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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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  • One Ting: The LS already runs around 6 seconds with 290HP, so adding 60HP, plus torque, would make it into mid-5s, as long as the car stays south of 4300 lbs.

     

      A 450HP car depends on weight being under 5000 lbs.

     

      Lexus is nothing if not efficient, even in their LS brouchures stating NO CAR should weight 2 1/2 tons!

     

      2nd Ting: Lexus will stay under $65k with the new car!

     

      Value is their advantage in the market. They have a deathgrip on the market, approaching a 3:1 sales advantage over the Germans, which means TWO TINGS:

     

      1st Ting: They can sell for more.

     

      Second Ting: They need to keep this advantage WHILE selling for more!

     

      I'd guess a low $60s price, and a nice package to keep the prie around $70k, then anoher package to move the price to $80k, then you start the LWB model around there, with MUCH more power & economy than a S500!

     

      That model should be pretty loaded, and top out short of $90k.

     

      People are trumping up the next S-Class.

     

      It'll be a knocked-off Maybach. It could work, but I don't know what the base car will pack, or will price, so we'll see.

     

      This new LS will be like an Atomic Bomb in the market! I think the 7-series, in particular will be crushed, as it won't recover from the damage this generation has done to new and repeat buyers. The styling, ergonomics, and quality have really hurt the whole line.

     

       

      DrFill
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    It bears no striking resemblance to the LF-S, imo. What's with those different rims ??? Is that how new cars are tested, or is it a photochopped pic of the Avalon stretched to look like an LS?
  • It's not a next LS, It's a toyota Crown. A sport sedan with RWD and AWD of toyota as shown on toyota website. It about the size of the last generation LS400. I believed it has been release in Europe. This will kill Ford 500, and chrysler 300.
  • I generally get the impression the LS will have a much bolder look than that.

     

       You can tell by that rear door the car is less than 5 meters.

     

       DrFill
  • Lexus Division General Manager Denny Clements announced at the NADA convention that just finished up the following official new redesign products and release dates:

      

    GS 350/GS 460 Spring 2005

    IS 250/IS 350 Fall 2005

    ES 350 Spring 2006

    GS 450h Spring 2006

    LS 460 Fall 2006

      

    As you can see, the new LS will be 4.6 liters and a 2007 model. I hope this helps with the limited flow of accurate new model release dates from Lexus.
  • For months it's been GS300 this and that. Lexus themselves have been putting over the 3.0 engine.

     

       Nothing else there surprises me. The GS hybrid should be given some time to flourish before the LS arrives.

     

       I wonder when the 5.0 V8 arrives. Is that a facelift addition.

     

       DrFill
  • So the engine powering the next-generation GS will produce more than 300 horsepower?
  • (Check their website), this adds credence to the potential 300HP version of the 3.5. Danny Clements said this GS will be the best-performing Lexus ever, so hopefully he has some heavy weapons up his sleeve, as not enough has changed yet.

     

        DrFill
  • Did Clements reveal whether the LS460 intro would include a hybrid version?
  • No, he stopped with the new 2007 LS460 introduction and only published the new sedan releases. However, I expect that they will follow the pattern of the new GS with a LS 450h in the fall of 2007 as a 2008 model. The big question I would have is if the LS will actually pack more power and maybe something like a LS 500h.

     

    It make sense to me that they would want to have at least a year with the regular gasoline version of a totally new model before they make the leap to the hybrid. In fact, for any automobile company other than Lexus/Toyota I would say that only a year would be pushing it too much. However, as many of you have noted, Lexus has demonstrated that they are the master of automotive product execution.
  • The LS will have a L460h LWB for 2009, and a L500 LWB model.

     

       DrFill
  • No this is certainly not the Lexus LS sedan. From what I heard people whom are currently working on this project at Higashi-Fuji Technical Center (東富士研究&amp- ;#25152;), the first prototype of this vechile would not be produce until May of this year.

    Hope this would help

    Ken
  • jvcnjvcn Posts: 50
    Praise the Lord! There's still hope that the LS won't be ruined.
  • Since Japanese is my native language, let me help you to translate this article. Basically what the person said in the article is the new LS sedan would have a 4.6 liter engine, a hybrid version for the 4.5 liter engine and a 5.0 liter GT version. Other sources (outside this article) from Japan also claim there would be also a traditional 5.0 liter engine available for the LS and a stretch wheelbase model for each displacement model on the LS sedan as an option. These rumors have being confirmed in several Japanese automotive forums and my discussion with some of the researchers working on this project on Higashi-Fuji Technical Center in Japan, but there's always a chance Toyota might change their mind at last moment before the LS release date. Now the question is would the GT version would import a hybrid powerplant like the 4.5 liter version as well? the general consent currently flowing around the Japanese forum is "YES", however it's still early to tell and we hope that more information such as photos would become available once the first prototype of this vehicle is made at around May of this year.

    Now allow me to explain what is main target market for the LS sedan; like always their major competition would point directly to the Mercedes S-class but this time the LS model would take onto the entire S-Class Line-up and would try to suppress the current and the future S-class sedan in all aspects such as interior dimensions, power, driving dynamics, etc. Here's are the breakdown of possible competitions:

    LS460 would compete S430

    LS500 GT would compete S55

    LS450 hybrid?? or LS500 hybrid would compete S600??

    Okay this would be as far as I would talk about the LS sedan today, I would continue with a discussion about the possible release date for the LS sedan and other interesting rumors about the LS sedan on a later date

    Ken
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Thank you for your post! Please do keep on providing info for us as it becomes available, both on the LS and other future Lexus vehicles.
  • LS460, LS460 LWB

       LS450h, LS450h LWB

       LS500, LS500 LWB

     

       I can't see that happening, a one model, one trim lineup becoming a family of six in one generation.

     

       Why make three engines? Why make a 4.5 and 4.6? Why not a hybrid 4.6?

       

       Lexus is way too efficient to make two seperate engines so close in size for the same car.

     

       DrFill
  • What I am talking about is only some speculation of the car currently flowing around the Japanese Automotive forum. Nothing that I or any of my friends back in Japan have confirm such information so far about the engine displacement. But we are very certain as state in the last post that just like the Mercedes S-Class there would be a stretch wheel base version for the future LS model unless if they change their mind at last moment. Your point does made sense in terms of to make one the 4.6 liter in Gaslionie and a hybrid using the 4.6 liter as well since it's the most cost efficient way to do. I also hear there's a couple of Japanese people raise the similar concern too back in the Japanese forum and I hope there would be some answers available may-be next or so

    Hope this would help

    Ken
  • Wow it did. A strech LS? You can bet that the 4.6L will be one helluva lot more powerful than the 4.3.... but here's the problem. If it becomes less of a rolling cloud, it will lose a large hunk of its fan base. You know, people who like to sleep while riding. Or read, or don't want to be rattled like peas in a pod. A 5.0 engine scares me slightly, because it sounds like a jab at the S55AMG, but you can bet it'll be cheaper.

     

    I love the Lexus hybrid idea because so many rich and famous people want these hybrids, and they have to make do with a Prius to get a full hybrid. (Or a Ford Escape, but it's too normal looking)

     

    The Accord hybrid looks like a regualr Accord, and they sell so many that it is very ordinary. Ditto the Civic. The Insight is too weird. Lexus comes in with

     

    a) luxury. Cloud-like

    b) a hint of sport (LS500??)

    c) long wheelbase (kind of like an Arnage, eh?)

    d) HYBRID=STYLE

     

    Add to that the expected GS hybrid, and Lexus has a very stylish portfolio. Now if only they would fix the ES330.... and the IS....

     

    A ri ga to u go za i ma su

     

    Err... my Japanese sucks.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    If Lexus follows the naming convention used with the RX400h, might not an LS450h have a less-than-4.5L gasoline engine? For instance might it have a 3.5L gas engine coupled with the hybrid elements to give 4.5L-like performance?
  • I'd make the LS460 SWB ($64,995)

     

       Den, the LS500 LWB. ($79,995)

     

       Then the LS460h LWB. ($84,995)

     

       That's it.

     

       DrFill
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    For the interpretation of the link, and the tidbits from the japanese Automotive Forum. Like syswei said, pls keep us updated on whatever else you find out about the Lexus releases. Surely appreciated.

     

    I am looking forward to the LS460, which I can speculate to be in the 340bhp-ish range. The 5L GT has been said to be the V12-like performer but with a V6 fuel economy, at ~500bhp total output. That should do well going against the S600. But I don't see a direct competitor against the S500. Would that be the LS460 LWB, or the LS500 SWB ?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yeah, that's a Photoshop SKETCH from someone with a sense of refinement. If the next LS looks something like that I'd buy it on the spot. Expect the same BS direction that BMW and Mercedes are pursuing.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Designman: we have you on record now ! The next LS will be close to that sketch. How do I know ? Cos Lexus execs have been saying how much evolutionary the new LS will be, as it did in 1989. Now, I am hoping its not just BS from Denny and his cohorts....

     

    BUT, if the new LS is anything close to that picture, the Germans will have a lot to worry about.
  • I do apologize my slow reply due to timezone difference between Japan and America and I am amazed the amount of since I left the forum by last night!!! Since some of the problems people posted in this forum are very interesting and I might not be able to answer all of them since my knowledge in some areas about the LS are quite limited. So instead I have translated and forwarded your messages to Yomiuri and Carmode automotive forum, where some of our best experts regarding this topic would assess and respond in Japanese to all your concerns as soon as they respond all the remaining post left in the forum.

    Nevertheless, I am also trying to get an access to the recent carmode magazine that was published on Jan 28, which has a coverage for the LS500 sedan both the traditional and GT version. Because this issue has being out of stock a day after it’s release, many of us have to wait a week or two to get a copy directly from the publisher and hopefully my copy by tomorrow morning as they promise me in the e-mail.

    Please note that you might need to enlarge and focus it on your computer and youu would see the LS500 was marked in red ink on the coverpage

    Note: Because of issue of copyright, the name it L500 used in the publication is actually to LS 500, hope you will understand

    Here's the link: which lead you to the cover page of the issue:

    http://www.carmode.net/carmode/eshop/magazine/car/ct/cartop.html

    Okay I have to go for lunch right now, and hope to see you all soon!

    Ken
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Thanks for your insights. I'm curious as to how hot Lexus is becoming in Japan and Asia vs. the other luxury nameplates. Also what happens to Toyota's version of the current LS430 (Celsior, I believe) during the transition period when the Lexus brand comes to market.

     

    The news I had heard on the LS was that the short wheel base car would be the LS450 (now it seems LS460) and it would have a hybrid option and an LS500 would be the long wheel base car and with it comes a hybrid version that competes with MB's S600 (this is the car OAC was referring to with fabulous HP and mileage). I didn't know how they would offer their tuned car versions of any of these though.
  • That's not the next LS, it's the Toyota Crown shown here months back and other sites. The AutoSpies (actually one guy) are bunch of tabloid amateurs of the auto world. That car's a carbon copy of the Crown.

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/crownroyal/exterior/i- - mages/ex02_svg.jpg
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    from consumerguide: "a redesigned LS is due for 2007 to cap a top-to-bottom makeover for all Lexus sedans...the 460 is expected to feature a new Vehicle Dynamic Management system (VDM) that integrates antiskid/traction control with Lexus's first "by-wire" antilock brakes...Word is that overall length is little changed, but that wheelbase, height and maybe width show slight gains. All-wheel drive may be available, perhaps standard."

     

    full article http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 38166
  • sis2sis2 Posts: 6
    Can anyone knowledgeable about the market answer this please. Would it make sense (depreciation effect) to buy a new 2005 Lexus LS430, when the redesign is approaching in '07? I had intended to buy an '05 in March, but now I'm reconsidering. Maybe I should buy an '03 and trade it in Dec '07???
  • Score a 2-year lease, then you'll be out with the '07 out only 3 months or so, you can get one south of sticker.

     

      DrFill
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