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Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    may i ask the details? Options? pricing? timeframe?

    and, to keep it somewhat on topic, why did you decide on a RWD car?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    The 335xi could be the answer to this forum...
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Pretty basic ( for a 335i ) since most of the options i want are included ( sunroof, xenons, logic 7 sterio. ). So i just got metallic paint ( montego blue) and cold weather. I'm paying $900 over euro invoice, or $35340.

    I went with RWD because i think you need snow tires in any case, and i feel that RWD+snows is perfectly adequate, as i'm not climbing icy mountians. IMO DSC keeps you safe, not AWD.

    And, yes, the 335xi may qualify for this topic.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Shipo and other agree with you on the ultimate sports sedan setup with RWD/SP but I beg to differ. AWD on the 3 series is quite a potent handling package and the more I test the limits and learn how to manage the setup, I feel the weight difference but disagree with view that it inhibits control. I actually think the fun factor still exists in this configuration. I would like to know more about the suspension tuning differences.

    I would like to ask the hosts if they can add any light to possibility of a track test of the '06-'07 AWD vs. RWD 3series.

    I see some comparos with the Carrera 4 vs. 4s and others where awd actually outperforms the rwd model.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I don't doubt that the fun factor exists in the AWD 3-er setup, and also that on a tight track AWD might beat RWD because of the ability to get on full power sooner out of a turn. My choice was based on the idea that the RWD setup will be a bit sharper, lighter, and get better MPG, and i've never had a problem getting around with snows. If i had a house on a hill in snow country, i might well choose otherwise. But it's pretty flat and plowed around here.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I see some comparos with the Carrera 4 vs. 4s and others where awd actually outperforms the rwd model.

    It’s hard to compare the Porsches with the 3-series because of the striking difference in weight balance. The 911s are tough to handle in turns as you approach the limits because of its extreme rear weight bias and the AWD mitigates this by putting weight up front. AWD will perform better in corners because of its ability to add pull through them but there is still the weight tradeoff. That extra 242 pounds in the 328i vs 328xi is a lot. The difference in the C2S vs C4S is only 121 pounds and the Porsches weigh considerably less to begin with. But remember, the thing that makes the 911 AWD so desirable to some is the “improved” weight balance and tempering of the oversteer. This is not the case with the BMWs which go from virtually neutral to front bias.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    design,

    you make excellent points as does shipo and habitat. I really want to test the c4s which is possibly ultimate awd at the end of the day. In March I will be all over the 335xi to see the next iteration in turbo dress.

    Just a point, the x-drive and electronic nannys are not intrusive together in this package on the north side of rational driving. The combination really works well, IMO. Wet traction defies logic!

    Regards,
    OW
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    wow. $35k. That's great. Congrats.

    I agree about the options. When I priced one, I believe the only option I found I would really like was the cold weather and smartkey thing. Although metallic paint would probably be on there, too.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • joe131joe131 Posts: 972
    I'd like to start a discusssion on manual transmission cars that can hit about100 MPH in the 1/4 mile. I looked at the website but can't figure out how to start a new one.
    I'm thinking BMW 335i, Mustang GT, Acura TL type S, Infinity G35 and the like with a maximum sticker price of around $50,000. What others are available with manual transmissions (the kind with the clutch pedal on the floor, remember)?
    In the market for one, preferably new '06 or '07. AWD is not a requirement.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I see you figured it out. :)

    Here's a link for the rest of you to join in: Cars? Stick shift and 100 MPH in the 1/4 mile.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Does anyone have an opinion on the ultimate Audi?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We took an S4 cabrio from DC to Philly, and while extremely nice, nothing about it screamed "ultimate".

    RS4 without question.

    -juice
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Thanks juice. The rags say the RS4 is really over the top for this segment since it is probably better than the current/previous M's and price is skyscraper high.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Here's a great example of some of the discusions on AWD and RWD in some of the best sedans around. Enjoy!

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/122116/2007_audi_rs4/

    Regards,
    OW
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Hey, don't offend.

    The S4 is a perfectly "ultimate" machine!

    ;)

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't get me wrong, I've offer one of my kidneys for one of 'em. ;)

    -juice
  • Ultimate Audi?? No contest: R8 :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's not a sedan, though. ;)

    Beautiful car, however. Just the halo Audi needs.

    -juice
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    I believe Audi coming out with a RS6 also. 525-550HP. But there is the weight issue. RS4is heavy also.

    When the 335Xi comes out, this will be BMW's closest shot at this category.

    The Lancer EVO is also a good candidate but I believe the RS4 edges it in a few of the performance categories and the difference in accommodations are worlds apart.

    Regards,
    OW
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    Sorry, but Audi did not invent 4WD or AWD. It was around long before Audi - lots of AWD stuff in WWII and before.............Willy's Jeep springs to mind as a prime example but lots of trucks ran similar systems, incl Land Rover just after WWII. Indeed, Stirling Moss won a Gold Cup race meeting in a 4WD car in 1961, Jensen introduced the FF, ( Ferguson Formula - that's Harry Ferguson as in Massey Ferguson), luxury car in 1966 and the first Range Rover appeared in 1970; but that was just a Landie in a smart suit.

    Audi revolutionised the world of Rallying with their Quattro system and, therefore, are often - and incorrectly - attributed with the invention of 4WD. Well may be the best technical system; I cannot judge but is almost certainly best known car system.

    Just me being an anorak. :)
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    Hey folks, just reading thro' some earlier posts made me want to cry. Here in UK the price for a base Audi A4 Cabrio 1.8T is GBP25995 - that's around USD46k - without any options and not much discount available either. The Audi S6 with the 5.2 Litre V10 starts at GBP56600 or circa USD101k and forget any discount. And, of course we're at least 3000 miles closer to the factory than you guys/gals. Don't even get me onto the almost-USD7 per US Gallon cost of fuel over here, which makes running an S6 a game only for the seriously rich. I'm using USD for $ and GBP for £ 'cos I'm not sure how the system will interpret the symbols.

    No, don't send sympathy - send money. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They may have been the first to mass market an AWD car, though. I never thought of them as a 4WD pioneer.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    AT, I hear ya! I can't believe the price difference. Is it including all taxes or is that list price? Why so different?

    Heck, buy a 335xi (if you want AWD) in the US under ED and ship it back and you will save USDThousands!

    At the same time, purchase an ISO Tanker of fuel in NJ and send back to GB to save even more! (an ISO tanker holds 24,000 liters!).

    Regards,
    OW
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    Those prices are on-the-road incl of all taxes and maybe, if you're lucky, a full tank of fuel.

    Ah, buying a car in USA and shipping is a fine idea, except that the UK auithorities then sting you for Import Duty as it's from outside the EU. Not sure what the rate is, (but it's probably +17.5% VAT as well), but I believe the value used for calculation of Import Duty etc is the UK Customs' valuation. This may, or may not, be the same as the USA Invoice value.............their decision, I think but I'm happy to be corrected. No win.

    As for fuel import for personal use - forget it. When we pay £1 per litre at the pump, approx 72% of that is Duty & Tax. Guess what they'd hit you with at port of entry ? Want to run your diesel on recycled cooking oil ? No problem - provided youe pay the full Duty & Tax same as proper diesel. Do it and son't declare it ? Huge fine if caught.

    In the U.K. the motorist is Public Enemy No. 1

    Sorry, heading for a rant, again. Nearly time to SKYPE my friend in TX and calm down. At least SKYPE is still free. :)
  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 843
    Germans built 4WD vehicles during WWII too. Willis was not the only 4WD vehicle in the military use.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union
    http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM32403
    http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/4/History/

    from last link:
    1902: Spyker featured a 6-cylinder engine and four wheel drive!

    Krzys
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    krzyss, Absolutely agree. 4WD/AWD has been around a long time. Merely mentioned the Jeep as it's the one most most, (younger), folk have heard of/seen but there were, indeed, many more.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "They may have been the first to mass market an AWD car, though. I never thought of them as a 4WD pioneer."

    Hmmm, call me nuts but didn't AMC offer a jacked up "Hi-Rider" version of their butt ugly Eagle sedan with AWD back in the late 1970s? :confuse:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,036
    I think that car was all Jeep CJ-5, underneath.. :surprise:

    So, if you don't mind part-time 4WD with a transfer case, I guess you could call it an AWD sedan.. ;)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    AMC came in the late 80s, but Subaru had a GL wagon with full locking 4WD and a raised suspension way, way back in 1973. They came first by half a decade.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    Eagle was 1980, actually.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

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