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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    It's a lot more than that. The LWB improves the ride, gives a lot of added rear room and just plain looks sleeker and better - at least to me - plus it attacks the competition more. We are only talking 5" here and I would never buy into the thought that longer makes it better. I do know that a longer wheel base rides better though.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I understand what you are saying. I have looked seriously at a Jag XJ8L, or Vanden Plas, because the back seat is so spacious. But the regular XJ8 is a little scripy in the back for legroom, IMO. I think the L in the Jag would make a lot of sense. I'm just saying, that Lexus has provided for a lot of legroom back there already (unless that has changed on the 460), and the LWB wouldn't be necessary for me. Also, I'm sure it would ride better, but how much better can it ride? It's already just about perfect. Handling may be impaired just a bit, but not much.

    For the money, all I'm saying is the SWB would do me fine, I think.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    That's why I think Lexus has made a great marketing move here. You want a simple very luxurious SWB car they've got it for you. You want some added lux on that SWB car they've got it. You want a more simple LWB lux car - they've got that too. You want penultimate luxury in a LWB car in this segment with 380-450HP and excellent mileage plus hybrid alternative - they have got that too - all in the same model line.
  • Leonard, remind me again why we are getting all that excited about the 460. Engine up from 4.3 to 4.6, 8 gears instead of 6, push button start instead of turning a key -- that's about all, isn't it? Of course it's quieter; every year's new model has been quieter than the previous. On the other hand, drag coefficient = 0.26 vs. the 0.25 we got when the LS430 first came out in 2000. So if we don't need the LWB (and I wouldn't mainly because I love the extremely tight turning radius), is it really such a big deal?

    Maybe I'm just getting older . . .

    Renny
  • The reason is that this is an improvement over what is arguably the best vehicle on the market (the current LS).

    For me though, the main reason to get excited is the AWD, which will allow me for the first time to get the LS.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    You state: "You want penultimate luxury in a LWB car in this segment"
    Dictionary definition of "penultimate": next to the last.
    So your statement is hardly complimentary. "Ultimate" might be a word to use but I wouldn't use it because of the abuse of it by BMW.
  • The LS 430 drag coefficient is 0.26 for most vehicles, it's 0.25 when the air suspension is used, IIRC. It's probable the LS 460 is similar, 0.26 standard, 0.25 with at least one of the suspension setups...

    IMO, the reason to be excited about the LS 460 includes its new styling, interior design, features (new high-res large touchscreen, HDD, NavTraffic, ML sound system with iPod connectivity, gracenote, etc.). A lot of it is evolutionary over the previous LS' strengths, including the interior comfort levels, smooth ride, etc. But also the vehicle is supposed to be sportier than the last.

    Although, yes, the LS 460 L is taking the limelight here, but a lot of it IMO is rubbing off on the LS 460 itself. These are amazing, world-class leading cars.

    BTW, considering the LS 460 L commanding upwards of $91,000 when fully loaded, anyone care to revise estimates for how much the LS 600h L will cost?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Why bother ever making a new car or a new style of the car if you look at it that way. You've got 102 more horses and a much sleeker style and a bunch of major updates and new innovations. If it doesn't mean anything to you then you shouldn't have any interest in the car. Until they make a hydrogen powered car or one that flies every car is an just an update of the existing car. Me - I'm excited by it and can't wait till my lease is up. We think very differently it appears.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Next time I'll check the dictionary but I always use penultimate as top or near top and this is the first time I've been told it's wrong.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Next time I'll check the dictionary but I always use penultimate as top or near top and this is the first time I've been told it's wrong.

    OOps..... :blush: So have I, and I'm an English Major....

    However, this is the source of the word, and he's right, it means last.

    penult
    One entry found for penult.


    Main Entry: pe·nult
    Pronunciation: 'pE-"n&lt, pi-'
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin paenultima penult, from feminine of paenultimus almost last, from paene almost + ultimus last -- more at ULTIMATE
    : the next to the last member of a series; especially : the next to the last syllable of a word
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    "BTW, considering the LS 460 L commanding upwards of $91,000 when fully loaded, anyone care to revise estimates for how much the LS 600h L will cost? "

    Good point - but again you need to look at the ranges here. That $91K price is an LS460L with everything included. You probably don't see that car once the HL is here. Cars fully optioned often cross a path where the next level up car starts and in my book the moment you even get near that point you abandon the lower tiered car. If I look at ranges I'd say the LS460L goes from $71-$91K and the LS 600HL ranges from $85-$105K. It's really going to be based on what the option prices are. If the LS600HL is loaded the way the initial specs showed then maybe the range is tighter - say $90-$100K or $95K to $105K. My feeling is that once the LS600HL arrives you'll need to custom order an LS460L to reach that $91K number.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Too funny! I also found out just recently that penultimate is exactly one away from the top. I had always read it as "the very top" - and normally I know just about any word you can throw at me! :blush:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Well, everyone uses it incorrectly, so it's easy to "learn" it that way. In fact, if you tried to use it correctly, you'd be corrected by some know - it - all.....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    But another way of looking at that is furthest and furthest can translate to highest. Everytime I've seen penultimate used it's meant highest or near highest. I come across the word the most in astronomy or science write-ups and it was always being used to describe something to the highest degree.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    But the actual definition is that it is exactly once removed from the highest degree. Check it out.
  • Agreed, as stated officially the LS 460 starts at $71,000 and it is indeed special order to get the Exec Class seating package (and jump up to $91,000 along with the other options). I agree there will be overlap, although I expect the fully-loaded LS 600h L to reach the pinnacle of LS pricing. An LS 600h L 'base' version (loaded still with standard features) will possibly be less than the LS 460 L fully loaded.
  • bugfiatbugfiat Posts: 11
    Penultimate means: last but one or second last. It is often mistakenly used and understood to mean 'absolutely ultimate'.

    Reference: Canadian Oxford Dictionary.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    We've spent enough time on this but last in the description of the meaning of this word doesn't mean last in the sense of say, last place as in bottom of the standings. It means next to last chapter of a book or next to last scene of a Broadway Play. So the meaning really is intended to mean once removed from the furthest point. Hence people think of the word and use it in a way that gives a far away untouchable sense. No question though that this word is misconstrued as many people think of it as the most extreme as opposed to next in line from that level. When I've read it, it has connoted the meaning of most ultimate or most spectacular - and the last time I came across the word was in a story about a possible asteroid collision with earth described as the penultimate disaster. Unless the auhor knew of a disaster still to come after that he misconstrued the meaning of the word.

    BTW - I will never use this word again.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I don't blame you. Not sure I will either.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,292
    Len,

    Getting away from the "penultimate" and talking about the "supreme", are you still in line for the LS600hL or have you had a change of heart and going for the LS460L?

    I am very much looking forward to the LS600hL. The only thing that concerns me a little about the 600 is the trunk size. I have heard some rumors that it will be really tiny, perhaps 8-10 cubic feet due to the size and location of the battery. I cannot believe that Lexus would ever design a car of this type with that small of a trunk. I am thinking that it will be more like 12-15 cubic feet. As long as my wife and I can fit a few pieces of luggage in the trunk for long trips (and I plan on taking some long trips with this incredible vehicle), I am fine with it. Have you heard anything more about it?
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I happen to be the Editor in Chief of several scientific publications
    and accuracy of language is all-important.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    When I go on major trips I use my GX470 so trunk space is a nonissue for me. I'm signed for the 600HL first and a LWB LS460L sport edition second right now. My lease ends in late March and the two biggest concerns I have on the LS600HL are whether it's here (and available) by that time and whether or not it doesn't shock us with a $100K+ entry pricepoint. Had dinner with someone over the weekend who told me that Lexus market research shows that people will pay mighty big bucks for high end Lexus cars. Seeing that $91K on the LS460L is further proof of that. Can a BMW 7 (other than the 12 Cyl) even get to that price?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,292
    We have also been using my wife's RX400h for long trips but I am thinking that the LS600HL will be so fun to drive and so comfortable that it will be pleasure-full to drive on long trips. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about any lease with my LS430. So, I am ready for the LS600HL as soon as it gets here.

    My thinking is that there will indeed be an overlap with pricing between the fully loaded LS460L and the standard version LS600HL. I bet prices range between about 87K (standard version) and 100K+ for the ultimate (or is it "penultimate" ;-)) version. I imagine the standard LS600HL will have the majority of the options on the LS460L.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Cyclone - I'm inclined to agree with you on price (note my earlier post) but I'm telling you the Lexus name is more golden than I knew so I just have my fears on price. When I say major trips I'm talking 1200 mile vacation drives to South Carolina. I always drive for the simple reason that I stay 1-2 weeks and rather have my own wheels than a rental. We have friends in several places down there and will roam from Wilmington to Pauley's Island several times in a 2 week stay. Typically I stay in North Myrtle. But any shorter stay trip and I'm in the LS. I hit 105 mph and it felt like 55 on I95 in North Carolina a few years ago in my 2001 LS. Since then I set the cruise at 80mph for my own sake.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,292
    I don't think Lexus is going to go off the deep end on pricing of the LS600HL. Yes, I was a bit surprised to see that the fully loaded LS460L is priced at 91K, but let's face it. A lot of this extra cost is due to that ottoman/massaging back seat option. A friend of mine today showed me the detailed specs on the LS460L he is about to get for 78K. This includes the most popular options like the Mark Levinson audio system, navigation, and the new parking assist feature. Thus, the 87-100K+ price range for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense to me.
  • Yes indeed, the jump to $91K is largely due that special order Executive Class seating. Having read extensively about the motors used for the shoulder, shiatsu, etc. massage it has given me the impression that buying that special order is like buying a massage chair, along with the DVD player, tray table, etc etc.

    Lexus evidently wants the high-rollers to pay up some big bucks for that configuration...namely those folks who shell out $5,000+ for First Class airline seats, or even more for private jet expenses, etc. Indeed those who could care less about losing the 5-seat capacity for a 4-seat sybarite's haven.

    IMO, the 5-seat LS 460 L is very nice indeed, and more versatile. I only wish Lexus had done as in the Japan and Europe markets, and offered the RSES as a standalone option. Hopefully the coolbox, basic recline seats are still available--just like the Ultra Luxury version on the LS 430. It would be good to have the LS back seat area continue to have these features in some degree of abundance.
  • ikey78ikey78 Posts: 28
    The $91,000 LWB car with the exec seating package does not include Pre Collision and Radar Cruise control (PS). This is according to the information posted by the JM Lexus Florida dealership on Clublexus. This means that a truly fully loaded LS 460L will sticker in the mid 90K range.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    I tend to agree with you guys on prices - I just want to see it in print. Remember the NY Times and some others have noted prices to $120K and after checking the 7 series last night I couldn't get a 750LI to the price points of the high end LS460L configs. So at $91K Lexus isn't hesitating to blow past BMW prices. My belief remains that we won't see 600HL prices like that because Lexus will bring in a car above that car by 2009 which technically is one year later. Remember the 600HL will have a 2008 designation.

    ikey78 - are we sure that is MSRP or is it a JM asking price? In 2001 some LS430 ultras went $5-10K over sticker at the beginning.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Let's say that the loaded LS460L with PCS comes in at $95K (assuming that's MSRP but it may be an asking price over MSRP) then maybe we can piece together the LS 600HL better.

    See if I miss anything here but the options on the 600HL are:

    A. 4 seat pckge
    B. dynamicr radar cruise (amazing that it's not std)
    C. Lexus Link (I thought it died)
    D. Rear climate seats
    E. Pre-collision
    F. 4 zone climate control

    We already know the 4 seat package is $10K. I'd say that PCS is at least $5K and everything else is $5K for a grand optioning total of $20K excluding anything special like wheels from the dealer. So pick your starting point. Are we $10K,$15K or $20K over the LS460L starting point. Whatever we settle on I'd say 15K of the options are then tied up in the 4 seat package (which most of us won't want) and in the PCS. Lexus Link, Dynamic radar cruise and rear climate seats will likely be standardized options built into every 600HL that ships here. I'd say the 4 seat option is special order and I don't know where they go with PCS.

    What do you guys think?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Just me talking, I'm still not sold on the hybrid technology as being "cost effective". With the premium you have to pay to get one, and the potential savings on gas, it doesn't pencil for at least 200,000 CITY miles, because as you all know, the highway mileage is the same, or worse, as the 460 will be. The impact on the environment is neutral in my mind as well, due to the battery disposal issue. The cost of replacement batteries scares me, and the weight and loss of trunk space doesn't thrill me. I actually got a flat screen TV in my trunk IN THE BOX! The clerk was amazed, as was I.

    I just don't think the hybrid is a long term strategy. I think it's a stop-gap to make us feel better about ourselves. The one plus from my vantage point is the power output is outstanding, but given the other drawbacks, I'd rather have a V-12.
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