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  • I'm looking at a 2006 M3 convertible that the sales manager built and drove. It has 1,800 miles on it. It is silver grey w/ the awesome cinnamon leather (this combo was special order; it is not a combo in the catalog). It a 6-speed with cold package, lumbar, xenon, hk sound and 19" M wheels. I am having his service dept add Bluetooth (please tell me this is possible as a non-factory ordered item and with a car that does not have nav). MSRP is $63,045. I have him down to $58,000 (I believe invoice is $57,700). Lease is going to be $790/month (that was my offer or walk), 15k miles per year with $5,000 due at inception (I know... don't put money down but I always have and will do so on this one), and they have to add Bluetooth. They seem very motivated to sell it as summer is coming to an end, and it is a very lightly used demo (1,800 miles). Good deal???
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I was just in VOB BMW in Rockville, Maryland. They have a brand new red M3 convertible on their showroom floor. I wasn't interested, but when I commented that it looked nice, the sales manager said "we can make you a great deal", which I interpreted to be invoice or less.

    I would think you could do better on a used/demo M3, with 1,800 miles on it. At least in our area, September/October marks the end of convertible selling season and you are buying the tail end of the current M3 model. Not to mention that proper break in is extremely important with M3's. How many test drives were accumulated in those 1,800 miles? If it were me, I'd write them a check for $53,500 and dare them to rip it up. Last September, I did something similar on a 2005 911S Cab. I got $10k off on a brand new car, newly intorduced model, that just happened to be a late arriving 2005 instead of an identical $2,400 more expensive 2006. The fact that several local dealers told me the most they had ever discounted the 911 was $1,000 didn't dissuade me from trying - and it worked.

    Good luck.
  • habitat1,

    What does "proper break in" on an M3 entail?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "What does "proper break in" on an M3 entail?"

    Pretty much the same thing that is required/recommended on my Porsche 911 or former Honda S2000. Namely, don't exceed certain RPM's (4,200 in the case of the 911, with a 7,200 rpm redline), don't drive the car for short distances that doesn't give the engine oil time to fully heat up and the seals, gaskets and other engine parts time to fully expand and then contract (i.e. should be driven 15-20 minutes), avoid hard accelertion when the engine isn't warm (and still keep within aforementioned rpms), don't use cruise control and vary engine speeds on highway trips, etc.

    The average Lexus, Toyota and GM engine doesn't require much care during break in. But high performance engines like the M3 do. And that has always been a concern of mine when I have considered used cars or worse, demos. I just have difficulty trusting that a car like the M3 has been test driven in a way that conforms to the above recommendations. When I was shopping for a Honda S2000 several years ago, a stupid salesperson threw me the keys to a brand new car and said 'let it rip". The S2000 is NOT supposed to be V-teched (exceeding 5,500 rpm) during break in and the long term performance of the car is noticably affected if it has been. So even "new" S2000's with 40-50+ miles on the odometer became off-limits for me.

    If the M3 you are considering was actually the personal car of the dealer, I would ask him to give you written assurance that the car was properly broken in. If I'm not mistaken, there is even a way on the M3 to download info from the engine computers as to the maximum RPM's the engine has been run at and for how long. Ask him to give you that report. My local BMW dealer refused to replace a blown engine under warranty on an M3 that had been abused during break in.

    Bottom line, I would not buy this car - or any "used" performance car - at a price that wasn't substantially below what I could get a new one for. I'd rather sleep at night knowing I properly broke the car in than wondering. Since you'd be leasing, maybe it's not as big a deal for you.
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 139
    There's no "competition or sports package" equivalent in the list of options you've posted. Hopefully this will be the case; that the new M3 will come basically in one optimal flavor. It would mean minimal choices to agonize over. It's bad enough I'll have to choose between a 7-speed SMG-III and 6-speed manual tranny. I'll also have a tough time deciding on the Navigation system. Not to mention of course, the agony of dishing out the big dollars. Regarding the Rear Spoiler Deletion..what spoiler are they talking about?? Haven't seen a spoiler on any of the spyshots.

    It would be nice if someone could update us with the latest news. :)

    San Diego I

    Major Standard Equipment
    Adaptive Xenon Headlights
    Carbon Fiber Roof
    SMG III 7-Speed transmission with DRIVELOGIC
    18" M Double Spoke Alloy Wheel
    18x8F/18x9R with P235/45ZR18 Front, P265/40ZR18 Rear Performance tires.

    Invoice $49,117
    Base Price USA Port of Entry* $53,975

    Vehicle Options List
    Metallic paint $475
    Nappa leather $1,450
    Carbon fiber trim $300
    Aluminum trim NC
    Comfort Access $500
    M Multifunction Seats with Active Width Adjustment $1,900
    Front Heated Seats $500 / ZCW
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Head-Up Display $1,000
    Navigation System w/I-Drive $2,100
    Power Rear Sunshade $350
    Rear Park Distance Control $350
    19" M Double Spoke alloy wheel $1,750
    19x8.5F/19x9.5R with P235/40ZR19 Front, P265/35ZR19 Rear Performance tires.
    Logic 7 sound system $1,200
    SIRIUS Satellite Radio $595
    High Definition Radio $500
    Premium Package (ZPP) $3,100
    Cold Weather Package (ZCW) $750
    6-speed manual transmission NC
    Rear Spoiler Deletion NC
  • I just wanna know who thinks that a BMW 3.3L is a such a super high performance engine. It does have a lot in the design of the engine but I can make just as much power with a GM 2.8L in a fiero or camaro. The engines are already broken in when they are installed in the car becouse they have to drain the oil to remove excess assembly lube and check the seals and re tighten
    head and intake bolts. the M3 motor is the same as the 330i and the 328i just the displacement and such. Dont get me wrong
    i love the M3 but just don't think that some people know what they are talking about.
  • sorry to quote that entire passage but I had to put my 2 cents in...

    well ok as an STi owner for 2 years, I can say Im fed up with the people who think my car is for 17 year old ricers. First of all, not many kids can afford that car. Secondly there is a good reason they have wet dreams about it. Simply put as far as performance goes, there are very few cars under 100Gs that can compete. And style wise, the interior and exterior is amazing for the price.

    As for comparing the STi to a Porsche or an M3, that is something I can do very well, since I looked at all 3 before making my descision.

    So let me take Habitat's comments and apply them to my car compared to his Porsche and an M3....

    -Take it to the track - Thats what its made for

    - beat almost anything on the street: Now I dont know where he got 3.9 seconds from, but the STi goes 0-60 in somewhere between 4.6 to 4.8. It might not beat a Viper or a Z06, but it WILL beat an M3 (I already have) and most Porsches (Ive beat a couple of Carreras already). It sticks like glue to the road and inspires better road confidence than my test drive with an M3 did. Not to mention the whirring sound of the turbo spooling is sheer heaven.

    - look really cool / head turner: My car turns plenty of heads, and doesnt give off the "I have something to compensate for" aura that a Porsche does. However I will admit its not a chick magent, it is for people who love to drive.

    - take a couple of friends to the club on a Saturday night: It can fit 5 people easy, with no noticible compromise in performance. Which is good, especially if you ever consider a little something called "practicallity"

    - take a hot date out to dinner on a week night: Also perfect, and you can also fit the hot date's hot friends without needing to stuff someone in the cargo space.

    - comfortably take my mother out to dinner: and your father and uncle too...

    - fit a mid size surf board...: sadly the back seat doesnt go down, to increase frame rigidity, but with the money you will save over a Porsche or M3, get a beater car instead for hauling stuff.

    - Put a cooler in the trunk for beers....: Even if you dont play the "sports" that some people play, you can fit plenty of beer in the very roomy trunk. But if you prefer playing 'hole in one' with all your male friends you can do that too. (sorry I love to rag on golf)

    - fit all my groceries in the trunk after going to Costco: once again if you don't like your cars with "bonnets", and know what practical is, then the problem with that Porsche is obvious

    Oh and did I mention it is all wheel drive, unlike the M3 and some Porsche?

    Well when it came down to it, I thought I could either spend upwards of 70Gs on a Porsche or M3, or I could spend 30Gs on an STi, a car which is specifically rated among the top ten best value-holding cars.
    If you are the kind of person that likes spending 40 grand on a name, then by all means the Porsche or Beamer is the way to go. However if you can find better uses for 40Gs than sinking it into a car that will lose that value in 4 years, then consider an STi, or an S2000 if you want a convertible. Personally, I took that 40Gs, got my wife a nice new car, remodeled my kitchen and bathrooms, and had money left to spare.
    But hey, If you are filthy rich and dont live in the real world, I guess that isnt a problem.
  • diablo_negro, do you mind explaining yourself a bit better?

    As I see it, there is absolutely no comparison:

    BMW M3 (E46): 3.2L I6, 333hp, 262ft-lb
    Chevy Camaro (LB8): 2.8L V6, 135hp, 165ft-lb
  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 139
    I heard somewhere on the forums that in early March, there will be news. I hope so, that's only a few weeks away. Can anyone confirm this??

    I'm on the waiting list at BMW of San Diego. :shades:

    San Diego
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    ....but perhaps not in the right direction? I have driven neither but the earlier car looks -- and by all accounts, was -- raw, visceral and exciting to drive -- in a way that the WRX is now. Also, it would have been nice if the 3 series coupe had been pillarless. The E90 coupe, especially, looks big -- almost CSi size. Probably just me, but the new one looks isolating, hyper-fast and intimidating rather than fun. It would be a much better proposition in Germany where it could be cruised at 130 to 150 as intended, than in the US. A car designed to be driven extremely fast. Even in my 325i I'm reminded daily on the open road that the car can be drive nowhere near its natural pace. The car's just beginning to settle down.

    The irony is that the freeway driving around here is so ill-informed, stupid and aggressive (weaving, passing on the right, cruising in the middle or left lane rather than right hand lane, no use of signals or hazard flashers) I'd almost advocate lowering the limit.
  • james31278james31278 Posts: 78
    I love the new M3 as well as the E46, they are classy road rockets.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,296
    The E30 and E46 are my favorites; I'll have to drive the E92 before I can express an opinion.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • james31278james31278 Posts: 78
    If I get the chance to I'll drive the new one.
  • hey.. just reposting some pictures. i guess i gotta link it this time, the files were too big and slowing a lotta peoples computers. so, here you go, pictures of the new m3 caught testing out in nevada! heres the pix off my myspace blog
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 974
    Looks like your MySpace blog's set to private.

    You can open your own CarSpace here and load your photos there -- it's free and it's fun :-) Here's a link to mine:

    Claire's CarSpace

    Need help getting around? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • jmarounjmaroun Posts: 139
    I know, the title sounds like nonsense. I mean, just look at what the industry has pumped out of its design rooms for 2008! We've got BMW's E92 M3 and 335i, Lexus' ISF, Merc's C63 AMG, Audi's RS4/S4/&S5, Mitshibish's Evolution X, Suburu's new WRX, Nissan's GTR supercar outta nowhere, up to Porsche's 997 line up including the new GT2, Ferrari's Scuderia.. and it goes on.

    All of'em boosted up the wazoo with more power, more torque, fancy suspensions, and spancy dual clutch tranny's. Ok, so you're probably wondering, WTF is the problem then B#$! :) And WhyTF are you complaining here, in an M3 forum of all places??? Those may sound like good questions to many of you, but the mere fact that my qualms aren't obvious to so many is probably THE source of the problem in the first place! Yeah, I'm blaming the average consumer..for inducing the industry into causing this mess, this embarrassing mess IMO.

    This here article goes out to the manufactures who got it all wrong and to the average joe auto consumers who need educating. True enthusiasts already know, and all you fanboys are beyond help so click the back radio dial button on your web browser now.

    Let me elucidate:

    I post this Here, in an M3 forum at Edmunds for various reasons. Firstly because I respect Edmunds reviews and have used their valuable site for years. Secondly, because I know I wont get hassled here by A-hole m3forum/m3post moderators and fanboys. Thirdly and most importantly, I post on an M3 thread because, I've anticipated and waited for this new M3 for years!..and have been utterly disappointed in many ways. This car was supposed to be the car I drive in 2008!

    Here's the gripe already. From an auto-enthusiast's point of view, ALL of the cars listed above severely disappoint in at least one way or another. Let's go down the line shall we?

    BMW's E92 M3: This car was supposed to be perfect! Why? Because the E46 M3 was nearly perfect! Instead, it turned out to be a muscle head GT highway gas guzzling cruiser. I didn't want a fuel inefficient V8 with today's gas prices! What gives with the macho man's crotch bulge on the hood? The view of which is unavoidable from the &#147;cockpit&#148;; pun intended. The front grill no longer has the classic E46,M5 beauty/coolness. The steering feel is numb at low to medium speeds where most people need it most for driving enjoyment. <- this was and is the deal breaker for me..but there are more flaws. The interior isn't much more inspiring than a bland 328's. The rear bumper is overly complicated with busy grooves. Its performance isn't much better than a typical 335i with a 2k Dinnan software patch. Why pay extra for the M3?? car..

    BMW's 335i: Well, actually, this car is Nearly a perfect car. Outta the bunch, its rather simple being rear drive 6cyl with 50/50 weight and excellent steering feel and handling. The car has lotsa usable torque at very low rpm's and will spool with minimal turbo lag all the way to 7000rpms maintaining high torque across a wide band! I&#146;m VERY happy with all of these aspects. The big gripe with the 335i is its appearance. Inside and out, the car is bland. Elegant perhaps, but why did they dull down this superbly sporty car so much??? Previous 3series cars inspired and were more aggressively sporty looking. As a typical enthusiast, who is a bit more extreme in spirit than in driving expertise; I want a more sporty, meaner, COOLER, looking car darn it while at the same time I want a car that retains that business suit professional look that BMW knows best.

    Lexus ISF: Ok..the looks of this car have grown on me a little bit but I wont tell you what I still think F stands for though. What the hell, FUGLY. Sorry Lexus. My main gripe with this car however is not its looks. After all, this car is probably the most fuel efficient and reliable V8 outa the bunch. The problem is, it has a V8. I don't like, and its transmission has been described as having one too many gears for its own good.

    Merc's C63 AMG: Now, this car is a extremely snobbish monster, bordering on reckless. Again, it&#146;s an overkill gas guzzling V8 that's Way too heavy. Had this car weighed the same as the E92 M3, I would&#146;ve probably settled for it.

    Audi's S4/RS4/&S5: All of these cars are gas-guzzlers and very heavy. They typically have uninvolved steering feel. Basically major deal breakers.

    Mitshibish's Evolution X & Suburu's new WRX: Ok these cars are wonderfully too complicated and a bit ugly to be frank. I appreciate the effort, and had I wanted to rally race a production car..these would be my top choices. Oh well..

    Nissan's GTR: WOW..this car got my attention quick. Basically, it's like an all in one multifunction laser jet printer with fax, scanner, modem, ipod jack and all for a relatively cheap price. I mean, it&#146;s got 4wd, dual clutch transmission, a fancy transaxle and suspension, 4 seats, a funky performance monitor/display, plenty of trunk room, and with supercar beating performance. All for a base price of under 70k to boot! I really like the GTR on many fronts's got major flaws too! Rear seat room is F'ing crampt! Yes,..that matters to me dammit! If the car proclaims to be a four seater..then they aught provide respectable seats. The other gripe is with its looks..Come on, I mean it looks like a freagin transformer that got stuck in mid transformation for goodness sake. It also lacks a business suit professional touch that should come with a car cost'n upward of 70k! And Everyone is talk&#146;n bout how cheap the GTR is..Come On! That's BS!!!! 70k MSRP is NOT cheap..we're talking near 80k out the door probably even with no markups that are highly anticipated! The price tag is barely attainable to the average mid income auto enthusiast/consumer. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate Nissan's effort on this car. It's nearly perfect in all respects where it counts. They&#146;ve raised the bar, and eyebrows of those who&#146;ve paid much much more for less performance! Even if I don&#146;t buy your car, Thank You Nissan!

    Porsche&#146;s 997s: These cars are obviously out of reach to most folks. A troubling question suddenly now exists for those who can afford the car. Why do these cars cost so much when the GTR beats almost every one for at least 30k less? WTF? It kinda puts a nasty negative light on Porsche IMO.

    The same argument goes for Ferrari's line up. Nuff said, I can&#146;t afford them cars any way.
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