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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

18990929495104

Comments

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks for the clarification.... I had always associated sturdiness = heavy, but I can understand what you mean here.

    I've had the same need for clarification at times with "heavy", because sometimes it can mean substantial or sturdy, as you put it, but other times it can mean "overweight" to me.

    For the sake of an example, every time I ever test drove the Nissan Z, since the time it became the ZX to the present day car, I've always thought that the car feels "heavy", but I've meant it to mean that the car feels a bit lumbering and overweight to me.

    Anyway, not sure that adds too much more, but thought I'd toss it out there. :)

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    LS has it's own platform. Don't know Toyota's specific Euro plans for the LS. I just remember reading that they were developing a number of diesels for future European sales across the board.

    I'd imagine the L650 would have one price and seating could be configured anyway you want. There will still be people who may want such a car to accomodate 3 rear occupants.

    Tag - 2009 supposedly. Remember the LS600HL is technically a 2008 car.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    Merc

    Just cauught up. As usual - great write-up and very objective as have been all your reviews of events like this. Too bad they didn't have a sport suspension car for you to test.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Tag - 2009 supposedly. Remember the LS600HL is technically a 2008 car.

    Porsche Panamera could also launch in '09. I wonder what MB has up its sleeve.

    TagMan
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    there used to be an old saying, back in the day: "if it won't go, gear it", or something like that. In today's landscape with computer assisted design and control for everything, it should be easily possible for any serious manufacturer to closely examine the engine power/torque curves, final drive ratio and transmission gear ratios and optimize all of them to provide the best possible combination of acceleration and economy (or skew it one way or the other depending upon the mission of the car). I tend to think that Lexus was more intent on "one-uping" Mercedes than delivering any serious performance/economy advantage; however, I am happy to wait to see how the 460/eight-speed combo works in practice.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    Change the Maybach to a model line rather tha a different named brand is what I'd do. They already have cars in the price range of where Lexus is going so they can only update.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just cauught up. As usual - great write-up and very objective as have been all your reviews of events like this. Too bad they didn't have a sport suspension car for you to test.

    I'm glad you liked the review, but the LS460L I drove did have the sportier air suspension setup. I specifically asked the reps about this and I drove the car twice to make sure. This is why I didn't stand in line to drive the SWB LS460 because it didn't have the air suspension setup.

    M
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    Air suspension in sport mode or the real sport suspension? The latter will be an option on the LWB and will have better cornering than the former based on my understanding.
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    The "Touring Package" is the true Sport Susp. setup, with 19" wheels. It also has the electrified brakes and steering, so you may get six of one, half-dozen of the other....

    The Air Suspension may be the least sporty set-up available!

    From the pics provided, those look like the 18" luxury wheels.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I tend to think that Lexus was more intent on "one-uping" Mercedes than delivering any serious performance/economy advantage;

    Yes . . . but Yes again.

    Lexus was indeed, by admission, intent on one-upping the Mercedes 7-speed, but beyond that magic number 8, was the intention of achieving a competitive 0-60 time, and a superior fuel economy rating.

    BTW, I agree with your basic premise of computer intervention regarding engine and tranny data.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Good point... cos like DrFill pointed out, the real sport suspension has the upgraded wheels (19"), bigger drilled/slotted brakes, and upgraded A/S. Looking at the pics from Merc1's drive event, none of the LS seemed to have this setup, so no real sport suspension in the pack. Could be wrong tho'...
  • It is defiantly an exciting car. Across the entire scope of manufacturers it is by all accounts, a very worthy HELM. Can't wait to drive it at the "taste"
    I do wish the styling separated itself some from the "family" but none the less, I can't wait to drive it and will post accordingly.
    FWIW, I agree with Merc on the heaviness of some cars not neccisarily being "unsprung weight" but the steering feel, switch gear, and the feeling of pulling up pavement which is how I would describe the Audi's I've driven
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    German cars have always traditionally been heavier at the controls, nothing to do with actual weight of the vehicle.

    Indeed. The "heaviness" of the controls has everything to do with the amount of power assist that is put into the steering. The German cars have less power steering.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Not sure I totally agree with that, dm. Power assist is not the component that makes a car feel "heavy" or "substantial" to me. For example, a Cadillac CTS has very low power assist on the steering, but doesn't feel heavy or substantial to me. Same with a BMW 330 CSI. An S-Class has considerable power assist in the steering, just right IMO, but despite that, the car feels as steady as the North Star. I don't know exactly what it is that makes up this dynamic, and it could be a lot of things.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    From what they said the LS460L there that day had the "stiffest" suspension setup. Whatever that means. Then another rep stated that it was a "sport" air suspension setup that is only available on the L version. You never can tell with these ride and drive events because they hustle you from one car to the next.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    From the pics provided, those look like the 18" luxury wheels.

    So which wheels are these?

    image

    image

    Are these the sport package?

    M
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    The sport touring package is not air suspension. We'll have to wait to the model options are available for clearer details but that suspension is supposed to be the sportiest ride. That suspension is an updated and sportier version than the euro suspension that existed (though seemed impossible to get in recent years) in the LS430. One would think that if they went thru the pains of building one for this car that it would be more readily available. I guess you can also argue that should have been the case for the LS430. In 2001 - 2003 that suspension was avaialable and sold right out. After the 2004 refresh it seemed to be unheard of although it was listed as an option on the website.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I don't know which wheels those are but as a commentary I have never found Lexus wheel designs to be very attractive. I think BMW wheels are, on average, better looking than Lexus or MB.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    As well - their may well be an option on the air suspension cars for 19" wheels.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    So which wheels are these?

    My bad... those are the 19" rims. The 18" ones have like 10 spokes or something. The front brakes also looked huge, so I'd suspect the car had the sport package (Touring Package).

    18" wheel package:
    image

    19" wheel package:
    image
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Here's yet another review of the LS460 and LS460L:

    link title

    Clearly this reviewer prefers the long wheelbase version.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    OAC - again I wouldn't assume it's the sport touring version just because it had 19" wheels. Those can just as easily be an available option on the air suspension models. My feeling is this was an air susppension set on the sport mode.

    Tag - lends crecedence to my belief that Lexus will underestimate demand for LWB cars in year one. Clearly this car was really set to be a LWB car and as we go thru it's multi-year production run I'll bet that we see fewer and fewer SWB cars made as the years go on. Problem is when I see stuff like this -

    "But the reason that none of this is remarkable for 2007 is because one could essentially say the same for the LS from the prior year. Which leaves one to ask, what is the point of the 2007 LS 460 overhaul?"

    - I know the reviewer has his/her head in the sand and I just dismiss the whole review as worthless. Do these writers really think people are that dumb or do they not realize how dumb they come across? There's no middleground in statements like that - it's either the writer is an idiot or we are. The other problem is the moment the reviewer goes right to converting customers as an issue you also know what's coming next. If it's a Lexus based reviewer the car will set the world afire and win converts galore and if it's the other way around the car is nothing special and no one will convert. It's getting worse and worse with many of these reviewers.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The reviewer's personal bias against the standard wheelbase was evident.

    You and I are already in agreement that Lexus has likely underestimated potential demand for the long wheelbase version, but when I consider that the vehicle price is still so important to the Lexus strategy, at least with regards to any significant volume in sales, it still makes sense that the short wheelbase may be the only open door for many LS buyers . . . and accomplish the sales numbers that Lexus is after.

    TagMan
  • Some interesting discussion about the powertrain, audio system, other aspects of the design and manufacturing process...

    http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/090601.html
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And, it sure pays off, doesn't it?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    So here you have a person that truly researched the car and puts out a fact sheet like that vs the the idiot that gave us nothing technical and just her pre-disposed negative opinion in the article Tagman linked earlier today. I don't really care if the someoone reviews and dislikes the LS460 or any car for that matter, but for crying out loud give us an honest to goodness rationale for it instead of the garbage she wrote.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,278
    I am in total agreement Len. It seems as if that reviewer (TagMan link) in a stupid sort of way, wants people to view her as a big shot car reviewer by writing ignorantly negative junk.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hey, I just posted the link . . . I didn't write the darned thing. ;)

    Seriously though, I try to read ALL the reviews I can, and take the bad with the good. Biased viewpoints as opposed to factual data are quite obvious. Opinions can be interesting and even enlightening at times, as we all know from posting to these forums, but extreme views and biases don't work for me.

    And, the good news is that opinions don't change the facts anyway. They are just an interpretation of them. And sometimes, a twisted one.

    I get a chuckle out of all this to be honest, because no matter what we all say, so much of the truth about all of these cars is fairly obvious anyway, at least that's my ever-so-humble opinion.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,683
    "Hey, I just posted the link . . . I didn't write the darned thing."

    Tag - Given the intelligence shown in so many of your posts, to say nothing of financial acumen or classiness, you wouldn't be able to fall to the level of intelligence that woman displayed even if someone pushed you down a dozen flights of stairs.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
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