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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions



  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    At $100K the LS hybrid with 520HP is one hell of a value proposition vs the big V10-12 Germans.

    ljflx - Mercedes has the AMG variant, as you are well aware, and it is well known to represent much more than mere HP. There are significant "appearance" transformations as well as major engineering/performance enhancements. Boosting the LS to 520 HP can not be enough by itself. What are the other engineering enhancements to handle that power? And what about significant appearance enhancements as well? What will all these be?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Tagman - you can get to $100K on an S550 without the AMG variant though. The S65 is what -$160K? And the S55 - is it $110-115K? This car is just going after the non-Amg's. It's a stock car. But supposedly there are Lexus tuned variants that are coming but I'd expect them to be in 2008. Agree about the GS hybrid - it's not the tour de force car. Only the LS can do that job. The GS hybrid is just a placeholder until the LS600 comes out. But I expect Lexus is going to have a tuned GS in the near future and they'll get rid of the VDIM lock-up on the stock car and underneath that locking control is one hell of a car waiting to get free.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks, but still, how will they handle 520 HP? Seems like it might be too much for the standard engineered suspension. Then there's the question about too much stability control or performance limiters. What's your take on this? After all, 520 HP is a bunch of ponies.
  • As all LS' are over-engineered anyway, and a Euro-suspension of some kind will be offered, they can make it work.

    Maybe I don't know, ljflx, how Lexus is going to do business, or their 5-year plan, but their recent hybrid introductions and press quotes don't lead me to believe that an LS over $100k is in the immediate future.

    The modest premiums of the GS and RX hybrids back me up. Maybe things will be different with the LS, but $90k-95k is a very nice, and attractive room, just below the penthouse, of the premium luxury sedan class, and where I would park the Hybrid.

    Maybe, once it blows up like we think, they will move it up, like they did with the original LS.

    Toyota has been very aggressive with power, but not with price. I don't see a $30k jump in price this year.

    They will get there, soon enough. Don't give them any of the wrong ideas! :mad:

  • yak54yak54 Posts: 72
    The new LS will have a multi-link suspension front and back. Do you think this will give it the road handling ability of a BMW 750I?
  • nunnznunnz Posts: 3
    What are your thoughts on the 2007 Lexus LS460S vs the new 2007 Mercedes S450. Both verhicles are priced around $80k
  • The LS460 is a competitor for the S550, not anything less. S450 is no competition, as many mags have astutely pointed out in this generation.

  • nunnznunnz Posts: 3
    Assuming you only wanted to spend $80k and if you got the Lexus you wanted to would absolutely pick the LS over the Mercedes S450? Why is that?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    DrFill - The LS460 will end up being compared to the S450, as well as the S550, so get ready for it. It is a natural, and IMO, there is enough justification to do so. I suspect that there will be mags that will make such a comparison, and some will actually prefer the MB S550, and maybe even the S450. No doubt the Lexus will score high marks, but it would be foolish to completely ignore the S450 as a potential competitor.
    Unfortunately most of the world will not consult with you first. ;)
    So . . . Let's see where it all goes.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    barrys – Your concern about the suggestion that Lexus should actually RAISE its prices is reasonable and logical, IMO. I agree with you and DrFill that the Lexus price structure does not need encouragement to rise too quickly, for its own sake, but I do believe that the more extreme opinions expressed here will not influence Lexus's strategic marketing.

    Remember, Toyota/Lexus is among the best in the world at this. Many of the Lexus fans on this forum have a major affection for the automaker, which is clear from some of the posts. This is quite natural for there to be more extreme views like this. The views expressed by many of the German car fans are just as powerful, and those views sometimes in a similar fashion are supportive of the price and/or value of the German cars.

    Let me clarify that I believe that the high-end German car prices are often too lofty and have posted this opinion in the past. I have also posted that the Lexus price strategy of keeping the prices lower than the competition has been essential to their success, and is, in fact, an integral part of their marketing formula.

    I have tremendous respect for companies with brilliant strategies, and I include Toyota/Lexus (Wal-Mart is another) among my most respected. They are not perfect, of course. And my respect for them should not be construed as an endorsement or to infer that I am biased in favor of their products . . . just a respect for their marketing brilliance.

    The price advantage is essential to perceived value. Consider DrFill's opinion that the S450 cannot compare to the LS460. Well . . . buyers and critics alike WILL make the comparisons, and as they do so, many of them will draw the conclusion that DrFill draws, partly due to the price difference as it relates to how much car the buyer perceives to obtain for the $$$. Lexus will continue to stand out as a good value, because it has an historic reputation and foundation based upon reliable value, with good momentum in its wake, and it will be deliberately priced to further the cause. However, there are other factors that affect the sale of an automobile, and many people will choose other marques instead of the Lexus, of course. There are no actual "right or wrong" choices when purchasing an automobile . . . only a spectrum of preferences, criteria, and/or "need-fulfillment" . . . which buyers will perceive as "right" for themselves and/or others.

    Will Lexus boost prices? Beyond factors such as monetary exchange rates and/or political global trade pressures, there have been views expressed that they will and that they should deliberately do so . . . and those suggestions of deliberate price increases and a shrinking price gap/advantage have raised your concern. However, aside from minor fluctuations and tweaking, I think it is clearly more likely that Lexus will stay on their successful path and maintain the integration of perceived price advantage as a key factor in their brilliant and successful marketing strategy. In essence, it is a key component to what defines Lexus, and Toyota/Lexus is not about to tamper with its core perceptual definition.

  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    How muc HP does the MB S450 have?
  • The MB S450 has about 335 HP
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    Ok, pretty good size difference in HP. LS460 has 380hp vs. MB 450 has 335hp, I don't see it as a direct competitor. Seems the MB 550 with 382 HP would be the direct competition for LS 460.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Interesting to see the process of picking a single specification such as horsepower and then determining that there is nothing else to compare between vehicles. There are dozens of factors to consider. As a great example, this Edmunds site just recently compared a Lexus IS 350 to the BMW 330i. The Lexus was the clear power/acceleration winner, but in the end . . . after considering ALL the things that truly matter . . . the review made it very clear that the BMW was the top dog. So, as you can see, HP is only one single factor when making a fair and complete comparison.
  • For actually reading and understanding my posts, as this is a forgotten art at times. ;)

    I can read Merc's mind now, that the cache, the perceived superiority of Mercedes, and it's impressive 100+ year heritage, will lend credibility and value to the S450, and maybe enough to warrant a higher price and lower power. This could very well be true.

    Regarding the IS, having just left the Houston car show myself, the rear seat of the IS is ABYSMAL! The front only has average space for the class, certainly less than the Zephyr or other domestics, so you can't really donate anything, front to rear. That hurts it's competitive value.

    If the IS had a stick, though, it would clean up on all these comparisons. An auto just emphasizes it's technical side, and cripples it's ability to communicative with the driver. As good as the IS is, it will NEVER beat a BMW MT car. Not possible.

    With the new LS style and power, and the quality and luxury that is by now a given, Mercedes maybe powerless to stop it's assention at this point. But the S-Class will always be a standard-bearer.

    But "New Money" loves Lexus. There are 50 new Millionaires in America every day!

  • I am really interested in the features of the LS 460L because the MB S550 has things like the night view assist and the distronic that is helpful in stop and go traffic. Does anyone know if the Lexus will ahve all of that. And about the power rear door closures, does it mean like the door will automatically close at the touch of a button like the power doors on the minivans excluding the sliding doors that are on the vans.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks for the Kudos and compliments. I enjoy your posts.

    Lexus has achieved "social acceptance" and represents "success" at the entry tier (sort of a "you have arrived!" greeting to the new millionaires you mentioned), without a doubt.

    The Edmunds review of the new S-Class is a must-read.

    I can not agree with you, however, that Mercedes may be powerless to stop the Lexus assention. I think it is more likely that Lexus will be in the same overall position (although slightly elevated this time around) it has historically been in . . . a great alternative that has great value written all over it . . . but not necessarily the top dog . . . at least not yet.
  • The LS600hL will show how far Lexus can go. I expect it to have every ounce of power and luxury a S600 will, but should cost less and be much more efficient.

    Only one thing can stop Lexus at this point, avirice.

    The S-Class can't push the LS around anymore. Mercedes salesmen were not please in Detroit!

    Lexus LS will be THE CAR in 3 years. THE car you want in this class.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Speaking for myself, the ONLY LS I would consider to purchase would be the LS600hL. I love and respect MANY of these high end vehicles, but my next purchase will REQUIRE fuel efficiency as a general feature of the vehicle, regardless of its price. I don't wish to get political or anything, but I've been around the block enough to come to the point where I am totally done with gas hogs. DONE.

    As far as the other features go, I also prefer the long wheelbase, and that further points to the LS600hL as the "winner" in the Lexus LS lineup, IMO.

    I give tons of credit to Mercedes for the S-Class achievement. It's simply gorgeous. The new LS is an improvement, but the styling is . . .well . . . we'll just have to see how these vehicles all stack up in the critic's comparisons . . . and yours, too, of course. ;)
  • The humps aren't that bad, but I hate the taillights, and the general slope of the rear deck.

    The LS profile is very nice, the best view. The detailing in the C-Pillar is without peer. The rear shares much with the IS. It cast a confident stance, if nothing else.

    I've only seen the SWB version. Live. I have the LWB on DVD/Tivo.

    My point is, people have NEVER bought the LS for style, now it can turn some heads, especially with the Germans taking a step back.

    The Last 740 was sweeter than anything out today, or tomorrow for that matter! Instant classic! :shades:

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