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MazdaSpeed3: Styling Impressions

callmedrfillcallmedrfill Posts: 729
edited March 7 in Mazda
 

   After having driven the new Mazda 3 and seen reviews, I want to hear speculation on it's future cousing, the MazdaSpeed 3. This car the (3s sedan) is probably the closest facsimile to the 325i I have yet seen, in looks, size, poise, and handling. Very refined, similar dash to BMW, good smooth power but you could tell this car is planted! Very impressive.

 

   What I loved was that it was so quiet and the power wasn't peaky (Honda) or loud (Corolla XRS) that it moved like a car with a larger engine. Which it does have, with 2.3 liters compared to the comps' 1.8-2.2 engines. My question is can the (ancient) Duartec V6 fit in the 3?

 

   The power is right on the competition (220HP vs. SRT-4 230HP, Cobalt 205, XRS 170HP, WRX 227) A V6 would offer a nice marketing advantage. And I doubt Mazda will spend the coin to make 2 seperate super-4 engines of different size and strength for the 6 and 3.

 

   

  So what's the story?

 

  DrFill
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Comments

  • ambullambull Posts: 255
    The MazdaSpeed 3 will use a detuned version of the turbocharged 4-cyl engine soon to be seen in the MazdaSpeed 6. It is not that difficult to modify that engine. I don't think the Duratec V6 would fit in the 3's engine bay. Even if it did, it's heavy enough to throw off the Front/Rear balance and adversely affect handling.

    It is supposed to be FWD, not AWD as in the MS6.

    Also, I think it will debut in 2006, not 2007.
  • That could offset the weight gained up front. That would be be quite a tune-down! 40-50HP?

     

      I believe that if Audi can fit a 4.2 liter V8 in an A4 (not much bigger than a Mazda3, but bigger), Mazda can make a small six work.

     

      Expect the unexpected from Mazda.

     

       

    ' DrFill
  • The title of this discussion has been changed, since there's no known date for release of an updated 3.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • Probably wouldn't need to reduce power by that much. It would be the same 2.3l-Turbo engine (with upgraded rods, etc) that's in the Mazdaspeed6. We know the engine can handle 274hp (Mazdaspeed says more).

    However, in a lighter vehicle, without AWD, the problem is putting the power down. It they add a limited-slip differential, and some suspension mods, the power reduction can probably stay somewhere around 250...right on par with the latest SRT-4. Too bad the price will be much more than the SRT-4.
  • big_guybig_guy Posts: 372
    I had heard that they were going to turbo charge the 2.0L engine from the base Mazda3 for use in the Mazdaspeed Mazda3 :confuse: ... of course everything is just speculation and rumour at this time.
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    In case you did not spot this Edmunds article here is the news (not rumour) to make us all salivate! :)

    Mazda Gets Ready to Launch 256-horsepower "Hot Hatch" Version of 3
    Date Posted 04-20-2005

    HIROSHIMA, Japan — Mazda is readying a 'hot hatch' version of the Mazda3 — and we're talking jalapeño! The 3 MPS (Mazda Performance Series) uses the same 2.3-liter engine as the bigger 6 MPS, and this could make the car the hottest hatch on the market.

    The 6 MPS puts out 256 horsepower — way more than the VW Golf GTI (197 hp) or the forthcoming Opel/Vauxhall Astra VXR (237 hp). This should give the 3 MPS a 0-to-60 mph time of below 7 seconds — blistering performance.

    The 3 MPS will debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September and will go on sale shortly after. Its aggressive styling affirms Mazda is quickly shaking off its fuddy-duddy image, helped by the RX-8 and MX-5 sports cars.
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    I hope Mazda doesn't detune the 2.3 just for the sake of keeping the mazdaspeed6 "more powerful" and therefore higher on the hierarchy. I hate when manufacturers do that.
  • kronogoosekronogoose Posts: 116
    When I first heard about the Mazdaspeed3, it was listed as having 220 HP. That would be fine with me, it will still compete with the WRX and SRT4. Don't get me wrong, though; I would love to see 256 HP on the 3!

    Considering Mazda's mis-statement of RX-8's horsepower and the delays in getting the Mazdaspeed6 to market, I'm taking a "believe it when I see it approach."

    Is there any interest in the Mazdaspeed6? Am I the only one put off and disappointed by the unexplained delays?
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    kronogoose said: Is there any interest in the Mazdaspeed6? Am I the only one put off and disappointed by the unexplained delays?

    Do you know whether it was to be built in the Hofu factory in Hiroshima which was damaged by fire a few months ago? That might explain some of the delay.
  • qddaveqddave Posts: 164
    I heard from my dealer that they delayed it because of insufficient launch resources. Mazda's launching the MX-5 and the MX-CrossSport (9?), not to mention a refresh of the 6 and obviously working on the Mazdaspeed3. I heard rumblings of the RX-7 as well. That's a lot of programs. Although, I also have this feeling that they went back to the drawing board to find a few more ponies under the Mazdaspeed6's hood to keep up with the competition.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    The delay is related to quality control and fixing some bugs before shipping the car.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Don't forget they're also launching the Mazda5 this summer!

    Meade
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    They should fix a lot of things before releasing it. From what I've read in reviews the MS6 is pretty disappointing. Heavy, pretty slow, weird handling (AWD doesn't push the majority of power to the rear...what the blazes?!).

    The Mazdaspeed3 could be a nice competitor to the Audi A3 (at least for me).
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    Where did you see a review of the Mazdaspeed 6?
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    Does anyone have information about the approximate price of the upcoming Mazdaspeed 3? It's likely that it would be priced higher than the Mazda 3 SP23 edition, but would it be +10%, +20% or (gasp) more?

    Also, what would you consider to be the major selling feature? Is it the increased horsepower or is it the "package"? The SP23 looks like a neat package but with the same 160 hp engine of the s model. Is the Mazdaspeed 3 be an SP23 with a turbo?

    Also, to which cars would you compare the Mazdaspeed 3. Is it in the Subaru WRX and Acura RSX Type S league or somewhere else? This league is much pricier than the current Mazda3 lineup but, I find, Mazda quite often offers more value than its competition.

    My take: if the Mazdaspeed 3 offered the perfomance quoted in the media (200+hp) and was priced under a Subaru WRX or Acura RSX Type S, this could be a very hot product.
  • biggus3biggus3 Posts: 32
    It is most likely going to be more than an SP23 with a turbo. Every mazdaspeed product released to date has had some suspension work. I dont see any way that this will be any different.

    As for the competition, the WRX may be a strech. Most reports about the mazdaspeed3 say FWD. This will be a setback if you are cross shopping the two cars since the power numbers should be the same. If I were to give competitors, I would say the RSX Type S, GTI, SRT-4, and as a bit of a stretch the Cooper S.
  • gib11gib11 Posts: 47
    A review dating from 2-2005 "Le Monde de l'Auto"in Canada states (I translate):
    Beside's the back seats that dont fold no more, the MSP6 show's conviviality and good manners for the whole public. Hable to show performances reserved for more tuned sports cars, the MSP6 can perform remarquably well... available probably this summer at a base price of 35,000.$... Real good deal!"
    4stars out of 5stars
    0-100km/h = 6,6sec.
    4c. 2,3lter ID, turbo
    274hp at 5500 rpm
    280p.f torque at 3000rpm
    fuel consumption 8,8l/100km

    some other comments:
    "at 100km/h (62mph) the motor seems to be relaxing at 2,300rpm"
    "It can go from 80 to 120km/h in 5,3 seconds"
    "much of the power is gain between 2,500 and 4,500rpm, in third gear, you can easely accelerate from 60 to 100"
    "red line starts at 7000rpm"
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    Here is a list of some contenders to the future Mazdaspeed3.

    4 cylinder contenders (in price order)
    Mazda 3 s
    U$18.7; 2.3 L ; 4 cyl. ; 5 speed; 160 hp ; 150 ft. lb. ; weight = 2826 ; EPA= 25 / 32
    Mini Cooper Type S
    U$20.4; 1.6 L ; 4 cyl. ; 6 speed; 168 hp ; 162 ft. lb. ; weight = 2679 ; EPA= 25 / 32
    Neon SRT 4
    U$20.6; 2.3 L ; 4 cyl. ; 6 speed; 220 hp ; 245 ft. lb. ; weight = 2900 ; EPA= 22 / 30
    Mazda 6 i
    U$21.5; 2.3 L ; 4 cyl. ; 5 speed; 160 hp ; 155 ft. lb. ; weight = 3102 ; EPA= 23 / 31
    Acura RSX Type S
    U$23.7; 2.0 L ; 4 cyl. ; 6 speed; 200 hp ; 143 ft. lb. ; weight = 2840 ; EPA= 23 / 31
    Mazdaspeed 6 (for comparison)
    U$28.0; 2.3 L ; 4 cyl. ; 6 speed; 274 hp ; 280 ft. lb. ; weight = 3589 ; EPA= 20 / 26

    6 cylinder contender
    Volkswagen GTI
    U$22.3; 2.3 L ; 6 cyl. ; 6 speed; 200 hp ; 195 ft. lb. ; weight = 3036 ; EPA= 21 / 30

    If the Mazdaspeed3 gets approximately 220hp and 200 ft lbs.of torque, weighs under 3000# and sells for under U$23K this will be quite a package. :) The information is derived from Edmunds.
  • biggus3biggus3 Posts: 32
    Mazda has said 250hp.

    There is no way the Mazdaspeed3 will compete with the Mazda6i. The 6i is much slower and much larger than the Mazdaspeed3.
  • nitionnition Posts: 3
    Where do i find information on the Mazda3speed because i am a big fan of mazda and i just dont know anything about it :confuse:
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This discussion has been closed.