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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I happen to be the Editor in Chief of several scientific publications
    and accuracy of language is all-important.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    When I go on major trips I use my GX470 so trunk space is a nonissue for me. I'm signed for the 600HL first and a LWB LS460L sport edition second right now. My lease ends in late March and the two biggest concerns I have on the LS600HL are whether it's here (and available) by that time and whether or not it doesn't shock us with a $100K+ entry pricepoint. Had dinner with someone over the weekend who told me that Lexus market research shows that people will pay mighty big bucks for high end Lexus cars. Seeing that $91K on the LS460L is further proof of that. Can a BMW 7 (other than the 12 Cyl) even get to that price?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    We have also been using my wife's RX400h for long trips but I am thinking that the LS600HL will be so fun to drive and so comfortable that it will be pleasure-full to drive on long trips. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about any lease with my LS430. So, I am ready for the LS600HL as soon as it gets here.

    My thinking is that there will indeed be an overlap with pricing between the fully loaded LS460L and the standard version LS600HL. I bet prices range between about 87K (standard version) and 100K+ for the ultimate (or is it "penultimate" ;-)) version. I imagine the standard LS600HL will have the majority of the options on the LS460L.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Cyclone - I'm inclined to agree with you on price (note my earlier post) but I'm telling you the Lexus name is more golden than I knew so I just have my fears on price. When I say major trips I'm talking 1200 mile vacation drives to South Carolina. I always drive for the simple reason that I stay 1-2 weeks and rather have my own wheels than a rental. We have friends in several places down there and will roam from Wilmington to Pauley's Island several times in a 2 week stay. Typically I stay in North Myrtle. But any shorter stay trip and I'm in the LS. I hit 105 mph and it felt like 55 on I95 in North Carolina a few years ago in my 2001 LS. Since then I set the cruise at 80mph for my own sake.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    I don't think Lexus is going to go off the deep end on pricing of the LS600HL. Yes, I was a bit surprised to see that the fully loaded LS460L is priced at 91K, but let's face it. A lot of this extra cost is due to that ottoman/massaging back seat option. A friend of mine today showed me the detailed specs on the LS460L he is about to get for 78K. This includes the most popular options like the Mark Levinson audio system, navigation, and the new parking assist feature. Thus, the 87-100K+ price range for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense to me.
  • Yes indeed, the jump to $91K is largely due that special order Executive Class seating. Having read extensively about the motors used for the shoulder, shiatsu, etc. massage it has given me the impression that buying that special order is like buying a massage chair, along with the DVD player, tray table, etc etc.

    Lexus evidently wants the high-rollers to pay up some big bucks for that configuration...namely those folks who shell out $5,000+ for First Class airline seats, or even more for private jet expenses, etc. Indeed those who could care less about losing the 5-seat capacity for a 4-seat sybarite's haven.

    IMO, the 5-seat LS 460 L is very nice indeed, and more versatile. I only wish Lexus had done as in the Japan and Europe markets, and offered the RSES as a standalone option. Hopefully the coolbox, basic recline seats are still available--just like the Ultra Luxury version on the LS 430. It would be good to have the LS back seat area continue to have these features in some degree of abundance.
  • ikey78ikey78 Posts: 28
    The $91,000 LWB car with the exec seating package does not include Pre Collision and Radar Cruise control (PS). This is according to the information posted by the JM Lexus Florida dealership on Clublexus. This means that a truly fully loaded LS 460L will sticker in the mid 90K range.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I tend to agree with you guys on prices - I just want to see it in print. Remember the NY Times and some others have noted prices to $120K and after checking the 7 series last night I couldn't get a 750LI to the price points of the high end LS460L configs. So at $91K Lexus isn't hesitating to blow past BMW prices. My belief remains that we won't see 600HL prices like that because Lexus will bring in a car above that car by 2009 which technically is one year later. Remember the 600HL will have a 2008 designation.

    ikey78 - are we sure that is MSRP or is it a JM asking price? In 2001 some LS430 ultras went $5-10K over sticker at the beginning.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Let's say that the loaded LS460L with PCS comes in at $95K (assuming that's MSRP but it may be an asking price over MSRP) then maybe we can piece together the LS 600HL better.

    See if I miss anything here but the options on the 600HL are:

    A. 4 seat pckge
    B. dynamicr radar cruise (amazing that it's not std)
    C. Lexus Link (I thought it died)
    D. Rear climate seats
    E. Pre-collision
    F. 4 zone climate control

    We already know the 4 seat package is $10K. I'd say that PCS is at least $5K and everything else is $5K for a grand optioning total of $20K excluding anything special like wheels from the dealer. So pick your starting point. Are we $10K,$15K or $20K over the LS460L starting point. Whatever we settle on I'd say 15K of the options are then tied up in the 4 seat package (which most of us won't want) and in the PCS. Lexus Link, Dynamic radar cruise and rear climate seats will likely be standardized options built into every 600HL that ships here. I'd say the 4 seat option is special order and I don't know where they go with PCS.

    What do you guys think?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Just me talking, I'm still not sold on the hybrid technology as being "cost effective". With the premium you have to pay to get one, and the potential savings on gas, it doesn't pencil for at least 200,000 CITY miles, because as you all know, the highway mileage is the same, or worse, as the 460 will be. The impact on the environment is neutral in my mind as well, due to the battery disposal issue. The cost of replacement batteries scares me, and the weight and loss of trunk space doesn't thrill me. I actually got a flat screen TV in my trunk IN THE BOX! The clerk was amazed, as was I.

    I just don't think the hybrid is a long term strategy. I think it's a stop-gap to make us feel better about ourselves. The one plus from my vantage point is the power output is outstanding, but given the other drawbacks, I'd rather have a V-12.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Recall that the "base" LWB has Nav/HDD, back-up camera, XM, climate-control seats, power rear sunshade, power trunk open/close... all standard, adding $10K to "base" SWB for these features.

    So let's extrapolate to the 600hL which will have all of the 460L features, plus ML, LED hi/low beams, 19" wheels, Park assist, smart key, AWD, bigger 5.0L motor, batteries, higher output (444hp), E-CVT, and adaptive variable air suspension, all standard... I'd say these should add $15-20K premium to "base" 460L.

    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I'm thinking the same thing. A LWB car that is configured at $74-80K looks like one heck of a buy.

    BTW crude oil is now in the $57.70 range and I'm paying $2.19 - $2.24 for 89 octane and $2.29 - $2.35 for 93.

    "Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++."

    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned my wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I agree with you. In fact, with the features already standard on the LWB, plus ML and Touring Package, you'd be at ~$80K even. That is a premium over the S550, with far more features.

    The SWB I am looking at will sticker at $71K, which is 5K over my target, but still do-able...

    OPEC cut production by 1m bpd today, so we should expect a slight uptick soon... And who knows what geo-political event lies ahead with Iran, which should push the price of oil to the $100 mark pretty quick... Here in my neck of the woods, 89 Octane is $2.35 and 91 is $2.59 / gallon.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Don't know if OPEC cuts will matter. The supply was always ample, That was a bubble we were in. I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned bu wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.

    ooppss.. I forgot about the higher version above the LS series (rumored L650, with a V10 or V12 motor)). That's the super exclusive model, which should be competing at the S600-S65 price.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.

    I have to disagree.... In fact I see oil going HIGHER in the future not lower. Demand from China and India will increase, supply will decrease, and add in geopolitical events in Russia and the Middle East (lots bubbling underneath in these countries) which would exacerbate oil price to the higher range. I'd say we should enjoy the days of sub-$3 /gallon gasoline for now. Its gonna get worse.

    I'll e-mail you on some of this stuff privately, look out for it soon...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    I know it's impossible to keep track of all the posts, so I'll just throw a reminder at you. You can verify that I posted on the HELM forum, as far back as April 14th, that the MSRP for the LS600hL will be $91,350.

    I've never adjusted my prediction at any time, and I still stand by it.

    God only knows how far off I'll be, but my prediction was made well before ANY new LS pricing was announced whatsoever.

    To be honest, it was a gut call, based upon what I knew of the vehicle, it's specifications, and my perception of Lexus marketing.

    And, I'm having an extra dose of fun waiting to see how close I come.

    BTW, I agree with you on the oil scenario. It will get worse over time. This easing of prices was only natural. Oil prices are kind of like using a yo-yo while walking up a mountain . . . ups and downs while the overall trend goes higher.

    TagMan
  • Lexus Link was discontinued for the 2004- LS 430, but has been brought back for the LS 460, apparently with new organization, etc. It might be similar, but have nowhere near the functions, of the LS 460 G-Book in Japan, which offers--music downloads, an internal security camera that allows you to check on your LS via cellphone when it is in the parking lot, etc etc. Remote start is another Japan-only option...

    I agree Dynamic Radar should be standard, but we are seeing the LS 460 'bargain' base models be somewhat decontented (some even with no NAVI screen). It seems that the 2007 LS has a very large range of options and features, from basic to maxed out, fully loaded.

    As for the hybrid, I think it's pretty clear that the only hybrids that will actually save you money are the Prius and its competitors, which according to Consumer Reports will give you a few hundred dollars of savings after 5 years or so. The LS 600h L is about more power, lower emissions, and better but not superlative fuel economy. We'll have to wait and see about the trunk space--recently Lexus has not been shy about restricting it, and with the new LS, the different A/C filter options already intrude on trunk space.

    Lastly, I hope the L600 or L650 is targeted at Rolls/Bentley/Maybach, and maybe with super S600 pricing. But I believe the LS 600h L is the rightful vehicle to target the S600, content wise.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    Your pricing and option breakdown for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense. Is it possible that the starting point is in the low 80sK?? If you recall, I posted last night that I saw my friend's LS460L pricing at $78K. This includes the Mark Levinson system, the new Navigation system, and the new parking assist as options and perhaps one or two more other minor options. It does not include the radar cruise control. I imagine this option is about 2K which would bring the cost up to about 80K. So, theoretically, it is possible that the 600HL could start in the low 80sK but not likely. We probably need to add about 5K premium for hybrid version and here we are in the high 80sK. I really believe that this is where the 600HL will start.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    When I was at the auto show I was told pricing wasn't set but likely would range from $82K - $102K. But it looks to me that Lexus studies show an ability to charge more so I'm liking a range of your starting point of $87K to OAC's $90K. I do think we'll have a $20K spread between base and fully optioned which is consistent with the range I was given at the auto show. After thinking about it the marketing in me says the logical range is $89,995 - $109,995 fully loaded with PCS and the 4 seat package. I think you'll see most cars ship in the $94-95K range with the handful of lower priced options configured into every car. That's why I call those things standardized options.
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