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Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,887
    may i ask the details? Options? pricing? timeframe?

    and, to keep it somewhat on topic, why did you decide on a RWD car?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    The 335xi could be the answer to this forum...
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Pretty basic ( for a 335i ) since most of the options i want are included ( sunroof, xenons, logic 7 sterio. ). So i just got metallic paint ( montego blue) and cold weather. I'm paying $900 over euro invoice, or $35340.

    I went with RWD because i think you need snow tires in any case, and i feel that RWD+snows is perfectly adequate, as i'm not climbing icy mountians. IMO DSC keeps you safe, not AWD.

    And, yes, the 335xi may qualify for this topic.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    Shipo and other agree with you on the ultimate sports sedan setup with RWD/SP but I beg to differ. AWD on the 3 series is quite a potent handling package and the more I test the limits and learn how to manage the setup, I feel the weight difference but disagree with view that it inhibits control. I actually think the fun factor still exists in this configuration. I would like to know more about the suspension tuning differences.

    I would like to ask the hosts if they can add any light to possibility of a track test of the '06-'07 AWD vs. RWD 3series.

    I see some comparos with the Carrera 4 vs. 4s and others where awd actually outperforms the rwd model.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I don't doubt that the fun factor exists in the AWD 3-er setup, and also that on a tight track AWD might beat RWD because of the ability to get on full power sooner out of a turn. My choice was based on the idea that the RWD setup will be a bit sharper, lighter, and get better MPG, and i've never had a problem getting around with snows. If i had a house on a hill in snow country, i might well choose otherwise. But it's pretty flat and plowed around here.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I see some comparos with the Carrera 4 vs. 4s and others where awd actually outperforms the rwd model.

    It’s hard to compare the Porsches with the 3-series because of the striking difference in weight balance. The 911s are tough to handle in turns as you approach the limits because of its extreme rear weight bias and the AWD mitigates this by putting weight up front. AWD will perform better in corners because of its ability to add pull through them but there is still the weight tradeoff. That extra 242 pounds in the 328i vs 328xi is a lot. The difference in the C2S vs C4S is only 121 pounds and the Porsches weigh considerably less to begin with. But remember, the thing that makes the 911 AWD so desirable to some is the “improved” weight balance and tempering of the oversteer. This is not the case with the BMWs which go from virtually neutral to front bias.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    design,

    you make excellent points as does shipo and habitat. I really want to test the c4s which is possibly ultimate awd at the end of the day. In March I will be all over the 335xi to see the next iteration in turbo dress.

    Just a point, the x-drive and electronic nannys are not intrusive together in this package on the north side of rational driving. The combination really works well, IMO. Wet traction defies logic!

    Regards,
    OW
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,887
    wow. $35k. That's great. Congrats.

    I agree about the options. When I priced one, I believe the only option I found I would really like was the cold weather and smartkey thing. Although metallic paint would probably be on there, too.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • joe131joe131 Posts: 971
    I'd like to start a discusssion on manual transmission cars that can hit about100 MPH in the 1/4 mile. I looked at the website but can't figure out how to start a new one.
    I'm thinking BMW 335i, Mustang GT, Acura TL type S, Infinity G35 and the like with a maximum sticker price of around $50,000. What others are available with manual transmissions (the kind with the clutch pedal on the floor, remember)?
    In the market for one, preferably new '06 or '07. AWD is not a requirement.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I see you figured it out. :)

    Here's a link for the rest of you to join in: Cars? Stick shift and 100 MPH in the 1/4 mile.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    Does anyone have an opinion on the ultimate Audi?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We took an S4 cabrio from DC to Philly, and while extremely nice, nothing about it screamed "ultimate".

    RS4 without question.

    -juice
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    Thanks juice. The rags say the RS4 is really over the top for this segment since it is probably better than the current/previous M's and price is skyscraper high.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    Here's a great example of some of the discusions on AWD and RWD in some of the best sedans around. Enjoy!

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/122116/2007_audi_rs4/

    Regards,
    OW
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Hey, don't offend.

    The S4 is a perfectly "ultimate" machine!

    ;)

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't get me wrong, I've offer one of my kidneys for one of 'em. ;)

    -juice
  • Ultimate Audi?? No contest: R8 :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's not a sedan, though. ;)

    Beautiful car, however. Just the halo Audi needs.

    -juice
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    I believe Audi coming out with a RS6 also. 525-550HP. But there is the weight issue. RS4is heavy also.

    When the 335Xi comes out, this will be BMW's closest shot at this category.

    The Lancer EVO is also a good candidate but I believe the RS4 edges it in a few of the performance categories and the difference in accommodations are worlds apart.

    Regards,
    OW
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    Sorry, but Audi did not invent 4WD or AWD. It was around long before Audi - lots of AWD stuff in WWII and before.............Willy's Jeep springs to mind as a prime example but lots of trucks ran similar systems, incl Land Rover just after WWII. Indeed, Stirling Moss won a Gold Cup race meeting in a 4WD car in 1961, Jensen introduced the FF, ( Ferguson Formula - that's Harry Ferguson as in Massey Ferguson), luxury car in 1966 and the first Range Rover appeared in 1970; but that was just a Landie in a smart suit.

    Audi revolutionised the world of Rallying with their Quattro system and, therefore, are often - and incorrectly - attributed with the invention of 4WD. Well may be the best technical system; I cannot judge but is almost certainly best known car system.

    Just me being an anorak. :)
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