ideal centered around the &#147;driving experience&#148;. Why should manufacturers provide a sophisticated yet simple driver's machine to the masses when crude unsophisticated cowboy mentality seems to be the trend. You see the over exuberant lust for super-sized everything everywhere from fries to carpet bombs to Hummers.

    So, I bid all well this 2008. Enjoy your super dooper V8's and fancy computerized trannys. I&#146;m sure you&#146;ll make plenty of like-minded friends at gas stations. I have no
    Idea what I&#146;ll be doing in less than a year when my 330i lease is up.

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Looks like a good start for a blog -- have you considered writing one here?

    http://www.carspace.com/blogs/

    If you decide to, please send me a link so that I can bookmark it.

    ClaireS, Host
    Auto News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Are you kidding? I get the impression he doesn't even have a driver's license yet. :P
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    Are you kidding? I get the impression he doesn't even have a driver's license yet.

    Well, the search function is a wonderful thing... Here's an excerpt from one of his earlier posts:

    What I want is to be able to safely attack turns aggressively and to be able to accellerate quickly from rest or at lower speeds.

    It sounds like dialogue from one of my son's Initial D manga comics(though I must admit that they ARE kind of fun to read).

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    LOL...I see I'm not the only one to think that way.

    Actually, after I read his post, my first thought was that he should hide his car magazines before his homeroom teacher catches him and gives him detention - because then he'd either have to catch the late bus or call his mom to come pick him up. :P
  • westgmnwestgmn Posts: 11
    Good because i tend to believe a well informed opinion regarding cars also includes a test drive , not regurgitating magazine exercepts or following the media hype
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    i tend to believe a well informed opinion regarding cars also includes a test drive , not regurgitating magazine exercepts or following the media hype

    I think that enthusiast magazine tests and evaluations can be helpful, but you need to know the editorial slant of the magazine as well as that of the author. Unfortunately, most "experts" tend to forget all that and simply want to use the buff books to play a game of "mine's bigger" by comparing accelleration, braking and skidpad/slalom numbers...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    A very astute poster on another forum (mikeebear) put it best (I've been waiting for a chance to pass it on).

    "You can't look at cars like Pokemon cards, where each car has its own set of "stats" and "numbers" attached to it. They are to be driven and your analysis should come from how they drive."
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    "You can't look at cars like Pokemon cards, where each car has its own set of "stats" and "numbers" attached to it. They are to be driven and your analysis should come from how they drive."

    But then how do you pass the time in Study Hall???

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You've never heard of Mario Kart for Nintendo DS? :P
  • westgmnwestgmn Posts: 11
    haah that game is very addicting
  • westgmnwestgmn Posts: 11
    roadburner i do agree with you. Like you say the slant of a magazine does factor in quite a bit. There are still some objective and fair publications out there...I hope.It is a shame though how it is usually reduced to who is the fastest in a straightline from stop light to stop light.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 150
    Fact is, the E92 M3 is not even available for test drive in the US..so
    one MUST go by magazine and European buyer reviews. That's what I've done.
    I've summarized my opinions in the following blog. Remember, it's only my own personal opinion.

    blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

    Joseph
    San Diego
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Seems to me the new BMW M3 is nothing more than a German Pontiac GTO. I can't say I like one any more than the other...
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    Seems to me the new BMW M3 is nothing more than a German Pontiac GTO.

    I wouldn't go quite that far, I tend to think of it as a replacement for the E28 M5 or E24 M6. The weight and dimensions are similar, aonly with @150 more horsepower. The new M3 is a nice GT or sports sedan, but it's just to massive to be an M3 in spirit.
    Having said all that, I still think I might buy that nice 2002 tii I was looking at awhile back; as the great Colin Chapman put it, "Simplify and add lightness!"

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • Hello, I have a 2004 M3 and having problems with my speakers/stereo. The music/sound tends to fade by itself randomly. The fade is subtle but noticeable, very annoying. Any ideas or solutions? Thanks!
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 150
    After years of waiting, anticipating, discussing, considering...it arrives.

    14 mpg
    $70k Sticker .. no thanks

    It took me less than 5 minutes to conclude, Meh. The 335i looks cleaner and lighter. This M3 is what the M5 should be and the M5 is what the M6 should be. Actually, the M6 shouldn't be, IMO. A more aggressive 335i with slightly larger inline 6 + bi-turbos is what this M3 should have been. BMW should take example from 911TT and GTR rather than join the V8 bandwagon with Audi's RS4 and Merc's C63AMG.

    To think I waisted so much time researching this car!!

    Joseph
    San Diego
    blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 8,009
    14 mpg The M3 is about performance, not fuel economy. In a perfect world, us car guys would be driving 150 mph cars that do 0 - 60 in the 4 second range that in turn get 50 mpg. We live & drive in the real world. The 14city/20highway numbers are the EPA's new rating system which is supposed to reflect real world mileage numbers. After PROPER break in then at 5K & 10K intervals BMWs performance and mileage historically increase.

    $70k Sticker .. no thanks I just "built my own" M3 on BMWUSA's website. The MSRP came out to $56,720. My M3 sedan's only options are heated front seats, power glass moonroof, & SIRIUS Radio (can't live without HOWARD).

    I'm sure this M3 is a V8 in part because of competititon, but there is only so much they could wring out of the Inline 6. They wanted to keep it naturally aspirated, so the next progression is a high revving V8. The V8 is what makes the M3 special. If it were just a 335i with bigger wheels, a sharper suspension, and more power from the same Twin Turbo Inline 6 BMW couldn't justify the price jump.

    The 335 is one amazing car. I think a lot of the world's problems would be solved if more cars have the N54 under the hood :P

    Good luck with your car search.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,880
    I'm considering a M3 sedan for my family hack. With the DCG my wife can drive it and I can still hit the track with it from time to time. I'm guesstimating that my MSRP would be a tick over $60K as the lower base price of the sedan will partially offset the cost of the DCG. The thing is, I consider the latest M3 to be much closer in spirit to the original E28 M5. The E90 is 9 inches shorter and 180 lbs. heavier than the E28 and needless to say, the modern car is much faster- it reaches 60 and the end of the 1/4 mile 2 seconds sooner. It also pulls .95g on the skidpad as opposed to the .83g the E28 can manage. And the new M3 is also a bargain compared to the original M5. Adjust the M5's 1988 MSRP of $48470 for inflation and the 2008 number is $88336. And while I realize that reading several magazine articles and perusing the Monroney sticker will usually tell you all you need to know abou a car, I'm not going to express my final opinion on the new M3 until I actually drive one.
    Having said all that, I'd love to see BMW build something with the character of the original E30 M3- edgy, responsive, and covered with a thin veneer of civility. Sad to say, the market would probably be very limited since today's typical BMW buyer thinks trailing throttle oversteer is a band that used to open for Kansas- and even M Car buyers wet their pants at the thought of taking their car to a high speed driving event(shudder). Those individuals should be forced to drive Lexus LS sedans for the rest of their miserable lives.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 150
    I'll never go anywhere near 150mph..EVER. I'd bet most M3 owners won't as well.
    Why not build a street M3 version with a speed limiter at say..100mph. (no, the 135i is not it) Then, the car can be much lighter, and design optimization can be done for lower, more legal speeds, while maintaining great fuel efficiency?

    Who told BMW that the driving experience is all about driving 90mph over the speed limit??

    Hmm..I should get paid for such ideas. :shades:

    Joseph
    San Diego
    blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08
This discussion has been closed.