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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • dc661dc661 Posts: 71
    An update from Automotive News regarding 2007 LS:

    "Lexus executives say the fall of 2006 will be like 1989, when Lexus and the LS were launched in the US. They are confident that the redesigned 2007 LS 460 flagship will once again take the luxury segment by storm."

    They also confirm:
    7 speed transmission
    AWD will be an option
    Hybrid will arrive in 2008 model year (power of 6-liter engine with V6 economy)
    Long wheel base version

    Can't wait for the fall of '06!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think Lexus will wait a bit to see if there's actually a market for the R-class and the upcoming BMW competitor before jumping in themselves. The R-class is a huge and hugely expensive vehicle that thusfar seems to have gotten largely mediocre reviews. The Pacifica seems to be doing alright for itself now, but I'm just not sure that people are going to pay $60K+ for a luxury version. Frankly I'm a little surprised that BMW rushed so quickly to come up with a competing model. I guess they feel that they must compete in every segment that M-B has a model now, but a 200"+ long, tall, ungainly vehicle that is essentially a minivan seems very un-BMW.
  • dc661dc661 Posts: 71
    Lexus has built the VX concept vehicle based on the GS platform. It's not as big as the R-class but it will have 3 rows. Look for it in early 2007.image

    As for a 7 passenger vehicle with better mileage than the GX or LX, I don't think that will happen until the hybrids start arriving.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think the VX is related to the Toyota FT-SX concept that will become the next Highlander.

    image
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    From everything we read, it appears that the 2007 LS460 will be a technological marvel. In fact, I have been thinking that I will be trading in my 2004 LS430 for this new awesome machine for a while now. However, there is one thing that is really haunting me these days. I am of the opinion that with gas prices continuing to sky-rocket, folks will be increasingly more concerned about great gas mileage. Let's say that a year from now, gasoline prices are $3.50-4.00 per gallon. If that's the case, I do not think that it would be a smart move by Lexus to come out with a non-hybrid LS460. I can't imagine the LS460 would get much more than 25mpg on the highway. I don't think it would sell very well. Why not wait, and come out with a super hybrid sedan that combines luxury, technology, and great gas mileage. Maybe it would be better if Lexus spends more time and comes out with an even more efficient hybrid than that projected from the LS500. I don't see the need for a "gazillion" horsepower vehicle. After a certain point, it is overkill. Why not concentrate more at getting great gas mileage instead of horsepower. Is it possible to build a hybrid luxury sedan that gets let's say 40mpg in the city and 35 on the highway? Am I dreaming here? As you can tell I am very concerned about the fuel cost (even though I can personally afford it). I am afraid that the population as a whole will be very reluctant to spend mucho bucks from this point on unless it will deliver great gas mileage.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    When you can spend $65-70K + on a car or $1k per month on a lease, an extra buck or two a year on gas isn't going to slow you down. It's irritating but hardly road stopping. Besides, in Europe gas prices have been $4-6 a gallon for as long as most people can remember.

    The worst move Lexus could ever make is delaying the LS or offering it only as a hybrid.

    Again - you need to put your energy fears into perspective. If you are driving 15,000 miles a year and getting 20mpg then your energy consumption is 700 gallons. At 4$ a gallon that is only a thousand dollars different than at $2.50. Lexus, nor MB or anyone else will not change their strategic plans on cars at $70K - 100K+ for a thousand dollars. Besides it's an industry wide issue as that problem exists in every car. On top of all that I still think oil prices are in an inflationary bubble that will eventually settle back to barrel prices in the low 50's. If you drive more than 15k miles a year the depreciation on a lux car will choke you a lot more than fuel prices will.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    To a certain degree Lexus has to offer certain vehicles because the competition has them. MB, BMW, Audi, and Jaguar all have a very competitive full size luxury car with a V8 and 300hp+. That means Lexus has to have one, or they cant compete. I also dont see gas skyrocketing to $4 a gallon in just a year unless there is some kind of serious problem in the middle east. Hybrids are nice, but they are not miracle workers. Can a 4,000lb+ full size, RWD sedan get 40mpg with today's hybrid technology? Not a chance. I think you'd be lucky to get an extra 10mpg over the standard V8's city mileage, and almost zero benefit on the highway.

    I think Hybrid technology has the potential to be a great solution, at least for awhile, just as clean diesel does. In 2005 though, hybrids make up a miniscule portion of new vehicle sales, and for the moment at least, only the Prius and the SUVs are actually hot sellers. Hybrid Civics and Accords are backing up on dealer lots. Nobody has proved yet that the general public is actually interested in a hybrid car that looks just like the regular car its based on. We'll have to wait and see if the hybrid Camry, Altima, and Lexus GS450h work or not, but the hybrid Accord is basically a flop.

    Gas also has to be quite a bit more than $4 before you can actually see a ROI in any reasonable amount of time, and then of course, there's the question of what to do with the battery. On one hand you've got lower emissions thanks to partial electric power, but on the other hand you've got this box of toxic waste to deal with. In the short term hybrids are still just "feel good" purchases, with no real economic benefit whatsoever.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    Thank you for your perspective ljflx. I hope you are right and that there will still be a big market for luxury non-hybrids. I am so much concerned about the world economic situation due to sky-rocketing energy costs. Because of this, you could not even get me to even think about investing in the stock market. Something is going to have to give soon and I am afraid it will get quite ugly. I hope I am wrong in my gloomy outlook.
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    I would have to agree that Hybrids are not luxury workers. Also, as an example of people willing to spend extra money for gas for performance, let us look at the $.25 cent difference per gallon between Premium and regular gas. For most cars, (such as many lexus cars, I am not sure about the LS), regular gas will do just fine, though it may reduce your performance a smidgen. Yet I, and tons of other people, continue to pay the higher prices for the upgraded fuel. Doesn't sound to me that we are too concerned with the prices of fuel.

    On another note, people who pay this much for a car would have the same millage, if not worse millage, from a competitors car, so Lexus doesn't have to worry there.

    In an unrelated comment, thats great news about the AWD being confirmed by Auto News.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    An oil shortage would concern me. Inflationary oil prices with no shortage is a bubble from my perspective. It's driven by an overly aggressive view of China's energy needs and the terrorism risk factor. If either one of those eases you have a $10per barrel easement in prices. If both do you'd have oil priced at $20 a barrel less. But instead of the latter you'll more likely have a moderate easement in both dropping prices about $10-12 a barrel. As an investor I'm a buyer of stocks and not oil right now. One market is still undervalued and the other is overvalued based on too many fears. The oil market looks a little too much like the late 90's stock market to me right now.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    Again, I sure hope you are right on the "money" on this one ljflx.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "The oil market looks a little too much like the late 90's stock market to me right now"

    Add in real estate as well...

    But on the oil/gas issue, Len I must disagree with your rosy scenarios. The probability that we'll see $2 a gallon is much much lower than that we'll see $4/gallon. This is the reality. Demand is simply going to go up, and as long there remains conflict in the middle east, a barrel of oil will remain high, maybe even go up beyond the $62-ish it is currently selling for. China is growing, demand here in the US has not waned, rather is going up.... more and more cars are being sold, many more people can afford 2, 3, 4 vehicles in their homes. Here in Cali, we have people with 4+ garages... The population is growing, the labor force is growing, and there is not enough incentives for fuel alternatives in the recently signed energy bill. So... our dependence on oil will continue in the foreseeable future, IMO.

    The LS600H is the MY2008 release. This car should do the mid-30s in mpg. That would be plenty for a car churning out 375-ish HP and weighing over 5000Ib. That will be a solid vehicle, and should do well in the market... combining power, speed, fuel efficiency and luxury in one neat package.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    We very much appreciate you providing some early information on the new LS. For those people in the market for such a car, it helps to know at least some details in advance. Some people may want to buy a car now, but can be persuaded to wait if they have a sense of what may be coming. We know that Lexus/Toyota normally does not provide too much early information, but since your competitors are coming out with some interesting new cars before the new LS, giving us an early look may keep some people waiting! Thanks!
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    If the LS600h gets 35mpg, I would definitely be inclined to wait until that is available instead of purchasing the LS460 next year. I realize that it will cost considerably more, but it will probably be worth it.
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    I agree about gas, people are fed up with it. I know I might be swayed by 1mpg next time. That's why hybrids are looking good, not to try and save a few bucks but to try and do our bit for oil imports, it all counts, if I have a little better fuel economy I can tell my friends about it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm not so sure about that. I think your probably going to be looking at a $15K premium for the LS600 over the 460, maybe more. 35\2x vs. 22\2x just wont make up for that kind of cash. If you want the extra power, sure, thats the same reason to buy the RX400 over the 330. But if you're just looking for fuel savings, its not going to be worth it.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,256
    For me, the influencing factors would be the combination of a technological marvel, luxury, performance, environmental enhancements, and fuel economy (not necessarily in that order). My wife and I purchased the RX400h (for her) back in early May and we love it.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    LG: Hybrids is not only about MPG.... Think about the overall impact on energy demand. Of course, we are a long ways off from energy independence, but here in So Cal, there is an organization promising energy independence by 2025. Now, if that were a target embarked upon by our government, won't that be a neat idea ? If buying hybrids or diesel lowers our dependence on foreign oil, would that not cut back price of oil and consequently gas prices at the pump ???
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I understand that. If the 17 million new vehicles purchased in the US were suddenly all hybrids, the reduction of energy use.. at least the energy required to actually drive the vehicles, would be tremendous. However, just as with hydrogen, there's a dark side thats not really mentioned. 17 million hybrids means 17 million batteries, and a huge amount of energy required to create them, most likely from electricity produced by burning fossil fuels. The hybrids would be cleaner, but then you've got 17 million self-contained toxic waste dumps to deal with. How long will they actually last, and where do they go when they're all dead? The warranty might be for 100K miles, but are they still operating at 100% ability after that long, or like most batteries, do their storage abilities deteriorate with time? What is the effect going to be on resale values when a new battery costs $6,000+?

    Additionally there are other issues, such as the fact that rescue crews risk electric shock or acid burns if they cut into a hybrid car to try and pull someone out. A lot of these things have to be dealt with if hybrid cars are going to become more than 1% of the total vehicle market.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Ah I see. I figured Lexus would eventually start doing that, as its definitely a lot more cost effective than having to offer two different head units. I guess that means that the '04-'10 RX330 will probably be the last Lexus that is available screenless."

    Actually, the 2006 IS are screenless, unless you opt for the Navi.

    ---------------------

    Oh yeah, an $80,000 LS hybrid that gets 30 mpg might sound nice to your buddies at the country club, but spare me if you're going to say you got it to "help the environment" and "reduce our dependence" on foreign oil.

    If you really want reduce our dependence on oil, there are cars that get better gas mileage and don't take nearly as much energy to manufacture.
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