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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    The 6 cyl mid level lux car always badly outsells the 8cyl. This is across the board in each nameplate.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Expect to see the LS460 maybe in September of 2006. The current LS is great (its always been a great car, I've had one since 1996) but the the 2001 LS430 was a somewhat evolutionary step over the last LS400 design. I think the next LS will be a pretty radical step forward, one that will be worth waiting another year for.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    "I think it is very possible the Japanese will rule the auto industry."

    There's a startling article on the future of the auto industry in current Automobile. In 2000, the 3 biggest markets are US/Japan/Germany. In 2030, the 3 biggest will be China/India/US, in that order. Something tells me Chinese and Indian consumers will prefer their home teams and not let the foreigners rule over them. It's consumers in China and India who will determine losers and winners among today's auto companies really!

    Regarding LF-A. Porsche and Ferrari ruled the auto sports world 30 years ago, and that duopoly will be there 30 years from now. Despite the best efforts of Audi (R9, Lambo), MB (SLR), Toyota (LF-A), Nissan (GTR). Audi's effort is pretty credible though, it dominated Le Mans for quite a while. If there's a third member to the governing elite, it's BMW. Sports cars require heritage, so no Chinese or Indian here. But don't be surprised if Porsche or Ferrari falls into their hands!
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,676
    Let's not get distracted - this discussion is for the Lexus LS only. If you want to discuss Lexus' successes or failures, please do so on the News & Views board. This topic is specifically not about the GS. Further off-topic posts will be deleted without notice.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I overlooked the fact that it said the LS460 would come to market next spring. If they are right then the next LS and the next S hit the US market at at the same time. My dealer had said the car could be a spring 06 debut as an 07 car but I had started to feel that it would be a traditional September start date. Then the 600H comes in late 2007per the C&D blip. But that 18 month time horizon seems far too long a wait. I think the LS460 is pegged too early or the 600H is pegged too late by C&D.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Actually no, it's not a pretty old engine. The engine was heavily reworked for the 1998 model year when they added VVTi to the engine to begin with. Except for the engine block, basically everything was redesigned on the engine. You are correct, the engine dates back to 1990, but it has changed significantly in the time since.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "In 2030, the 3 biggest will be China/India/US, in that order. Something tells me Chinese and Indian consumers will prefer their home teams and not let the foreigners rule over them. It's consumers in China and India who will determine losers and winners among today's auto companies really!"

    I doubt Indian consumer's will prefer their home team car makers over the foreign makes if their cars are inferior. Already the biggest carmaker in India is a joint venture between Suzuki and a Indian company. The suzuki cars capture close to 50% of the consumer market. General Motors and Ford are also big sellers. GM sells many Isuzu designed vehicles as Chevy models over there. As well as Opel's are sold there. And recently, Honda and Toyota are making big inroads. The only strong homegrown Indian Automaker is Tata, which is doing quite well and even imports cars to parts of Europe these days. From experience though, Indian culture loves American stuff. They devour our music, movies, clothing brands, etc. I think if anything, GM, Toyota, Ford & Tata will end up being the top 4 brands. China on the otherhand, is alot more protectionist, and they will probably over the long term prefer their homegrown brands, but so far foreign carmakers like GM, Toyota, VW, & BMW are doing quite well.
  • rgswrgsw Posts: 333
    Concur with "HOST", this forum has degraded into a general forum for luxury and other cars. Let's get it back on topic....... 2007 LS
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    "Maybe you know much more about this subject than I do - but Ford is working with the toroidal CVT according to an engineer friend - and if they can afford it, Toyota can surely afford it, and the LS would be the place to deploy it. "

    Sorry, slow to get back as I had not heard of Ford and a Toroidal CVT trany. I cannot find any mention of it for production though - so maybe your engineering friend knows more than I do on that score. A web search seems to show them working on a full-toroidal IVT with a company called Torotrak - smaller, very fuel efficient and with geared neutral (neat). But the question still remains, has the LS got an expensive toroidal CVT or an 8-speed cog automatic trany?

    I still have my doubts about the CVT/IVT possibility, but I also think a normal 8-speed might be a busy shifter - which are you hoping for?
  • I also have my doubts on the CVT on the 460 and the GT versions. However it is very much possible that the 600h will have a CVT, considering that 400h has a CVT. And because that will probably reduce the quality of the ride, the 8-speed tranny, that would be a very busy shifter. I am thinking either a revised version of the 6-speed the LS has now, or a new 7-speed.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Assuming you are not watching the IS or GS boards, you might want to be aware that there is a general consensus among people interested in the IS that VDIM should have an on/off switch, so that the driver at his option can disable it. For example see: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106455#25

    I do understand that switching it off would have a safety impact, but I am sure Lexus could provide a label with that disclaimer.

    P.S. I am not suggesting that such an option is needed for the LS. But the IS and GS, given their more sporty orientation, could use it.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    syswei: "But the IS and GS, given their more sporty orientation, could use it."

    You are too nice to put it so mildly. Instead of "could use it", I'd say "NEEDS IT". Lexus should stop playing cop-and-robber. They either want to provide a sporty car, or want to provide a luxury car ? The LS is plenty luxurious for those inclined for such, the IS should be the complete opposite - plenty sporty, without any need for an intrusive nanny. Imagine the build quality, refinement and luxury features of an IS combined with the edgy performance of a WRX/STi or Evo in the 2006 IS350? That car will rock the world of the e90/G/Audi and re-define the sector... Suffice to say, that it'd be a winner anyday.... Why-o-why won't Lexus take their foot off the *safety-at-all-cost* for the IS and let this car be a true sport-biased luxury sedan as everyone wants it to be ???? I'll repeat myself here: LEXUS, are you listening ?????
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Agreed. It is especially true with the IS that Lexus should go "all the way" with sport, because it is similar in price to the ES, so the ES can serve the cushy-ride type of buyer.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Before Lexus goes to 8 speeds, I'd like to see them properly program the 6 speed. It is way too anxious to upshift and way too reluctant to downshift. I am very disappointed in it.
  • AMEN!!!!! basically every other luxury nameplate that has, a safety system... has an override option; or isnt has 'parenting' as the Lexus systems. The last GS had this option, but it wouldn't fully turn off. why oh why cant lexus listen to its customers, and just have an 'off' switch.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Does anybody have anything new to add?
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    "I also have my doubts on the CVT on the 460 and the GT versions. However it is very much possible that the 600h will have a CVT, considering that 400h has a CVT. And because that will probably reduce the quality of the ride, the 8-speed tranny, that would be a very busy shifter. I am thinking either a revised version of the 6-speed the LS has now, or a new 7-speed. "

    I was following the 8-speed debate because according to clublexus it has an 8-speed:-

    LS460:
    Development code name: 070X
    Production code name: 250L
    Length: 5,100mm (vs. 5,025mm of LS430)
    Width: 1,850mm (vs. 1,830mm of LS430)
    Height: 1,480mm (vs. 1,490mm/1,470mm (air suspension) of LS430)
    Wheelbase: 2,980mm (vs. 2,925mm of LS430)
    Engine: 4UZ-FSE 4.6L V-8 (vs......well we all know)
    Horsepower: 350hp @ 6,000rpm (vs. 290hp @ 5,600rpm)
    Torque: 48.0kgm @ 3,300rpm (vs. 42.5kgm of LS430)
    Transmission: 8-speed automatic (!!)
    Fuel efficiency average: 9.5km/l (=22.35mpg, vs. 18/25mpg of LS430)


    Maybe Kevin can add a comment, and tidy up the 8-speed question. I'm going to guess the LS600H 7-speed is the same as the one announced for the GS450H, I don't think it is CVT based though, which is odd as all the other Toyota hybrid trannies are CVT based.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    More LS tidbits, this one from Motor Trend :

    Lexus is developing an 8-speed transmission for the 2009 LSS, the V12 stretched version of the next gen LS.

    Well it seems Lexus is going that three model route, LS460, LS600H and LSS in this new generation car and with tuning options on top of that. It's what I've heard for awhile now and each new level will have rapidly increasing power plants. But this opens the door for a flood of questions. Is the stretched car only available with the V12 engine? I doubt it. It was supposed to be available in the mid level car and standard on the high-end car. Next question - Why buy a V12 when you get V12 power with V6 economy in the V8 600H? The only answer I can think of is that this LSS is their super $105-115K+ car and maybe it will be a V12 hybrid breaking newer ground still. I'll bet this LSS is the 600HP car that my dealer told me they were coming to market with. It drew a lot of disbelief here but if the 600h gets high 4's to 500 then the next level up will have to go another 100HP or more higher. Supposedly this new LSS begins production in early 2008 so it is probably an April 2008 debut as a 2009 model.

    I'm still wondering if Car and Driver has it right with the LS460 debut as sping 2006. Do we really have a new LS in 9 months??
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "A web search seems to show them working on a full-toroidal IVT with a company called Torotrak - smaller, very fuel efficient and with geared neutral (neat)."

    That's it, nissman - I was a little foggy, it's been a while. I don't know when they'll get it out, but they think they can get a ton of mileage from an Expedition with this tranny, according to my friend. That's what I was referring to, please excuse my error.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    The Toyota top limousine is the Century with a V12 engine, a distinct traditional design and a rather staid car. I would guess that just as the Celsior (equivalent to LS) disappears from the Toyota stable, to become the new LS in the Lexus stable, the top of the line Century will also disappear from the Toyota stable, to become the Lexus LSS. Given my experience with my 12 day old RX400H I will purchase only hybrid cars in the future. I am hoping that the LS600H is, and I believe it will be, the production version of the LF-S shown Los Angeles earlier this year.
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