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Buick Lucerne



  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I just do not see that many blue lights out there. In my neck of the wood most cars are almost brand new and lots of them expensive BMW's and MB's. Seems like 1 out of 30 have blue lights as I drive around. Which competitors with Lucerne have them as standard?

    Looks like you have to pay about $35000 at BMW to get HID high beams?
  • I have a Lucerne on order with a SF Bay Area dealer who is selling me the car at $500 BELOW invoice (invoice matches what all pricing sources state). Dealer says that there is some kind of a 500 cash-back incentive. I have had prior experience with this dealer with a 04 Pontiac Grand Prix which I also bought at a good price. Don't know how he does it, but I don't ask a lot of questions at these prices.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Properly aimed and functioning HID's are far less onerous to oncoming traffic than the run-of-the-mill halogen headlamps which are almost invariably badly aimed and virtually uniformly subject to light pattern scatter.

    HID's are to halogens what halogens were to tungsten filament lighting from the 60's and 70's. They will be the norm in all cars in due time as their price drops as a consequence of the economies of volume.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Virtually all the higher end automobile makers offer HID lights as standard or at least optional equipment. A number of cars in the Lucerne CXS price range have them standard such as the Acura TL and in Canada even the Kia Amanti has Xenon HID's as standard equipment.

    To be a player in this niche GM should at least offer them on the CXS as an option. Nowadays people are not simply looking for their money's worth in a car; they are now looking for more than their money's worth. GM has a deep hole to crawl out of competition-wise and if their offerings are not absolutely top-of-the-line in technology, quality, and options availability, they don't stand much of a chance. They clearly dropped the ball in failing to offer HID's on the CXS.
  • dandydon2dandydon2 Posts: 77
    Buying a new Lucerne today at $500 below invoice seems incredible to me. Per there are no customer cash rebates, incentives, special lease terms or marketing support available at this time. The site mentions a $500 rebate for active duty personnel, but shows that it is not available for Lucerne. If I may ask, what was the MSRP (not including shipping charge) and the net price you paid before taxes and registration?
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    Have you actually seen the headlights in operation? I find them to be extremely bright.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    I know. But I'm not too thrilled w/ GM right now. Was told of this feature several months before car came out, and it didn't have it. Salesmen and mechanics knew nothing about it. Just as irritating, the sticker price was almost $2,000 higher than they now have as sticker - GM lowered it in early January. Seems that the earlier you bought, the worse GM treated the buyer.

    Car itself is great, however.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    If that's the difference between buying and not buying from GM, there never really was a chance that that person was going to buy one from GM because they already have a bias that would be nearly impossible to overcome.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    Seems that the earlier you bought, the worse GM treated the buyer.

    Not always. I wouldn't buy the Bonneville I bought in late 2001 right before it was phased out a few months ago. Its price crept to a price level where it was out classed by similarly priced competition.
  • I think the 500 back may be a dealership thing, not a Buick sponsored rebate. Again, I did not ask for an explanation, just said "OK". I have the order sheet, which is from the GM order program (GM AutoBook), and all prices, MSRP and Invoice, match exactly with publicized numbers. The Lucerne I ordered is a CXL V8, pretty-well loaded and with premium paint. Its MSRP is 34665, Invoice 32260.68, and my net price 31760.68. These numbers all include the Destination Charge of 725, but not tax and license.
    The other unusual thing about this deal is that I did not have to negotiate one iota to get this price. I simply called into the Dealer's Internet Sales Rep (listed on the Buick and GM BuyPower websites), said I was interested in ordering a Lucerne with so-and-so options, and what would be the price? After some iteration with the GM order program to ensure that we had the correct set of options, he gave me the price as 500 below invoice. Done deal.
    Again, I had prior experience with this dealer when I bought a Pontiac GP there 2 years ago. However, in that case I went through Even then I got what seemed to be a very good deal. But considering that CarsDirect had to get something out of the deal, I didn't know how good it could be by going straight in as I did this time.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    I was speaking specifically of the Lucerne. Sorry for any confusion I caused there. All I know is that if I'd buy it now, instead of in December, I'd get more car for about $2,000 less.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,760
    ???c/o vehicle.????

    Time for a definition please.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Sorry, carry over vehicle. Should have said past models which would have been the Lesabre and Park Avenue which were mainly bench seats. I do not have the numbers anymore but I would guess they both had about 90% bench seats (non buckets).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,760
    I believe the divided 60/40? seats with armrest folddown were standard and the 40/20/40? with a large console with cubbies and platforms oriented toward business users was an option IIRC. I assume the same was true in PAs.

    Bench seats were very comfortable. I personally dislike mandatory bucket seats. If I wanted that choice I'd buy another Mustang (I owned two).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Yes but you are in the minority now. There are very few cars that offer bench type seats. I can name 3 GM's-LaCrosse, Lucerne and Impala. And they are actually bucket seats with a seat/console in the center. The Avalon gave up a few years ago. The Ford 500 does not offer. Crown Victoria is standard with bench type.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I agree that HIDs should be available on the Lucerne but they are not a critical safety feature. If they were they would be standard instead of optional on most luxury cars. HIDs arent even standard on cars like the STS or E class. They are a nice feature to have but unless you live in the boondocks they arent going to make much of a difference. The lucerne should offer them simply because other cars in it's class offer them. That said GM is interested in keeping some type of separation between Cadillac and Buick. If the Lucerne offered every feature the DTS offers for less money no one would buy the Caddy.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    If the Lucerne offered every feature the DTS offers for less money no one would buy the Caddy.

    Does the availability of HID headlights on the Nissan Maxima for thousands less mean no one buys the Infiniti? I think not.

    The issue of HID headlights is not merely a "nice" feature. They are a critical safety feature. They do not simply provide brighter, more natural light (more like daylight and less like yellowish-orange light), they provide a wider, uniform beam which far better illuminates both the outside of the road and the inside, right and left, than do old timey halogens, their gross superiority over which has not quite yet caught up with market consciousness. In time, they will be looked upon as essential safety equipment, the same as airbags and door side intrusion beams are now. Is it not more important to prevent an accident than to survive it?
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    You are greatly overstating the significance, as most accidents that occur at night don't happen when you hit something that was dark. And the fact that those lights do tend to distract oncoming drivers certainly leads to an argument against their safety. As I've said before, if your decision is based on the headlights, you're looking for an excuse not to buy it, especially if you haven't driven the car to evaluate the lights.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,760
    >The issue of HID headlights is not merely a "nice" feature. They are a critical safety feature.

    I agree they are a safety factor but in the negative. They blind on-coming drivers with their glare as the car's angle change up and down causing extra bright glare in other driver's eyes and then dropping in brightness after the pupils have constricted.

    They need to be banned along with the malaligned "fog" lights that are on many cars and are badly adjusted as if they actually helped visibility at all.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    I agree they are a safety factor but in the negative. They blind on-coming drivers with their glare as the car's angle change up and down causing extra bright glare in other driver's eyes and then dropping in brightness after the pupils have constricted.

    They need to be banned along with the malaligned "fog" lights that are on many cars and are badly adjusted as if they actually helped visibility at all.

    Utterly ridiculous and emotional statements exactly parallel to the sorts of things stated about halogens at the time of transition to them from the then conventional incandescent lights. Properly functioning HID's are substantially less "blinding" to oncoming drivers than conventional halogens or fog lights which are almost invariably improperly aimed and even when not improperly aimed are more subject to light scatter compared to the HID's which have mechanisms in place to make sure the lights are not aimed too high for the specific purpose of not blinding oncoming drivers. Why do you think the popularity of HID's is increasing worldwide, because they are dangerous??!

    I personally live in an area where there are many HID's on oncoming cars and I find them considerably less hard on the eyes than halogens. I would not buy another new car without them.

    But don't take my word for it. The Journal of the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America in its Volume I Number 4 April 2005 issue published an article in which it was concluded that " . . . the photometric performance of the current HID low beams is superior to that of the current tungsten-halogen low beams."

    They produce less eyestrain while providing greater visibility and at reduced energy consumption than halogens and are objectively clearly the next logical progression of the automotive lighting continuum and are generally considered in all ways superior to halogens except for cost. Which is why the Buick Lucerne does not have them. If GM is going to outcompete the competition, they need to get with the program rather than hawking the technology of yesteryear to the biased and the misinformed. If I can buy a car with HID lights for the same or lower price than a car like the Lucerne CXS, I will go for the former every time. Quite frankly, even if the HID's were on a car that cost more than the Lucerne, they are worth the price. But when the car actually costs less, such as in the case of the Nissan Maxima or Acura TL or Lincoln Zephyr, all three of which have the HID's either standard or at least available, the Lucerne is simply not on the playing field.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    PLEASE give it up. The Lucerne does not have HID. Do not buy it if you care that much. Right now the Lucerne is the 2nd hottest car at GM.

    I will say the NHSTA is investigating the HID's right now for blinding oncoming cars. I really doubt anything will happen though.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    The so called bench seat in the Lucerne is of no use to a third passenger, but it does have one advantage: the arm rest between the seats is better placed than in the bucket models where it is too far back. Also, if you like to spread your legs horizontally while driving, the bench has more space. I guess that makes two advantages. Of course, the bucket, floor shifter models look more modern.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    I can't see how the cars going down the road with blue lights can all be aimed wrong? In Illinois these headlights are illegal and I have read of beemers (BMW) owners getting tickets from the state police.

    I hear that cheap painted bulbs sold in stores are part of the problem with these kids putting them in there compact cars and cruising along without a clue.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,760
    >Utterly ridiculous and emotional statements

    I beg your pardon.

    >They produce less eyestrain while providing greater visibility and at reduced energy consumption than halogens and ar

    Less eyestrain for the driver of the car but not the case for the oncoming driver as the car's angle changes or they're not properly aimed downward enough!!! They get blinded and then the brightness drops and then rises again as the car bounces.
  • rake2rake2 Posts: 120
    Thank you for proving your bias.
  • finfin atlantaPosts: 589
    The problem with HID lights has little to do with Lucerne and a lot to do with the light mounting, curving, bumpy and narrow roads and the eyes of the oncoming driver.

    Yes, HID's put out over twice the light of halogens and look more blue than white or yellow. Properly aimed, they improve things for the driver. But the sheer brightness and the dark/light contrast are distracting to oncoming traffic. These lights are also very hard on the eyes of most people over 50 years old (like me) due to the eye aging process.

    It will be several years, and probably require several changes to the standards for HID lights, before anyone can prove the safe/unsafe factor. They are too new and to few at this point in American driving. Europe has different roads, roadsigns, lighting standards, etc., so a comparison will not work here.

    Bottom line: Today, HID's are no reason to buy, or not buy, any car. But it would be good for GM if Lucerne made them optional to appeal to a wider market. The Lucerne is still on my short list....
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    I also would much prefer the 40-20-40 seats, as I am looking at a Lucerne for business use, and could keep a small box of hanging file folders in a handy location in front by removing the bottom cushion of the middle 20% seat section.

    However, the CXS has so many other things which are not available on the CXL V8 (4-way lumbar support, fog lights, turn signal mirrors, 18" wheels, magnetic ride control, and chrome exhaust outlets), I am focusing on it. Too bad that GM does not offer the 40-20-40 seat on the CXS, as it would cost them nothing to do so (in fact, they would make a bit more profit from the cars ordered with it, as it is an extra cost option).

    Interior storage does seem to be a weak point on the Lucerne. Compare it with a Montego / Five Hundred which has large door pockets with bottle holders, and a nice storage compartment on top of the dashboard. The rear seat back does not fold, a significant oversight on a car as expensive as a Lucerne.

    Also, HID head lights and LED tail lights are standard on the Montego, and should also be standard on the significantly more expensive Lucerne, especially the CXS.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,760
    I have had 3 LeSabres, predecessor to the Lucerne, and have never once wished I had a folding rear seatback. I do find the armrest pass-through to the trunk has been used twice in 3 years.

    I never cease to be amazed at the criticism some will give on a car for its lack of a particular, small market-if any market, option, especially if it's an American brand car.

    I notice my LeSabres have all had reclining front seats, a great option. They have had a large trunk for carrying "things." There are many other features standard that I probably won't get on a lesser car if I purchase one, new or used, next. E.g., a glove box light that turns off and on with the glovebox door-Accords have a light that's on only when the headlights are on and that's all the time. Turn the headlights on at night and the glovebox light is on whether you open it or not.

    HID headlights are offensive to oncoming drivers because of the extreme brightness and the differential in the brightness as the car dips and changes angle relative to the oncoming driver's eyes. The headlights on my 03 LeSabre are more than adequate for driving 99% of the time. Other times I use the high beams.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My car, a FWD Seville, has projector beams for the low beams (or I think that is what they are. Anyway, they cut off the light so that when aimed properly, light on low beam does not shine into the on-coming cars windshield. I can tell when I drive over bridges or even shining on the walls in the garage. I would hope that HID lights are designed in a similar fashion.
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