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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    If you find a good looking model who is also a "car guy", it kind of doesn't work for me anyway.... They need to stay to the script, IMO.
  • How about Danica?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Good point, Mike. Good point. I still get the feeling though, at those auto shows, whether the spokesperson is male or female, that they don't know beans beyond the script. I'm more forgiving of a female however, I guess because I've never had a really good discussion about a camshaft with a woman. My favorites however, are the attractive Asian models, who just stand around the car, and don't speak at all. Ford should get some of those. Couldn't hurt. Especially aroung a 500. Maybe someone would look at the car then.
  • The only reason why we know so much about these cars is because we make it our hobby to find everything out about the cars until they come out because we are "car guys". She was just hired from some agency to look pretty and then was briefed with the most "FAQ".

    My idea is that the models shouldn't say a thing as well. If you want your questions to be answered by her, she should put her index finger over her lips, wink, and pass you a brochure.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A treat for you Lexus guys. Some of my pics from Detroit of the LS460:

    image

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    M
  • Good lookin' out, but you are way off on the LS460L being "out of proportion" in LWB form.

    I just recorded NBC's 2HR Auto Show Special, and they were all over that car, and the view (my first non-stilled) fairly reeks of elegance and proportion. From the profile, I cannot tell if it's LWB or not until they spin it around back! Good job, Lexus!!! ;)

    Thanks for the slick rear end, with the concept's exhaust! I wish the Germans could do that! Or maybe I don't? :blush:

    NVBanker

    I think Ford needs more than an Asian standing near their cars. A lot more.

    Are you sayin' Ford can't even run an car show display without screwing it up?

    I hear ya! LOL!!! :P

    DrFill
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    but you are way off on the LS460L being "out of proportion" in LWB form.

    Well I guess you had to be there. To my eye the LS460 looks better balanced than the LS460L.

    M
  • When the official LS600hL is released. We'll see on 11th Avenue, my friend.

    But I haven't seen a line out of place yet. I don't expect to see one either.

    DrFill
  • Here is the Lexus LS model type line up for 2007:-

    Base Model - LS460 Normal Wheel Base - Cost $65K approx.

    LWB Nodel - LS460 Long Wheel Base - Cost $71K approx.

    LWB Hybrid - LS600h - Possibly AWD - COST $85k.
  • Lexus is currently selling the LS, GS and IS in Japan. The
    number of Lexi sold to-date in Japan since August 2005 is
    four times more than they estimated.

    The LS430 is out selling BMW 7 Series two to one.
  • The Lexus LS430 is being dropped once the LS460 comes out.

    So I would hang on to my LS430 only until I could get a
    LS460 - which is a much better built vehicle - can you imagine that!!! I would place my order now because there is going to be a waiting list.
  • There is no such thing as a "Lexus Bug" - these species have been eliminated at the design stage.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    "So I would hang on to my LS430 only until I could get a
    LS460 - which is a much better built vehicle"

    Not sure what you are saying here. Are you implying the LS460 will be much better built than the LS430 - a car that is already built to the highest standars around. I'd say Lexus will continue to improve their production techniques but to say "much better built" is a dramatiic overstatement.

    As for wait lists - I think they will gear up on plenty of unit sales, so I think if there is a shortage it will work its way out by December on SWB cars. I'd expect a wait list and maybe a serious one for the 600H though. I think the initial production on the LWB car will be short of demand - just like the 2001 ultra was but all will be fine by early 2007. Hope so because i'm a late March 2007 lease renewal and LWB is where I'm going.

    Prices - I'd guess a $74-84K range on the LWB, a $65-71K range on the SWB and $92-105K on the LS600H. I also wouldn't rule out the LS600H offered solely as a fully optioned $99K car from the factory with only dealer added options as extras. I'm expecting AWD to be offered on the LWB car as an option and for it to be standard on the LS600H.
  • If the 600 goes for more than $90k, loaded! A loaded LWB won't go for more than the S550, at $86k. I'd expect a $5k premium over a loaded LWB, no more. Lexus is still all about value.

    Check out my new Forum, Rank the Big 4: Ford, GM, Toyota, Chrysler, in News & Views.

    DrFill
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,273
    ljflx,

    Your knowledge and insight never ceases to amaze me. You are also a voice of reason around here. I am going to wait for the LS600h and trade in my 2004 LS430 at that time. It will be tough to wait but driving the present LS is still very much a joy. It will be very interesting to see new information on the 600h in the next several months.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    Let's go back to this spec sheet and see if we can build the pricing. Let's get some thoughts from everyone on this.

    http://www.lexus.com/2007ls_preview/specifications.html

    Here's my guess:

    Base car $60K (premium package is finally std.)
    ML/Nav 5K
    Hard drive .7K (this may also be wrapped into the ML)
    Lux pckge 3K (one touch trunk, 4zone AC and CC seats)
    Pre-safe 2.5K

    Total range - 60-71K (good luck finding the $60K car though)

    LWB car $69K
    ML/hard drive 3K
    Premium seat
    pck + Ent 5K (will include 4 zone AC)
    massager 2K (includes foot rest)
    pre-safe 2.5k
    AWD 2K

    Total range 69-84K (I'd say most will ship with first 3 items for the dealer lots)

    LS600H 95K
    pre-safe 3K
    AWD 2K

    Total range 95-100K but I would expect it's possible that this will simply have it all for $98K or 98K + AWD as a separate option. You don't need AWD in half the country (this is Audi's big mistake). I'd also expect this car to offer things (or perhaps have them as standard equip which would alter the base price) that are unavailable in the other trims and I don't see a 520-550HP car retailing for just $5K more than a loaded LWB car. This car is set to compete with the S600 not the S550.

    These are really not bad prices - It's just that you can write off any chance to get discounts in year one and prices may go over MSRP in hot areas and I'm afraid my area is one of them.

    What does everyone think and what are the thoughts of others?

    Cyclone4 - thanks for the compliment and start saving your money. That LS600H is going to be a mind boggling car and a very hot one at that.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,273
    Hopefully, my 2004 LS430 will be worth about 40K+ at that time. Thus, I will need to dish out another 60K.

    Or, I may work out a one payment lease like we did with the RX400h (my wife's) last year. I put up 25K. After 3 years, we have a choice of keeping it (for another 28K I believe) or getting a new vehicle with probably better hybrid technology at that time. This would be in the spring of 2008.
  • It's somewhat vague if rear reclining seats are optional or not.

    This is from the LS460 specs on lexus.com

    For rear passengers of the 460L, available amenities include a center console table, climate-comfort seats and a rear-seat massager (right rear seat only).
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I appreciate the above pics. At least Merc will no longer accuse Lexus of copying the Mercedes - clearly, this was Bangle inspired. I like it, but I wish Lexus hadn't made it such a "BMW light" design. It's really obvious who they're chasing now. Oh, I'll buy one someday, very likely, it's very nice. Wonder how Stuttgart (sp) feels now? The only thing worse than being imitated - is when you no longer are...
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    There was an article all about the new LS in the Wall Street Journal dated 1/9. A quote from the article: "The new LS also will be more expensive than Toyota Motor Corp.'s past Lexus vehicles, surpassing the $70,000 mark, as the company makes a bid to up the ante on luxury and the sticker price that goes along with it...The company will hit the $100,000 price tag for the first time with a longer, hybrid version of the LS. That vehicle will compete head on with Mercedes' S600, which is only available in the long wheelbase, and BMW's 760Li, neither of which are hybrids."
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    LS460 SWB range = $60-71K; I agree totally !
    LS460 LWB range = $69-$84K; I'd say $70-82K tops (gotta come in under the S550 base)
    LS600H LWB only = >$90K+. I'd wager mid-$90K-ish.. IMO, it will not hit the $100K range LOADED. The 6-figure range is exclusive to the LF-A roadster, at >200mph, V10, 500+HP, going head-on against the SL55 and its siblings....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    OAC - I think the 600H will have an available option package that takes it to the low 100's. There's an inherent automatic prestige factor that comes with crossing that plateau and I think Lexus is ready for it. We'll see. I can see the LWB stopping at 82K but I can also see a fully loaded one with pre-safe reaching 84-85K. In all honesty I think final pricing will be determined by the dollar/Yen exchange rate forecasts. Everything I know about business tells me they will underestimate the demand for LWB cars and the hybrid even though the RX hybrid is such a big success.
  • No be careful! :surprise:

    The RX400h is successful, but let's not make it into a legend just yet.

    It sells around 22-2400 a month, which for $50k is pretty good, but with a nice sized customer base, and no competition, it isn't platinum.

    Now I forget the actual price of the thing. I think it is under $50k, than with options goes to around $54k.

    Are you guys sayin the LWB option will cost $10k?

    I think that's a bit much, $6-7k is more like it, provided you also get a couple of extra features thown in (Rear Auto Climate, rear heated seats, power sunshade, etc.)

    I see $90k, $95k w/options for the 600. This would kill the S600, and the S550 would be fighting uphill for years! :shades:

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    It's probably a volume issue. Do they want high volume and an S550 killer here or low volume, high price, high prestige. It can go either way. If priced where you think this will bring down MB prices in a hurry.
  • I'm not thinking of volume so much as replacing Mercedes S-Class as THE luxury car icon in this country.

    Lexus also needs to leave room above the LS to fit a LF-A, when produced.

    I think $100k affects sales when crossed, and Lexus will be mindful of that.

    We still seems to be in a state of confusion on the base price of the LS460. Will it go under $60k? Move to $65k?

    Toyota has brought out much larger engines in other classes, without making the car several thousand more expensive, so they have the ability to curb price increases.

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    It makes no sense - IMO - to price the LS600H under $85K or even $90K if they are not going for volume. If a rarer car is the case prestige becomes the factor and the car has to get near or over $100K. In all the pricing strategies I've been involved in - and they have been many - you can't have it both ways. That's a lose-lose situation for the Mfr.

    As for the LWB car I see it meaningfully above a loaded SWB car for several reasons. Naturally the longer wheel base itself plus the fact that it will have things available that won't be available on the SWB car if you go back to the spec sheet. It also doesn't seem that they are going to have an ultra version of the SWB car anymore.
  • What is considered volume? Lexus execs have been trumpeting their "value" stance recently, even when explaining their sales records at the end of the year.

    I've seen the RX400h priced $3-5k above the RX, loaded, so I think it may go to $7-8k in the LS.

    Lexus is still trying to sell the Hybrid technology, and the RX400h has been good, but not platinum.

    They've been pretty clear on the fact that volume and hybrids go together, in the business plan.

    The GS450h is only $65k, and it hasn't lit up the press, so jumping over $100k maybe stepping over the line.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The GS450h is only $65k, and it hasn't lit up the press

    DrFill - Do you think the reason for that might have more to do with the vehicle itself and not the "hybrid factor"? The reason I ask is that I am of the opinion that perhaps the "hybrid factor" in and of itself is not enough to sell any vehicle that Toyota/Lexus equips with it. It needs to be married to the "right" vehicle. Maybe the GS is just not the right vehicle for this marriage.

    But, I would venture to say that the LS IS the right vehicle for such a combination. The LS with the long wheelbase and hybrid together will be a TOTAL winner. It is the first and only Lexus sedan that I would ever consider buying and I am quite convinced that I would be in the company of many others who feel that way.
    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,677
    DrFil - What are you measuring value against? At $100K the LS hybrid with 520HP is one hell of a value proposition vs the big V10-12 Germans. If you are measuring it against the S550 forget it. The car is not being built for that - it's being built to steal the thunder from the high HP German cars that range from $115-132K, to raise the bar on Lexus prestige and prices and to steal as many German car buyers as there are from those cars and fully loaded $100-105K S550's. Price it too low and it misses it's whole WOW factor. I think you are comparing this car in the market to the wrong car and I think you are missing how Lexus intends to do business in the future. The US is won, the world is the goal now and Asia is step one.
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